Musk Mulls Sending All Americans $5,000 Checks Using DOGE Savings

Diogenes said:
There are instances where ultra-wealthy individuals have paid little to no federal income tax in specific years.

A notable example comes from ProPublica’s 2021 analysis of leaked IRS data, covering tax returns from 2004 to 2018.

They found Jeff Bezos paid no federal income tax in 2007 and 2011, and Elon Musk paid none in 2018.

How? The tax code taxes income, not wealth.

If a rich person’s income (wages, dividends, realized capital gains) is low or offset in a given year, their tax bill can shrink, or disappear. Bezos, for instance, reportedly claimed a $4,000 child tax credit in 2011 and offset income with business losses, while Musk’s 2018 return showed minimal taxable income despite his massive wealth tied up in unrealized stock gains.

The mechanisms here are legal and built into the tax code:
  1. Capital Gains Timing: Wealthy individuals often hold assets like stocks or real estate that appreciate but aren’t taxed until sold. No sale, no taxable income. ProPublica calculated a "true tax rate" (taxes paid divided by wealth growth) for the top 25 richest Americans, finding it averaged 3.4% from 2014–2018, far below statutory rates, because unrealized gains dominate their wealth growth.
  2. Deductions and Losses: The rich can use losses from businesses or investments to offset income. Real estate moguls, for example, leverage depreciation (a non-cash expense) to reduce taxable income. Donald Trump’s leaked 2005 return showed a $916 million loss carryforward, which could wipe out years of tax liability.
  3. Borrowing Against Assets: Billionaires often borrow against their stock portfolios instead of selling them. Loans aren’t taxable income. Warren Buffett, whose tax rate was famously lower than his secretary’s in 2011 (17.4% vs. 35.8%), has admitted to this strategy—his wealth grows, but his taxable income stays modest.
  4. Charitable Deductions: Donating appreciated assets (like stock) to charities avoids capital gains taxes and provides a deduction, shrinking taxable income further.
But does this mean all rich people pay nothing?

No.

IRS data for 2021 shows the top 1% (AGI above $561,000) paid an average federal income tax rate of 25.9%, and the top 0.001% (AGI over $77 million) paid 23.1%.

Zero-tax years are outliers, not the norm.

Even ProPublica’s data showed that over the 15-year span, these billionaires paid some tax—just not always in proportion to their wealth growth.

For example, Warren Buffett paid $23.7 million from 2014–2018, but his wealth grew by $24.3 billion, making his tax burden look negligible by comparison.

The tax code’s complexity lets the ultra-rich minimize liability, sometimes to zero in a given year, especially if they’re asset-rich but income-light.

However, "paying nothing" isn’t a widespread dodge for the merely "rich" (say, top 5% or 10%).

It’s more common among the top 0.01%, who have the resources to exploit these provisions. Legislative attempts like the 2021 Build Back Better proposal included a "billionaires’ tax" on unrealized gains to close this gap, but it didn’t pass. As of February 20, 2025, no major overhaul has yet eliminated these strategies.

So, yes, some of the richest have used the tax code to pay nothing in specific years—legally, through planning and loopholes. It’s not fiction, but it’s not every rich person, every year.


@Doge
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We would not want to tax wealth. Neither would we seek to tax income.

Direct taxation is inherently corrupt. Direct taxation cannot be anonymous, hence it will by nature be crafted to benefit certain individuals at the expense of others. This breeds corruption, as those with the means to bribe those controlling the tax code will do so. As long as the tax collector knows who the taxpayer is, there will be corruption.

Indirect taxes, tarifs, sales, and use taxes stop this. No one knows who the taxpayer is because the transaction is taxed rather than the individual. The opportunity for graft is destroyed.

In 2018, our tax code was over 9,000 pages long, due to loopholes and exemptions that were bought from politicians over the preceding 100 years.

To the credit of Donald Trump and the Republicans, it is now 2,652 long. Cutting out three quarters of the graft and corruption is commendable, but not enough. The tax code should not be in excess of 10 pages. With indirect taxation it would have no need to be. True, Joe Biden would have not been able to get 5 mansions without the ability to sell favors, but that is a feature, not a bug.
 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
This must be RW DEI. Claim a black man has more net worth than he actually does so they can accuse him of crimes.

As of 2025, Hakeem Jeffries’ estimated net worth is $1.5 million to $2 million, based on publicly available financial disclosures and asset reports.
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So he's only quintupled his wealth by taking a job with a LOWER salary.

Amazing how those in congress make less than I do, but amass millions per year - with the full approval of the mindless drones of the hive.
 
FastLane said:
I'd rather that they pay it on the debt. We are putting our kids and grand kids in debt for OUR spending it is only fair that the money goes to pay down the debt. But if they decide to send me a check I'll deposition in my grand kids trust funds.
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What? You're against placating the population with panem et circenses? They're going to take your MAGAT card if you keep talking like that. lol
 
Cypress said:
Post a reputable link proving that 50% of healthy, working age Americans pay no tax. Heard it from Rush Limbaugh?

We've never expected children, students, the disabled, the infirm, the elderly poor to pay taxes.
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That 50% of working age Americans paying no tax is off by a mere 3% or so.

www.statista.com

Households paying no income tax by income level U.S. 2022 | Statista

In total, about 59.9 percent of U.S.
www.statista.com www.statista.com

In the link provided it says that about 47.1% of U.S. households with an income between 40,000 and 50,000 U.S. dollars paid no individual income taxes.
 
Cypress said:
Post a reputable link proving that 50% of healthy, working age Americans pay no tax. Heard it from Rush Limbaugh?

We've never expected children, students, the disabled, the infirm, the elderly poor to pay taxes.
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Rush Limbaugh died many years ago Comrade. Remember? You danced on his grave.

59.3% of American adults file federal income tax returns.

11.4% receive refunds that are 100% or greater of the taxes paid in.

47.9% of adults pay all federal income taxes.

www.pewresearch.org

Who pays, and doesn't pay, federal income taxes in the U.S.?

Since 2000, there has been a downward trend in average effective tax rates for all but the richest taxpayers.
www.pewresearch.org www.pewresearch.org
 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
33% of federal spending is not fraudulent. The best way to get rid of fraud is to spend the money to track it down. But when it comes to finding fraud the GOP doesn't really want to do that. They want to pretend they are by putting on a show but the reality is they aren't finding fraud. They are just causing the government to not work properly which will only cost money in the long run.
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Great observation. It is the same thing they do about border security and illegal immigration. They need that issue and do not want to fix it, just like they need this issue. If they "fix" fraud and waste, then what?

#PresidentMusk wants to placate the people with a pittance. The real prize will come later, when they give the zillionaires another huge tax cut.
 
Cypress said:
Read your own link. It does not say 50 percent of households pay no income tax.

I will not trust any links you give again.
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You obviously didn't read the link where it states that 47.1% of U.S. households with an income between
40,000 and 50,000 U.S. dollars paid no individual income taxes. Granted, as I said before that the 47.1% isn't
quite the 50% that was stated earlier, but it's damn close to being half of the American work force that
doesn't pay taxes. I doubt that you'll ever trust those figures for the year 2024. Prove me wrong by admitting
that close to 50% of the average American worker pays zero income taxes.
 
Libhater said:
You obviously didn't read the link where it states that 47.1% of U.S. households with an income between
40,000 and 50,000 U.S. dollars paid no individual income taxes. Granted, as I said before that the 47.1% isn't
quite the 50% that was stated earlier, but it's damn close to being half of the American work force that
doesn't pay taxes. I doubt that you'll ever trust those figures for the year 2024. Prove me wrong by admitting
that close to 50% of the average American worker pays zero income taxes.
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Do you even read your own articles?

It says in the first sentence of the article about 60 percent of all households pay income tax. 59.9 to be exact.

50 percent is not 60 percent.

I am never trusting your links again.
 
Cypress said:
Do you even read your own articles?

It says in the first sentence of the article about 60 percent of all households pay income tax. 59.9 to be exact.

50 percent is not 60 percent.

I am never trusting your links again.
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I specifically asked for proof that half of working age, healthy Americans pay no tax. Because we don't expect the disabled, children or students, the infirm, the elderly poor to pay taxes.

Using "households" as the metric does not answer the question.

Many "households" are residences for the disabled, college students, the infirm, the elderly poor.

So the number of healthy, working age Americans paying taxes is substantially higher than 60 percent.
 
Cypress said:
Do you even read your own articles?

It says in the first sentence of the article about 60 percent of all households pay income tax. 59.9 to be exact.

50 percent is not 60 percent.

I am never trusting your links again.
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I'm referring to the 471% bulk of American workers who make between 40,000 and 50,000 a year who pay zero income taxes.
That 60% of those paying taxes certainly includes millionaires and the like that make up that difference between 47.1% of
non tax paying workers and that 13% of rich people who do pay taxes. So, once again, the bulk of people--about 47% of
working Americans pay zero in taxes. If you have problems with those statistics then I suggest you contact the 'Statista Research
Department to get the facts.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Assuming there actually IS any savings, of course.
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Pretending that there is no waste or fraud in government takes a solid imagination. Whether you want to believe that some will be found or not, there will be. You can imagine a world in which millions of humans are perfect because they work in government, I prefer to understand that even if it is only accidental humans suck at this.
 
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