Prediction: Zimmy Verdict!

Zimmy: Guilty or Not Guilty


  • Total voters
    15
Then why didnt he shoot him when he was 20 feet away?

Because he did not intend to shoot him when he was twenty feet away. Besides, according to Zimmerman he was never aware of him at that distance outside of his car.

The Medical examiner proved that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and was banging his head on the concrete...

The concrete is a weapon.

Zimmerman fired in self defense. The stand your ground law allows for this... why do you ignore it?

No the ME did not prove he banged his head on the concrete. Further, Zimmerman claims they were off the concrete when he fired. The concrete strikes were then no longer a threat and may be relevant to his understandable feelings of provocation at that point, but not to justifiable use of deadly force.
 
Prosecution did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman committed Murder in the Second Degree.

Many Prosecution witnesses bolstered Zimmerman's case.

The testimony of the Medical Examiner showing how Martin was on top of Zimmerman shows that Zimmerman was being attacked.

Trayvon Martin has a Documented record and propensity for Violence and Criminal Activity.

The Prosecution added the possibility to have Manslaughter considered because they knew they didn't prove their case. It was a hedge bet...

Zimmerman will walk... but he'll be always looking over his shoulder.
You've neglected in your analysis that the jury can consider lesser manslaughter charges. I agree that the prosecution did a poor job of making a case for 2nd degree murder. Involuntary manslaughter there is a very strong case.

Point #1. Zimmerman was intructed to say in his car by police.
Point #2. Zimmerman disregarded instructions and left the car.
Point #3. Zimmerman left his car with a loaded gun.
Point #4. Zimmerman confronted Trayvon.
Point #5. Zimmerman shot Trayvon after confronting him.

To be not quilty of manslaughter Zimmermans actions must have been excusable. There are only three excuses that Zimmerman can use. Self defense not being one of them.

#1. Was the killing committed by accident or misfortune? No it wasn't. Zimmerman intentionally killed Trayvon and used a deadly weapon to do so
#2. Did the killing occurr by accident or misfortune in the heat of passion? Had not Zimmerman used a fire arm there would be an excellent argument for this excuse. He did used a fire arm so that excuse may not work.
#3. Was the killing committed by misfortune or accident if a deadly weapon is not used and the killing isn't done in a cruel and unuasuall manner? That excuse does not work as Zimmerman did kill Trayvon with a deadly weapon.

The case here is very strong for manslaughter. Since Mr. Zimmerman provoked the controntation he cannot claim self defense as an excuse for manslaughter (though for certain he can and did for murder).

The next question if Mr. Zimmermans actions were not excusable for Florida defintion is were is actions intentional or negligent?

If the jury determines that his actions were not excusable and were intentional than he's quilty of voluntary manslaughter.
If the jury determines that his actions were not excusable and were not intentional but were negligent than he's guilty of involuntary manslaughter.
If they jury determines that is actons were excusable as defined by Florida law, then he's not guilty of manslaughter.
If the jury determines that his actions are not excusalbe but were not intentional or negligent, than he's not guilty of manslaughter.

If his is found guilty of manslaughter and because of the fact that a firearm was used, those are aggravating conditions which raise the conviction from a level 2 felony to a level 1 felony in Florida and Zimmerman would face a stiffer sentence than had a gun not been used.

So then if Mr. Zimmermans actions were not excusable by these definitions of Florida Law he could be convicted b
 
If it is justifiable then he walks, end of story. I don't see where they even mention "involuntary." Even the section on "unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act" is manslaughter. It's either manslaughter or aggravated manslaughter.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ute&URL=0700-0799/0782/0782ContentsIndex.html
No it's not the end of the story. You're confusing murder with manslaughter. Mr. Zimmermans actions must be "excusable" by defintion of Florida law. His justification has nothing to do with manslaughter and everything to do with the charge of murder.
 
I think Mr. Zimmermans chanced of avoiding a manslaughter conviction really hang on wether his actions were intentional or negligent as I don't think his actions meet the definition of excusable under Florida law.
 
You've neglected in your analysis that the jury can consider lesser manslaughter charges. I agree that the prosecution did a poor job of making a case for 2nd degree murder. Involuntary manslaughter there is a very strong case.

Point #1. Zimmerman was intructed to say in his car by police.
Point #2. Zimmerman disregarded instructions and left the car.
Point #3. Zimmerman left his car with a loaded gun.
Point #4. Zimmerman confronted Trayvon.
Point #5. Zimmerman shot Trayvon after confronting him.

To be not quilty of manslaughter Zimmermans actions must have been excusable. There are only three excuses that Zimmerman can use. Self defense not being one of them.

#1. Was the killing committed by accident or misfortune? No it wasn't. Zimmerman intentionally killed Trayvon and used a deadly weapon to do so
#2. Did the killing occurr by accident or misfortune in the heat of passion? Had not Zimmerman used a fire arm there would be an excellent argument for this excuse. He did used a fire arm so that excuse may not work.
#3. Was the killing committed by misfortune or accident if a deadly weapon is not used and the killing isn't done in a cruel and unuasuall manner? That excuse does not work as Zimmerman did kill Trayvon with a deadly weapon.

The case here is very strong for manslaughter. Since Mr. Zimmerman provoked the controntation he cannot claim self defense as an excuse for manslaughter (though for certain he can and did for murder).

The next question if Mr. Zimmermans actions were not excusable for Florida defintion is were is actions intentional or negligent?

If the jury determines that his actions were not excusable and were intentional than he's quilty of voluntary manslaughter.
If the jury determines that his actions were not excusable and were not intentional but were negligent than he's guilty of involuntary manslaughter.
If they jury determines that is actons were excusable as defined by Florida law, then he's not guilty of manslaughter.
If the jury determines that his actions are not excusalbe but were not intentional or negligent, than he's not guilty of manslaughter.

If his is found guilty of manslaughter and because of the fact that a firearm was used, those are aggravating conditions which raise the conviction from a level 2 felony to a level 1 felony in Florida and Zimmerman would face a stiffer sentence than had a gun not been used.

So then if Mr. Zimmermans actions were not excusable by these definitions of Florida Law he could be convicted b

You made this all up. The police did not order him to get out of his truck. There is no law against him getting out of his truck with a gun. He had a CCW. You can't prove he confronted Taryvon and evidence suggests Trayvon confronted Zimmerman. The only thing you got right is that Zimmerman shot Martin

Why are lefties so intent on persecuting an Hispanic with a Jew sounding name?
 
If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity

and was attacked in any
place where he had a right to be,

he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his
ground and meet force with force, including deadly force

if he reasonably believed that it was
necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent
the commission of a forcible felony.

http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/Zimmerman_Final_Jury_Instructions.pdf

Following has been, and will always continue to be, immaterial. It's not illegal. The jury instructions say very clearly if one was not engaged in an unlawful activity and is attacked he has a right to meet force with force.

The only thing that matters is his state of mind at the time of the shooting and that is it. Nothing else.

Argue, stamp your feet all you want, say that "all the actions lead to a certain action... it doesn't matter. read the jury instructions.

He either had a reasonable fear or he didn't. If he didn't, then it's probably manslaughter.
 
No it's not the end of the story. You're confusing murder with manslaughter. Mr. Zimmermans actions must be "excusable" by defintion of Florida law. His justification has nothing to do with manslaughter and everything to do with the charge of murder.


You can look through the statues. Justifiable use of deadly force is a defense of manslaughter and every other possible crime. If it defends him against murder 2 then it defends him against manslaughter.

Here is the only reference I can find to "involuntary manslaughter" in the statutes.


http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...atutes&Search_String=involuntary+manslaughter


It is not relevant and it appears they mean "manslaughter or vehicular homicide" rather than "manslaughter or involuntary manslaughter."
 
For Mott...

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ing=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.07.html

(1) The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder, according to the provisions of this chapter, is manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s.775.084.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.03.html


782.03 Excusable homicide.—Homicide is excusable when committed by accident and misfortune in doing any lawful act by lawful means with usual ordinary caution, and without any unlawful intent, or by accident and misfortune in the heat of passion, upon any sudden and sufficient provocation, or upon a sudden combat, without any dangerous weapon being used and not done in a cruel or unusual manner.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ml&StatuteYear=2012&Title=->2012->Chapter 776

...

I think, you are confusing the terms, not I. If it is justifiable he walks. Excusable does not apply because he used a gun. But, again, if it were excusable he walks. Killing a human through culpable negligence is manslaughter. It appears it would be aggravated manslaughter of a child (Trayvon was under 18). http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ml&StatuteYear=2012&Title=->2012->Chapter 776


[TABLE="width: 600"]
[/TABLE]
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ing=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.07.html
 
You made this all up. The police did not order him to get out of his truck. There is no law against him getting out of his truck with a gun. He had a CCW. You can't prove he confronted Taryvon and evidence suggests Trayvon confronted Zimmerman. The only thing you got right is that Zimmerman shot Martin

Why are lefties so intent on persecuting an Hispanic with a Jew sounding name?

The whole case is an exercise in Yellow Journalism and Prosecutorial Misconduct.

Did the State Prove 2nd degree Murder? Lets see:


The victim is dead; (Obviously)

The death was caused by the criminal act of the defendant; (Not Proven above a reasonable Doubt)

There was an unlawful killing of the victim by an act imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life.
(If Zimmerman killed Martin while he was standing aand a distance away...THAT is depraved, But Zimmerman was in a Submissive position with Martin on top of him in fear for his life.... Sorry... NOT PROVEN)

Now...Lets look at Manslaughter:


Manslaughter by Act (Voluntary Manslaughter): Committing an intentional act that was neither excusable, nor justified that resulted in the death of another person. (NOT PROVEN)

Manslaughter by Procurement (Voluntary Manslaughter): Persuading, inducing, or encouraging another person to commit an act that resulted in the death of another person.(NOT PROVEN)

Manslaughter by Culpable Negligence (Involuntary Manslaughter): Engaging in “Culpably Negligent” conduct that resulted in the death of another person. (Not Proven)

So really...The State proved nothing.. except that they wasted time and money on a racial witch hunt.
 
I hope you would feel the same when your 13 year old who daughter is walking home from her friends house and takes a short cut through the back alley.
 
I just heard a judge say that the prosecution knows they don't have a case, so they're going for an EMOTIONAL verdict. That is a sad thing if it is the state of the legal system today.

yeah because everyone knows when your kids ends up with a bullet hole in their chest there is no emotions involved
 
I hope you would feel the same when your 13 year old who daughter is walking home from her friends house and takes a short cut through the back alley.

Trying to prove a case using a Hypothetical with personal overtones is intellectually dishonest and not conducive to actual debate... All you are offering is rhetoric.

I quoted the actual statutes above and based on all the evidence I dont feel the state proved their case.

You on the other hand brought my Family into it... Very intellectually dishonest... It shows you are not a debater.
 
http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/Zimmerman_Final_Jury_Instructions.pdf

Following has been, and will always continue to be, immaterial. It's not illegal. The jury instructions say very clearly if one was not engaged in an unlawful activity and is attacked he has a right to meet force with force.

The only thing that matters is his state of mind at the time of the shooting and that is it. Nothing else.

Argue, stamp your feet all you want, say that "all the actions lead to a certain action... it doesn't matter. read the jury instructions.

He either had a reasonable fear or he didn't. If he didn't, then it's probably manslaughter.
Again, that's an acceptable defence for murder but not manslaughter.. Do try to keep up Grind.
 
I just found something out on CNN about the Jury instructions. The short version is that the Judge essentially took involuntary manslaughter off the table for consideration. It's either 2nd degree murder or voluntary manslaughter.

Now knowing that I'd have to change my vote and say Mr. Zimmerman will probably be aquited.
 
all Im offering you is an insite to the idea you all on the right just keep refusing to grok.

That boy did nothing wrong but try to protect himself from some 28 year old man who had a gun and was chasing him in the dark.


who do you people blame for what happened?

they guy who knew there was nothing Trayvon could really do to harm him because he already had a handy equalizer
 
Then why didnt he shoot him when he was 20 feet away?

The Medical examiner proved that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and was banging his head on the concrete...

The concrete is a weapon.


Zimmerman fired in self defense. The stand your ground law allows for this... why do you ignore it?
Wow....lots of people like you who just don't seem to have a significant reading comprehension level. Self defense is not a valid excuse for manslaughter. It is for murder but not manslaughter.
 
I still think its manslaughter.


you can not believe what the defendant says about the incident because he has proven he will lie.

so you then just look at the physical evidence to determine what happened.


The physical evidence shows that Trayvon was stalked by a man with a gun in the dark and ended up with a bullet hole in his chest
 
Last edited:
This poll is fail it should break down into all charged and mistrial as well.
There probably should have been 5 options.

#1. Guilty murder 2.
#2. Guilty manslaughter
#3. Aquital murder 2, hung jury manslaughter
#4. Hung jury/mistrial all charges
#5. Aquital all charges.

Right now, since I've learned involuntary manslaughter is essentially off the table that it would be either 3 or 5.
 
Back
Top