One Simple Reason why I am a Gap Theorist

Ezek 28:

[10] Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
[11] Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
[12] Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
[13] Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
[14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
[15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
[16] By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
[17] Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
[18] Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
[19] All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
 
Once again, the "cast out" happened afterward. He was already on Earth previous, as I said. You, yourself, call it a theory. According to what I understand while I read the very few verses that actually deal with Satan's "iniquity" it seems clear that the watchers rebelled with Satan, already on earth, as Satan was cast out. The watchers were also not in heaven when they chose to sleep with the women of the earth. Their children were killed, they got pissed, they joined Satan. Their children were killed in the flood.

Satan then had his actual rebellion, the final straw so to speak, where he chose to attempt to raise his throne above God's and was cast down before he got there.
 
uscitizen said:
So how did 1/3 of the angels revolt in a place as perfect as heaven ?
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That depends on which 'heaven' we are talking about.

In the Heavenly realm, which is spiritual, there is no fighting, for there are no physical bodies. Clearly the scriptures are speaking of the 2nd heaven: outer space. This was an interplanetary war. Ezekiel 28:14 says, Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. The 'stones of fire' are not small stones, but God-built stones. These are the planets of Lucifer's dominion.

The planets were inhabited by Angelic creatures, with immortal yet tangible bodies, prior to the creation of Adam and Eve.
 
Agnosticus_Caesar said:
Ezek 28:

[10] Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
[11] Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
[12] Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
[13] Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
[14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
[15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
[16] By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
[17] Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
[18] Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
[19] All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
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It says he "was" perfect until the iniquity was there. My new car was perfect until the mice got into the wiring... Get it?

It doesn't say, "you were created to be perfect". It says "you were perfect until you decided to do this".
 
Damocles said:
Once again, the "cast out" happened afterward. He was already on Earth previous, as I said. You, yourself, call it a theory. According to what I understand while I read the very few verses that actually deal with Satan's "iniquity" it seems clear that the watchers rebelled with Satan, already on earth, as Satan was cast out. The watchers were also not in heaven when they chose to sleep with the women of the earth. Their children were killed, they got pissed, they joined Satan. Their children were killed in the flood.

Satan then had his actual rebellion, the final straw so to speak, where he chose to attempt to raise his throne above God's and was cast down before he got there.
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The rebellion of the Watchers may have been inspired by Satan, but it cannot be the first time Satan rebelled. The incident in Eden proves this. As for the Watchers, you are incorrect, as a reading of Enoch chapters 6 -7 would seem to indicate. I recommend you read it. It is clear, by the words and deeds of the Watchers, that this is their "first sin." It also refers to them as "the angels, the children of the heaven."

The actual rebellion of Satan took place between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.
 
According to Judeo/Christian theology, lucifer was to be just like God himself...but, if I create you to be another me, wouldn't you claim to own what I claim to own? You are, after all, me.

Since, only an exact relica of God could be "perfect", that replica would expect everything the original expects.

They would fight.
 
Damocles said:
It says he "was" perfect until the iniquity was there. My new car was perfect until the mice got into the wiring... Get it?

It doesn't say, "you were created to be perfect". It says "you were perfect until you decided to do this".
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Precisely, and well-said.
 
No, it was just the final straw and was the time he was "cast down" which was my point from the beginning. You said he was "cast down" beforehand, I said it was after Noah. I have given my evidence you have provided me with, "Well he was in Eden." I haven't disputed that one. I disputed that he was "cast down" before that time. He wasn't cast down until he rose from the earth in his attempt to raise his throne above all others.

As I said, it was the "final straw" move.
 
Agnosticus_Caesar said:
According to Judeo/Christian theology, lucifer was to be just like God himself...but, if I create you to be another me, wouldn't you claim to own what I claim to own? You are, after all, me.

Since, only an exact relica of God could be "perfect", that replica would expect everything the original expects.

They would fight.
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I have seen no evidence that he was created to be another God. I have seen evidence that he was created to be one of three Archangels and was the "Minister of Music".
 
Agnosticus_Caesar said:
HE WAS CREATED PERFECT. He wasn't created to seem perfect. HE WAS CREATED PERFECT.
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You have no evidence of this. It says that he was perfect until he sinned, it does not say he was created to be perfect. Words mean things, especially when in such a context, you are being disingenuous.
 
Agnosticus_Caesar said:
So Lucifer was no better than human...other than the idea that he started out in better circumstances.
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That and more knowledge. Why do you think He took the tree of Life? It says, "Or he will become like us". Basically if we lived forever and had knowledge of good and evil we could at some point be as powerful. We are limited by our body. Such a shame.

The old Testament is full of verses that are interesting. Often scholars translate that one as the Royal We. Yet in other verses, even when speaking such a way would make sense, he doesn't use that terminology.

Later it talks of a meeting of Elohim where he divides the earth into parts where each would lead and they would see who basically won the planet...

Seriously interesting verses.
 
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