Prediction: Zimmy Verdict!

[Mott the Hoople]

I don't see why the state did not demand that the exception to justifiable use of deadly under "use of force by an aggressor" 776.041 be included in the jury instructions. They really dropped the ball there. Does anybody know whether the jury can consider the statutes without jury instruction?

I beleive, and the atty's here can correct me. I think a Grand Jury can do that when considering indictments. I don't beleive a trial jury can do that during deliberations.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

It was not. Culpable negligence in a killing IS manslaughter. Mere negligence would be excusable homicide if it did not involve a gun. The statues and jury instruction both support these points.

http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/Zimmerman_Final_Jury_Instructions.pdf
[URL]http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0782/0782ContentsIndex.html&StatuteYear=2012&Title=-%3E2012-%3EChapter%20782[/URL]

Damn.....my adobe reader needs updated. I couldn't open the PDF file. You could have a point there. I was going by what CNN said and they said simply "Negligence". If what you're saying that culpable negligence is still on the table then I stand corrected.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

As a Canadian, I just don't know what to predict. If this happened in Canada Zimmerman would be found guilty of at least some charge and most likely at least manslaughter. Due to the politics of the situation and the obvious raicism involved it is just too hard to come to any sort of guess as to whether the conviction should exceed at least manslaughter.

No doubt though, America has a serious problem with racism and the use of guns to settle their problems. But obviously that is just too remote a problem to deal with directly at this time. When the police even refuse to lay charges in the shooting death of a teenager then that's an indication of the depth of the problem.

Regardless of the outcome there will be even more hate generated between the races in Florida and the Americans south. If Zimmerman walks then the black community will only see more futility in relying on the justice system. If Zimmerman is convicted then the racist hate among American whites in the south will only be amplified and most likely will result in even more such horrible gun death incidences.

On the brighter side, could this be the incident that forces America to come to it's senses and take measures to stop the insanity? If the school shooting of 20 children didn't do it then I don't think this can. America has not felt enough pain yet!

I disagree with that. I think that most of the public outrage was that Mr. Zimmerman took a life when it was apparent he provoked a confrontation by profiling the young man and wasn't charged with anything. Once he was charged, I think most reasonable people, including southerners were satisfied. Sure there are some strident gun nuts who can rationalize using a gun to kill someone in just about any circumstance who are pissed off and then you have the right wing bigots who just can't understand what's wrong with open season on nigers who are pissed off too......but they are a very small minority.

I was outraged by this case too.....but only because Zimmerman was allowed to walk with no consequences when it was apparent that he provoked a confrontation. Once Zimmerman was charged I was happy and will remain so regardless of the verdict.

 

[monty1]

All you Americans need to get back to basics. One way of doing that would be to consider for a moment that the situation would be completely different had it been a black man shooting and killing a white kid.

Americans have descended to the point at which it's not being recognized that this is just one more example of a decline in society into depravity. Your sick ideology is allowing an obvious case of murder to be glossed over and become acceptable. It's not acceptable in a normal civilized society and that's how it needs to be seen. There's no need in second guessing it and arguing it on the basis of racism any further than that.

Get over it, deal with it in a sane and responsible way, and begin to heal the problems you are allowing your society to succumb to. If you don't then you will be your own victims.

 

[canceled.2021.1]

I hope you would feel the same when your 13 year old who daughter is walking home from her friends house and takes a short cut through the back alley.

What does that have to do with anything?

 

[canceled.2021.1]

all Im offering you is an insite to the idea you all on the right just keep refusing to grok.

That boy did nothing wrong but try to protect himself from some 28 year old man who had a gun and was chasing him in the dark.


who do you people blame for what happened?

they guy who knew there was nothing Trayvon could really do to harm him because he already had a handy equalizer

So answer this if you please. If Martin were so fearful as you claim and we have no way of knowing because of the unfortunate events of that evening, why didn't he just go home? There is ZERO evidence that Zimmerman chased him down. None whatsoever.

Based on the timelines that I have seen, if Martin were afraid, he had plenty of opportunity to go home. In fact, had he gone home right from the 7-11 he would have never crossed paths with Zimmerman.

Now before you get all up in arms, I am not saying that not going straight home from 7-11 means Martin deserved to die. I am merely pointing out that if you can speculate on what ifs and posture things that Zimmerman should have done differently, then surely in the interest of fairness you can do the same for Martin no?

 

[Timshel]

yeah because everyone knows when your kids ends up with a bullet hole in their chest there is no emotions involved

Their claims of a need to avoid emotional sensationalism are stupid. There defense depends on emotion. O'Mara showed a picture of Trayvon, sans shirt and looking slightly athletic, in closing because he wanted to establish that Zimmerman had a reason to fear him. They've exploited those people's irrational fear of blacks throughout.

 

[canceled.2021.1]

Zimmerman created the conditions which resulted in the death of Trayvon.


Trayvon did his best to get away from this creepy assed cracker.

Zimmerman sought Trayvon out.


now who was it who provoked fear in whom here?

There is ZERO proof of anything you just claimed here. ZERO. Nothing you claimed was presented as evidence in a court of law. This means one of three things

1) You are lying
2) You are woefully misinformed on the facts and haven't been paying attention
3) You truly believe this to be true even though it isn't.

In the interest of being fair and giving you the benefit of the doubt, I will opt for #3 as you didn't know that rental income was passive income but argued for 24 hours that it was not only to be proved wrong. So you do have a history of just thinking wrong things

 

[monty1]

I disagree with that. I think that most of the public outrage was that Mr. Zimmerman took a life when it was apparent he provoked a confrontation by profiling the young man and wasn't charged with anything. Once he was charged, I think most reasonable people, including southerners were satisfied. Sure there are some strident gun nuts who can rationalize using a gun to kill someone in just about any circumstance who are pissed off and then you have the right wing bigots who just can't understand what's wrong with open season on nigers who are pissed off too......but they are a very small minority.

I was outraged by this case too.....but only because Zimmerman was allowed to walk with no consequences when it was apparent that he provoked a confrontation. Once Zimmerman was charged I was happy and will remain so regardless of the verdict.

You perhaps shouldn't be happy because on the face of it, to me at least, that was not a fair trial. Fair in the sense that the prosecution was done in the most effective manner. It wasn't. First of all, this is obviously due to the reluctance of the police to pursue it to begin with.

However, my best guess is that Zimmerman is going to be found guilty of manslaughter because of the importance of coming to a conclusion that will satisfy the most people. I think that justice will have little to do with it.

The punishment for the crime of manslaughter will be manipulated in order to suit expectations and that will be where those interested in following it to it's conclusion will see the lack of justice.

There is no perceptible will to do what is right and then to go on to rectify the problem. Concealed handguns being carried by people who see themselves as vigilantes doing good for the people? Totally outrageous and unacceptable! Murder by gun on the street? Outrageous and not acceptable in a modern first world society! Yet still, Americans will argue the case as if Zimmerman isn't a murderer and that he could have only been defending himself. You people haven't even entered the starting gate yet!

This is all a lot bigger than Zimmerman and Martin and this one case. This is what makes your society.

 

[monty1]

So answer this if you please. If Martin were so fearful as you claim and we have no way of knowing because of the unfortunate events of that evening, why didn't he just go home? There is ZERO evidence that Zimmerman chased him down. None whatsoever.

Based on the timelines that I have seen, if Martin were afraid, he had plenty of opportunity to go home. In fact, had he gone home right from the 7-11 he would have never crossed paths with Zimmerman.

Now before you get all up in arms, I am not saying that not going straight home from 7-11 means Martin deserved to die. I am merely pointing out that if you can speculate on what ifs and posture things that Zimmerman should have done differently, then surely in the interest of fairness you can do the same for Martin no?

Isn't it ironic! When I see a picture such as that you have posted, I don't have to guess on what side you are going to take on the Zimmerman case! You are going to side with Zimmerman.

That's something for all Americans to think about. Why is that? Why is that your politics now, and most likely having evolved to that since the beginning of Obama's term as president?

The anti-abortionist is the one who is going to side with a murder by gun on the street! Interesting contradiction isn't it Americans! Can it be anything but a contradiction and a skewing of reality?

 

[Voted4Reagan]

6 women


they have seen a man lie before I bet and can sus it all out

calls for speculation... not preponderance of the Evidence. You premise is just more hot air to advance your position.

What facts do you have that Martin was innocent?

and did he commit the crime within the statutes of the Law... and if so...HOW?

Stop dancing around the issue.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

If Zimmy did fear for his life then that would be part of what has to go through someones mind in that incidence "I may spend my life in prison for this but Im not going to let myself be killed."


That is what has to run through your mind.


That is the choice if you shoot someone.


that is how it should be.

Completely LAST resort to stay alive.

total horseshit and I guarantee that if someone had you trapped on the ground and started pounding the shit out of you, your first thought wouldn't be to escape, it would be to do whatever you could to your attacker to stay alive. you are a lying idiot sociopath for even trying to put that bullshit out there.

 

[Voted4Reagan]

Line #2 should read MARTIN WAS MURDERED... Not Innocent.

Typo

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Zimmerman created the conditions which resulted in the death of Trayvon.


Trayvon did his best to get away from this creepy assed cracker.

Zimmerman sought Trayvon out.


now who was it who provoked fear in whom here?

again, you're a fucking liar.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Never never forget that Zimmy knew he had an equalizer.


Trayvon had skittles and a can of Iced tea to protect himself with

 

[SmarterthanYou]

I disagree with that. I think that most of the public outrage was that Mr. Zimmerman took a life when it was apparent he provoked a confrontation by profiling the young man and wasn't charged with anything. Once he was charged, I think most reasonable people, including southerners were satisfied. Sure there are some strident gun nuts who can rationalize using a gun to kill someone in just about any circumstance who are pissed off and then you have the right wing bigots who just can't understand what's wrong with open season on nigers who are pissed off too......but they are a very small minority.

I was outraged by this case too.....but only because Zimmerman was allowed to walk with no consequences when it was apparent that he provoked a confrontation. Once Zimmerman was charged I was happy and will remain so regardless of the verdict.

so you think that anyone who takes a human life should be charged and stand trial?

 

[monty1]

Predictions are boring. The interesting part is going to come after the verdict. By many appearances and indications, this is looking like the turning point the US has been lacking every since Obama's election as president has brought it into the public spotlight.

Is America going to descend even deeper into racist hate and depravity or is this going to bring about the cause that will start to fix it.

Here's a prediction: This could result in something good and be the beginning of the end for the racist tea bagger movement.

 

[christiefan915]

6 women

they have seen a man lie before I bet and can sus it all out

Lol, ain't that the truth.

 

[christiefan915]

Turning around, tackling and beating someone that hasnt touched you is not PROTECTING YOURSELF. It's called ASSAULT.

Preemptive strikes are NOT considered defensive unless attack is imminent.

You still have not proven within the framework of the law that Zimmerman showed intent to shoot as you claimed earlier.

All we have is GZ's word that that's what happened and he has a vested interest in saving his behind. Why did TM yell "get off, get off" if he was the aggressor? It should have been the other way around.

Justice means you have to consider every eventuality and not just automatically take the view that GZ was speaking the truth.

 

[Steelplate]

total horseshit and I guarantee that if someone had you trapped on the ground and started pounding the shit out of you, your first thought wouldn't be to escape, it would be to do whatever you could to your attacker to stay alive. you are a lying idiot sociopath for even trying to put that bullshit out there.

He had his chance to escape....instead, he confronted...again, according to Zimmerman's own testimony.