Our Fine-Tuned Universe: Accident or Design?

Alter2Ego said:
IBDaMann:

I was just about to say the same thing to you. Your posts are, franky, pathetic and are failed attempts at making yourself appear to be smart. Nothing you've posted thus far has answered any of the questions in my OP.
Click to expand...
IBDaMann = Into the Night = gfm7175 = Uncensored2008. He's a paranoid schizophrenic with at least four socks, IMO.
 
IBDaMann said:
You were gullible when you read that and believed it. I highly recommend that you learn what science is.

Look, I'm not your enemy. In fact, I'm going to be your best friend. I'm going to teach you a few things to give you a much more solid basis for presenting your argument. Your current line of reasoning is so riddled with errors and contradictions that you lose before you get out of the starting gate. Let's get you off and running.

First, science is nothing more than a collection of falsifiable models. You have fallen for the phony notion that the word "science" or "scientific" is some sort of dog-whistle that elevates whatever subjective term it modifies to the status of "objective truth that must be accepted as presented." For example, Christians use the words "Holy" and "Sacred" in the same manner. If a Christian were to quote from the Q'ran, he would say "This is what the Q'ran says ..." but if he quotes from the Bible, he claims to be quoting holy scripture. If a Christian were presented a robe supposedly worn by Mohammed, he would refer to it an ancient robe, but he would refer to the supposed burial robe of Jesus as the sacred shroud. The adjectives are intended to express that the audience is to simply accept something subjective as objective truth without the speaker having to provide any support. Ergo, when you say "scientific evidence", your audience understands that you have no intention of supporting your subjective claim, because you cannot, because you did not demand that the person making the claim to you support his claim, i.e. your audience understands that you are simply regurgitating without question what you have been told to preach by others.

This does not make you credible. In fact, it gets you ignored ... but not by me; I'll listen to you.

Second, "evidence" is entirely subjective on multiple levels. What even constitutes evidence in the first place is highly subjective, but what any accepted evidence means is also entirely subjective. This is why in a court of law, both sides submit what they consider to be "evidence" and both sides move to get what the other side has submitted thrown out as not being "evidence." Whatver remains as "evidence" is left for a jury to subjectively interpret as they will. You, however, tried pretending that "evidence" you were submitting had already been accepted by your audience, which it had not. You tried to accomplish by using the first point of referring to it as "scientific." Foul! Your "evidence" is subsequently tossed and is not admissible. Sorry.

Third, you are trying to get "research" classified as "science". Clinical trials and demonstrations are performed while conducting research. Unless new science is created resulting from this research, science doesn't enter the picture.

Thus, it is entirely absurd to refer to research as "scientific evidence." It prevents your argument from even getting out of the starting gate.

My recommendation to you is two-fold:
1. Read Darwin's On the Origin of Species and know what it reads, so you don't make a long chain of erroneous assertions about what it supposedly says.
2. Divorce your argument from any need to link it to science; you can't. Darwin's theory of evolution is not science, and your apparent need to show that it isn't is very much misplaced.

The above will make your case much more solid.
Click to expand...
IBDaMann:

Who do you think has the time to waste reading the wall of text you posted above? Are you serious? Answer the direct questions in my OP or else you can simply disappear. I'm not interested in your nonsensical postings, which are nothing more than veiled attempts at dodging the questions in my OP.
 
Alter2Ego said:
Domer76:

Although there are things Almighty God Jehovah chooses not to know, when he asked Adam and Eve "Where are you?" as they hid among the trees in the Garden of Eden, he knew where they were. The question was intended to get Adam and Eve to stop hiding.

Genesis 3:8​

Later they heard the voice of Jehovah God as he was walking in the garden about the breezy part of the day, and the man and his wife hid from the face of Jehovah God among the trees of the garden.

Genesis 3:9​

And Jehovah God kept calling to the man and saying to him: “Where are you?”

Genesis 3:10​

Finally he said: “I heard your voice in the garden, but I was afraid because I was naked, so I hid myself.”

Genesis 3:11​

At that he said: “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree from which I commanded you not to eat?”


The fact that they ate of the forbidden fruit was clear to the Almighty. He knew by their behavior that they had eaten it. Thus, his question to them was rhethorical.
Click to expand...
He couldn’t find Adam and Eve. He had to ask what they had done. Straight forward.

Tell us about your plural gods. And the storm god, Yahweh.
 
ZenMode said:
Are you saying that the fundamental molecular structure of the sun, or man’s skin, changed when Adam ate the apple?
Click to expand...
ZenMode:

It has nothing to do with the sun. It's because the human body has become imperfect because of inherited sin from the first man, Adam. And nobody said anything about an apple. The Bible did not identify the forbidden fruit.

Adam was told not to eat from one specific fruit tree but that he could eat from all of the others.

Genesis 2:8​

Further, Jehovah God planted a garden in Eʹden, toward the east; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Genesis 2:9​

Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree that was pleasing to look at and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.

Genesis 2:15​

Jehovah God took the man and settled him in the garden of Eʹden to cultivate it and to take care of it.

Genesis 2:16​

Jehovah God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction.

Genesis 2:17​

But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.”



Adam rebelled against the Almighty and ate of the forbidden fruit. He thereby became imperfect. He failed the test and brought old age, sickness, and eventual death to all of humanity.

Romans 5:12​

That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned—.
 
Alter2Ego said:
ZenMode:

It has nothing to do with the sun, but with the now imperfect humans. And nobody said anything about an apple. The Bible did not identify the forbidden fruit.

Adam was told not to eat from one specific fruit tree but that he could eat from all of the others.

Genesis 2:8​

Further, Jehovah God planted a garden in Eʹden, toward the east; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Genesis 2:9​

Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree that was pleasing to look at and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.

Genesis 2:15​

Jehovah God took the man and settled him in the garden of Eʹden to cultivate it and to take care of it.

Genesis 2:16​

Jehovah God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction.

Genesis 2:17​

But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.”



Adam rebelled against the Almighty and ate of the forbidden fruit. He thereby became imperfect. He failed the test and brought old age, sickness, and eventual death to all of humanity.

Romans 5:12​

That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned—.
Click to expand...
I have never sinned.

Why didn’t Adam die that day? The serpent was correct and Adam’s god lied. That’s what minor storm gods do - lie.
 
Alter2Ego said:
ZenMode:

It has nothing to do with the sun. It's because the human body has become imperfect because of inherited sin from the first man, Adam. And nobody said anything about an apple. The Bible did not identify the forbidden fruit.

Adam was told not to eat from one specific fruit tree but that he could eat from all of the others.

Genesis 2:8​

Further, Jehovah God planted a garden in Eʹden, toward the east; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Genesis 2:9​

Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree that was pleasing to look at and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.

Genesis 2:15​

Jehovah God took the man and settled him in the garden of Eʹden to cultivate it and to take care of it.

Genesis 2:16​

Jehovah God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction.

Genesis 2:17​

But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.”



Adam rebelled against the Almighty and ate of the forbidden fruit. He thereby became imperfect. He failed the test and brought old age, sickness, and eventual death to all of humanity.

Romans 5:12​

That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned—.
Click to expand...
Who did Cain fuck in order to have children? The only other people around were Adam and Eve. Adam couldn't have babies soooo.....who? Was Cain the first mother fucker?
 
Alter2Ego said:
IBDaMann: I know the difference between precision and accuracy.
Click to expand...
Nope. You do not, even though I spell it out for you.

Alter2Ego said:
You, apparently, do not, which is why you're unable to overcome the arguments in my OP
Click to expand...
Your arguments in the OP didn't get out of the starting gate. There was nothing for me to overcome. If you were to actually make a respectable argument for creationism, I wouldn't feel any need to overcome it. I don't oppose creationism, but I am a huge fan of Darwin's theory of evolution, and you haven't gotten anything right yet.

Alter2Ego said:
and have opted instead to nitpick on my definitions,
Click to expand...
I will nitpick all definitions. You absolutely must get those right.

Alter2Ego said:
despite the fact I quoted the definitions from common English dictionaries.
Click to expand...
You operate under a false authority fallacy. No dictionary gets to define or redefine any words. Just tell me how you define any given word; that is sufficient.

Alter2Ego said:
So don't waste my time showing up here attempting to take the higher ground by pretending you know anything.
Click to expand...
It would seem that I know much more than you do on this topic. But that's good news for you because you can learn from me and make your case for creationism much stronger.

Alter2Ego said:
At this point, all you're giving me is wash, rinse, and repeat.
Click to expand...
At this point, all you are doing is burying your head in the sand. That will not elevate your arguments any.

Alter2Ego said:
You need to stop posting the same tripe after you've been effectively debunked.
Click to expand...
You need to debunk something before you can claim to have debunked something.

Hey, I'm here for you. Don't be afraid to come to me with your difficult questions.
 
Alter2Ego said:
Cypress:

Nothing that you stated above has in any way answered the questions asked in my OP.

Nuff said.
Click to expand...
They weren't your questions.

They were questions and ideas you cribbed, plagiarized, and paraphrased from some webpage or article you read.

As best I can remember, your last two questions were flaccid attempts to insinuate that any scientific uncertainty justifies that God must have did it. And your first question was an amateur statement of the obvious and self evident: the nuclear and quantum properties of the elements impart a periodicity to them. Duh.
 
Alter2Ego said:
IBDaMann: I was just about to say the same thing to you.
Click to expand...
I realize your resistance to being rational. You were comfortable with your arguments as they were, and when someone like me points out errors you either overlooked or of which you were unaware, it represents additional cognitive work that you will have to perform, and that is more tedious and painful than simply regurgitating what you have been told to preach.

Again, I'm not your enemy. I don't oppose you. I am simply pointing out fatal flaws in your arguments. If you don't want to fix those problems, I won't take it personally. Don't shoot the messenger for explaining why you will be floundering miserably in discussions with others. I'll always stand by to help you when you want to stop pulling the rug out from under yourself.

Carry on.

Alter2Ego said:
Your posts are, franky, pathetic and are failed attempts at making yourself appear to be smart.
Click to expand...
I don't need to "appear" smart. I'm an expert on this subject matter. You can feel free to avail yourself of my expertise whenever you wish.

Alter2Ego said:
Nothing you've posted thus far has answered any of the questions in my OP.
Click to expand...
Your questions are bogus. They are based on erroneous assumptions.
 
Alter2Ego said:
IBDaMann: Who do you think has the time to waste reading the wall of text you posted above?
Click to expand...
Only those who are serious about making a solid case for creationism. If that does not include you then you should ignore the post.

Alter2Ego said:
Are you serious?
Click to expand...
I'm helpful. You should take advantage of that.

Alter2Ego said:
Answer the direct questions in my OP or else you can simply disappear.
Click to expand...
Ask questions that are not bogus on their face or you should expect no answers from anyone, period.

Alter2Ego said:
I'm not interested in your nonsensical postings,
Click to expand...
I totally understand your resistance to thinking for yourself. It's a lot of work. Nobody is going to hold it against you if you want to take the easy route.

Alter2Ego said:
which are nothing more than veiled attempts at dodging the questions in my OP.
Click to expand...
You need to ask valid questions if you want reasonable answers in a valid discussion.
 
Cypress said:
They weren't your questions.

They were questions and ideas you cribbed, plagiarized, and paraphrased from some webpage or article you read.

As best I can remember, your last two questions were flaccid attempts to insinuate that any scientific uncertainty justifies that God must have did it. And your first question was an amateur statement of the obvious and self evident: the nuclear and quantum properties of the elements impart a periodicity to them. Duh.
Click to expand...
Cypress:

I challenge you to prove it.

Of course everyone reading this thread knows you are simply dreaming up excuses to avoid answering the questions in my OP because you realize the implication of the answers to those questions.
 
Alter2Ego said:
Cypress:

I challenge you to prove it.

Of course everyone reading this thread knows you are simply dreaming up excuses to avoid answering the questions in my OP because you realize the implication of the answers to those questions.
Click to expand...
I answered your questions and you ran from the post. Why? Is it too embarrassing for you to admit error?
 
Alter2Ego said:
ZenMode:

It has nothing to do with the sun. It's because the human body has become imperfect because of inherited sin from the first man, Adam. And nobody said anything about an apple. The Bible did not identify the forbidden fruit.

Adam was told not to eat from one specific fruit tree but that he could eat from all of the others.

Genesis 2:8​

Further, Jehovah God planted a garden in Eʹden, toward the east; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Genesis 2:9​

Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree that was pleasing to look at and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.

Genesis 2:15​

Jehovah God took the man and settled him in the garden of Eʹden to cultivate it and to take care of it.

Genesis 2:16​

Jehovah God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction.

Genesis 2:17​

But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.”



Adam rebelled against the Almighty and ate of the forbidden fruit. He thereby became imperfect. He failed the test and brought old age, sickness, and eventual death to all of humanity.

Romans 5:12​

That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned—.
Click to expand...
Well, there's a wall of TL;DR that was better saved for a Sunday pulpit in a fundie church.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top