Privatizing Prison Success: Cheaper and Better Results

[Cancel7]

Oh did Darla get upset over having her child insult get thrown back in her face? I don't start shit, remember that.

And thank you for admitting that Liberals go with emotion in arguments over facts and reason. I mean we all know it to be true, but it's nice to finally see a Liberal with the balls to admit it.

(Just like lefties to have the first of their kind that has balls end up being a woman...)

What? I don't even know what "child insult" you are talking about, either given, or received.

No, you are just a insulting asshole in general. You constantly put words in the mouths of others, just as you did right here. And your "facts" don't stand up to scrutiny.

 

[Onceler]

There goes Dano accusing the other side of emotionalism, again. The guy who says liberals want you to smell bad, want to steal your guns, want to eradicate most of humanity for the sake of the environment & on and on...

 

[TheDanold]

What? I don't even know what "child insult" you are talking about, either given, or received.

No, you are just a insulting asshole in general. You constantly put words in the mouths of others, just as you did right here. And your "facts" don't stand up to scrutiny.

I thought we actually had a pretty good insult-free debate yesterday. I was referring to your insults in the other thread on preventative care.

I wouldn't put anything in your mouth and what scrutiny exactly rebutted the facts from the Economist - was it black-as-coal's laughable contention that prisoners are used to take flight orders for airlines?
Show me something that refutes the fact that private prisons don't do things 5 to 15% cheaper.

 

[TheDanold]

There goes Dano accusing the other side of emotionalism, again. The guy who says liberals want you to smell bad, want to steal your guns, want to eradicate most of humanity for the sake of the environment & on and on...

Liberals may not want much of that, but the end result is that they do ban some deodorant, they do confiscate guns Lierax like in San Fran, Chicago and DC and they do put hardship on people in the name of saving the environment from non-existent CO2 threat.

 

[Onceler]

Liberals may not want much of that, but the end result is that they do ban some deodorant, they do confiscate guns Lierax like in San Fran, Chicago and DC and they do put hardship on people in the name of saving the environment from non-existent CO2 threat.

Whatever. Showing everyone a quote from an extremist calling mankind a virus, and then saying "this is how liberals REALLY feel, everyone!", is an emotional, hyperbolic fear tactic.

There's no way around that. It's what you do with everything. As I told you the other day, you might actually make a decent argument now & then, if you wouldn't immediately jump to these kinds of extreme, emotional appeals that end up being a warped, dishonest reflection of whatever facts you might hope to present.

I'm trying to help...

 

[uscitizen]

And does my assholiness somehow translate to my arguments being wrong or right?
Think a little bit

Well you have another faliling as well, being a blind political follower. that contributes to most of your being wrong.

You are right some times, heck even a stopped clock is right 2 times a day.

 

[uscitizen]

Liberals may not want much of that, but the end result is that they do ban some deodorant, they do confiscate guns Lierax like in San Fran, Chicago and DC and they do put hardship on people in the name of saving the environment from non-existent CO2 threat.

Even the Ceo Of Exxon admits to the CO2 threat Dano.

sorry but I will take the word of most of the worlds scientists over that of a political pundit anyday.

 

[cawacko]

Well you have another faliling as well, being a blind political follower. that contributes to most of your being wrong.

You are right some times, heck even a stopped clock is right 2 times a day.

Demcrat/Liberal = Correct Republican/Conservative = Wrong

 

[Cypress]

Demcrat/Liberal = Correct Republican/Conservative = Wrong

Well done, cawacko! I agree!

 

[Adam Weinberg]

I'm against this.

There is no way in hell I would approve of making incarceration any more of a for-profit industry than it already is (mainly for those in the public sector, of course, and in this example it would be expanded to the private sector even more).

We have far too many people in prison in this country and far too many new facilities being built to hold people who are not a threat to society.

 

[Cancel7]

I thought we actually had a pretty good insult-free debate yesterday. I was referring to your insults in the other thread on preventative care.

I wouldn't put anything in your mouth and what scrutiny exactly rebutted the facts from the Economist - was it black-as-coal's laughable contention that prisoners are used to take flight orders for airlines?
Show me something that refutes the fact that private prisons don't do things 5 to 15% cheaper.

Oh I wasn't insulting your children though. I didn't even know if you had any. I find your position on that to be laughable, and also wildly radical, so I was just ignoring the rest of the thread. I don't have to worry about wide-eyed radicals, the American people aren't ever coming around to that way of thinking.

I've found that BAC doesn't make laughable claims, so I'd suggest you do a basic google on that before digging yourself into a hole.

As for cost effectiveness, for many of us, and thank God, there is far more to an issue than that.

This sick drive for cheap labor at any cost is responsible for so much misery in this world. I would not be proud of myself if I adhered to that philosophy. If big business and their political cohors are hell bent on keeping immigration open for a supply of cheap labor, what on earth would make you believe that they wouldn't keep our prisons filled if they can get it there?

We have far, far too many people in prison to begin with.

 

[uscitizen]

Demcrat/Liberal = Correct Republican/Conservative = Wrong

You are getting closer.
Wrong = Bushite neo extreme pro business and all extremists.

Correct = Moderate conservatives and liberals in many areas. No one political group is right in all areas.

When the dixie and danodemento types were roaring strong I was proud to be called a liberal. because it shwoed I was anti Bushite and neocon.
I am basically midstream liberal in the humanities and environment, but fiscally conservative.

 

[uscitizen]

There goes Dano accusing the other side of emotionalism, again. The guy who says liberals want you to smell bad, want to steal your guns, want to eradicate most of humanity for the sake of the environment & on and on...

The wanting to attack iraq after 911 was PURE emotionalism, anger and fear. look where it got us.

 

[ib1yysguy]

We all saw how cheap privatizing the military turned out to be. What was it, 150 billion missing in Iraq and nobody knows where it went?

 

[blackascoal]

Blackascoal, do you have any link that shows prisoners are booking flights? I'm not saying your lying I just have never heard that and find it very hard to believe.

Too bad many here are engaged in Romper Room Captain Kangaroo sniping instead of educating themselves on this issue.

If you want to learn more about prison slave labor in the US, search "UNICOR".

And for those who claim this is good for the prisoners and gives them a skill they could use once they get out .. why would companies hire ex-prisoners and pay them a real wage when they have the largest pool on prisoners ON PLANET EARTH to do their bidding for 25 cents an hour?

Americans are some of the most naive people ever invented. Slaves in prison aren't protected by labor laws, OSHA requirements, or anything else other than the will of the warden. How in the hell does America tout itself as the great democracy, a nation of morality and justice .. and at the same time incarcerate TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT OF ALL THE WORLD'S PRISONERS THEN USE THEM AS SLAVES?

Unicor Prison recycling harms prisoners, the community, the environment, and the recycling industry.
http://www.etoxics.org/site/DocServer/ToxicSweatshops.pdf?docID=321

It seemed like a normal factory closing. U.S. Technologies sold its electronics plant in Austin, Texas, leaving its 150 workers unemployed. Everyone figured they were moving the plant to Mexico, where they would employ workers at half the cost. But six weeks later, the electronics plant reopened in Austin in a nearby prison.

There are approximately 2 million people behind bars in the United States - more than three times the number of prisoners in 1980. The United States now imprisons more people than any other country in the world. In fact, in the last 20 years California has constructed 21 new prisons while in the same amount of time, it has built only one new university. That statistic is even more astounding when we think about the fact that it took California almost 150 years to build its first 12 prisons. Another five new prisons are under construction and plans are in the works to build another 10.

Many corporations, whose products we consume on a daily basis, have learned that prison labor can be as profitable as using sweatshop labor in developing nations. You might have had a first-hand experience with a prison laborer if you have ever booked a flight on Trans World Airlines, since many of the workers making the phone reservations are prisoners. Other companies that use prison labor are Chevron, IBM, Motorola, Compaq, Texas Instruments, Honeywell, Microsoft, Victoria's Secret and Boeing. Federal prisons operate under the trade name Unicor and use their prisoners to make everything from lawn furniture to congressional desks.
http://www.wpi.edu/News/TechNews/010327/prisonlabor.shtml

SLAVERY IN AMERICA IS LEGAL, DID YOU KNOW THAT?
http://www.metagrrrl.com/metagrrrl/2002/01/slavery_is_lega.html

Look for that Prison Label (Made in America)
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1526/Prisonlabel.htm

Made in the USA .. By CONVICTS
http://lpa.igc.org/lpv24/lp3.htm

Unions against prison labor
http://www.solidarity.com/PrisonLab.htm

http://www.albionmonitor.net/free/prisonjointventures.html

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2003/07/05/458/33681

http://www.celcee.edu/publications/digest/Dig06-06.html

"Inside prison, the prisoners are slaves, the warden is the slave master, the guards are the overseers, the jobs are the product that we slave over. In prison one makes 25 cents an hour, some much less. This prison has contracts with big corporations. We make sofas, chairs, desks, nightstands, etc. for a quarter an hour. Then they are sold in stores for hundreds of dollars, but you wouldn't know this because you're on the outside. You probably don't believe that prisoners are slaves, but doesn't it make sense? I mean, we are treated like dogs. Matter of fact, if we were treated like dogs, it would be much better."
http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/mt/mt11labor.html

http://www.etoxics.org/site/PageServer?pagename=svtc_prison_labor

There is a lot more to this issue .. and I'll be posting it.

 

[Cancel7]

Please do post it. I was very ignorant of this.

This goes a long way to explaining why we have these draconian drug laws for one thing.

A cheap labor pool.

 

[Cancel7]

State Corrections agencies are even advertising their prisoners to corporations by asking these questions: "Are you experiencing high employee turnover? Worried about the cost of employee benefits? Getting hit by overseas competition? Having trouble motivating your work force? Thinking about expansion space? Then the Washington State Department of Corrections Private Sector Partnerships is for you."

How do you like this Dano? Nice. Well, as long as it's "cheaper".

 

[Damocles]

Don't forget the high occasion of identity theft that happens when prisoners are taking orders for people. Credit cards are not that safe when you call "the company" anymore. Amazingly it is safer to go online get a temp number and order things online than it is to call the company who hires these felons to take your information.

 

[Cancel7]

Don't forget the high occasion of identity theft that happens when prisoners are taking orders for people. Credit cards are not that safe when you call "the company" anymore. Amazingly it is safer to go online get a temp number and order things online than it is to call the company who hires these felons to take your information.

You know what, that's bad. But the idea of these drug laws and these 3 strike laws, being used to sentence non-violent "criminals" to life, or, 20 years, so that we can have a cheap, really, slave labor pool?

That's evil Damo. That's like, hell.

So you know, credit card fraud, bad, but this...

 

[Blackflag]

I remember watching ssome show and it showed prisoners taking credit card orders over the phone. I think it was for airline tickets. That is pretty messed up imo.