Musk Mulls Sending All Americans $5,000 Checks Using DOGE Savings

Libhater said:
I'm referring to the 471% bulk of American workers who make between 40,000 and 50,000 a year who pay zero income taxes.
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Oh I see, you had to massage the data to get it to work out. :laugh:

The assertion made was that of ALL Americans, only half pay taxes.
volsrocks said:
Almost half of Americans don't pay a cent in income tax
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I specifically asked for proof that half of working age, healthy Americans pay no tax. Because we don't expect the disabled, children or students, the infirm, the elderly poor to pay taxes.

Using "households" as the metric does not answer the question.

Many "households" are residences for the disabled, college students, the infirm, the elderly poor.

So the number of healthy, working age Americans paying taxes is substantially higher than 60 percent
 
Damocles said:
Pretending that there is no waste or fraud in government takes a solid imagination. Whether you want to believe that some will be found or not, there will be. You can imagine a world in which millions of humans are perfect because they work in government, I prefer to understand that even if it is only accidental humans suck at this.
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Way too many assumptions there, Damo. Oh, I have no doubt at all that there isn't waste and fraud in the govt. I worked 3 years in the mid 80s as a clerical employee for a large defense contractor that is now part of Boeing. I saw what went on first hand, and that was just a tiny cog in a huge, huge wheel.

But the way to find fraud and waste is not to raze the forest for the sake of one dead tree, as someone else here pointed out. Medicare has a successful program that rewards whistleblowers with a percentage of what is recovered if they report fraud. Why not offer a similar program to all govt. employees and departments? Managers will clean up their depts. for fear of being caught and fired/prosecuted. Employees will be protected from retribution for reporting. No new people need to be hired to do oversight.

Speaking of retribution, this whole DOGE things smacks of it. Trump is on a Vengeance Tour and is targeting those who he thinks were "persecuting" him. I'd bet you $50 that federal employees' social media posts and emails and other public speech is being scrutinized for anti-Trump comments.
 
Uncensored2008 said:
So he's only quintupled his wealth by taking a job with a LOWER salary.

Amazing how those in congress make less than I do, but amass millions per year - with the full approval of the mindless drones of the hive.
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It's funny how your math works. Someone whose net worth goes up by one million dollars over 5 years is amassing millions per year.
Do you realize how stupid that makes you look?
 
Damocles said:
Pretending that there is no waste or fraud in government takes a solid imagination. Whether you want to believe that some will be found or not, there will be. You can imagine a world in which millions of humans are perfect because they work in government, I prefer to understand that even if it is only accidental humans suck at this.
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Pretending that DOGE is finding waste or fraud takes an even bigger imagination. They certainly won't be saving money based on what they are cancelling. They started cancelling government contracts with Thompson Reuters Westlaw which anyone with a little knowledge of law knows is the law library and research tool used by almost every lawyer. Basically, they are making it impossible for government lawyers to do their jobs and setting it up for Trump to lose every case that requires court filings.

Then the largest cancellations seem to be to news services. Why would employees need to know what is going on in the world to do their job? That just seems silly. They don't need to know that there is a hurricane in the gulf that might hit land if they work for FEMA. They don't need to know about the energy policy of Brazil if they work for the Dept of Energy. Information is SO overrated. :unsure:
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Way too many assumptions there, Damo. Oh, I have no doubt at all that there isn't waste and fraud in the govt. I worked 3 years in the mid 80s as a clerical employee for a large defense contractor that is now part of Boeing. I saw what went on first hand, and that was just a tiny cog in a huge, huge wheel.

But the way to find fraud and waste is not to raze the forest for the sake of one dead tree, as someone else here pointed out. Medicare has a successful program that rewards whistleblowers with a percentage of what is recovered if they report fraud. Why not offer a similar program to all govt. employees and departments? Managers will clean up their depts. for fear of being caught and fired/prosecuted. Employees will be protected from retribution for reporting. No new people need to be hired to do oversight.

Speaking of retribution, this whole DOGE things smacks of it. Trump is on a Vengeance Tour and is targeting those who he thinks were "persecuting" him. I'd bet you $50 that federal employees' social media posts and emails and other public speech is being scrutinized for anti-Trump comments.
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I do not believe that they are assumptions, I believe that we have evidence of such things in the past, and assuming current perfection and disregarding past information is absurdly obtuse. I believe government waste is common knowledge rather than assumption.

What I also know, 70% of Americans polled believe that Trump is doing what he said he would do. This does mean that even some of you crazy leftists believe it and are willing to tell a pollster about it, even though you are embarrassed to say it here.

Trump's polling is higher than ever, it isn't because they think cutting government waste and fraud is a bad thing.
 
Uncensored2008 said:
We would not want to tax wealth. Neither would we seek to tax income.

Direct taxation is inherently corrupt. Direct taxation cannot be anonymous, hence it will by nature be crafted to benefit certain individuals at the expense of others. This breeds corruption, as those with the means to bribe those controlling the tax code will do so. As long as the tax collector knows who the taxpayer is, there will be corruption.

Indirect taxes, tarifs, sales, and use taxes stop this. No one knows who the taxpayer is because the transaction is taxed rather than the individual. The opportunity for graft is destroyed.

In 2018, our tax code was over 9,000 pages long, due to loopholes and exemptions that were bought from politicians over the preceding 100 years.

To the credit of Donald Trump and the Republicans, it is now 2,652 long. Cutting out three quarters of the graft and corruption is commendable, but not enough. The tax code should not be in excess of 10 pages. With indirect taxation it would have no need to be. True, Joe Biden would have not been able to get 5 mansions without the ability to sell favors, but that is a feature, not a bug.
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Taxation is theft. Fund the government with tariffs and fees.
 
Suddenly the concern for the federal debt vanishes without a peep.

Replaced with: "Screw the federal debt. We don't care about that. Let's buy off the voters."
 
Cypress said:
Oh I see, you had to massage the data to get it to work out. :laugh:

The assertion made was that of ALL Americans, only half pay taxes.

I specifically asked for proof that half of working age, healthy Americans pay no tax. Because we don't expect the disabled, children or students, the infirm, the elderly poor to pay taxes.

Using "households" as the metric does not answer the question.

Many "households" are residences for the disabled, college students, the infirm, the elderly poor.

So the number of healthy, working age Americans paying taxes is substantially higher than 60 percent
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I didn't massage the data as it is clearly in the original link. You libs will continue to complain that the rich need to pay their fair share of taxes,
when in reality they're already paying some 70-90% of all taxes. Don't have the exact figure in front of me, but that 70-90% that the rich pay in
all of America's taxes is quite a lot more than almost half of the workers paying zero in taxes, wouldn't you agree?
 
Nordberg said:
You really are a lost soul. That of course falls on those without power, the masses wiykld pay, In Trump's ear? Trump is on the golf course. Musk has control.
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