Privatizing Prison Success: Cheaper and Better Results

Darla said:
You know what, that's bad. But the idea of these drug laws and these 3 strike laws, being used to sentence non-violent "criminals" to life, or, 20 years, so that we can have a cheap, really, slave labor pool?

That's evil Damo. That's like, hell.

So you know, credit card fraud, bad, but this...
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Yet you know that people will react if their own personal cash is at stake rather than some stranger's freedom.

We continue to have those idiotic drug laws even though the Prohibition proved that Prohibition doesn't work. We use those idiotic laws to put non-violent people into prison at a faster clip per-capita than any other nation.
 
The drug laws are weakening if anything let's not forget, marijuana is a prime example, so I don't buy this whole "prison labor making more drug criminals"
Also, California is using private prisons, the place is completely dominated by Liberals, lefties here don't trust them too?

And lastly and by far most critical, prisoners report being HAPPIER in private prisons than public prisons. Does anyone really believe that would be so if the picture blackascoal paints were true?


Prison labor is mostly good, yes it can make people nervous, but it also gives them skills for when they leave and from the article 95% of them will leave prison. A prisoner with more work skills will find it easier to find a job on leaving and thus less likely to reoffend.
 
TheDanold said:
The drug laws are weakening if anything let's not forget, marijuana is a prime example, so I don't buy this whole "prison labor making more drug criminals"
Also, California is using private prisons, the place is completely dominated by Liberals, lefties here don't trust them too?

And lastly and by far most critical, prisoners report being HAPPIER in private prisons than public prisons. Does anyone really believe that would be so if the picture blackascoal paints were true?


Prison labor is mostly good, yes it can make people nervous, but it also gives them skills for when they leave and from the article 95% of them will leave prison. A prisoner with more work skills will find it easier to find a job on leaving and thus less likely to reoffend.
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I should care about prisoners enjoying their prison time? LOL
 
You know Dano, some people think that if someone doesn't answer their post, they have "won" . I've seen people say they assume that. Let me therefore repeat:

You know what, that's bad. But the idea of these drug laws and these 3 strike laws, being used to sentence non-violent "criminals" to life, or, 20 years, so that we can have a cheap, really, slave labor pool?

That's evil Damo. That's like, hell.

I truly find your posts to be the most offensive I have ever read, not personally, but on a human level.

They sicken me, and I will mostly choose to not take them up.

Just so we're clear on what you accomplished on this thread.
 
Darla said:
You know Dano, some people think that if someone doesn't answer their post, they have "won" . I've seen people say they assume that. Let me therefore repeat:

You know what, that's bad. But the idea of these drug laws and these 3 strike laws, being used to sentence non-violent "criminals" to life, or, 20 years, so that we can have a cheap, really, slave labor pool?

That's evil Damo. That's like, hell.

I truly find your posts to be the most offensive I have ever read, not personally, but on a human level.

They sicken me, and I will mostly choose to not take them up.

Just so we're clear on what you accomplished on this thread.
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Did I say I won anything?
I don't agree with people in prison for drug crimes but that is a seperate issue. Prison work is good regardless of conviction.

Someday the drug user and the robber will get released, would you really just want the robber to have work skills and not the drug user?
It's WORK, it's not a fucking torturous, evil, sickening thing like your silly ass imagines, well maybe it is to Liberals who post thousands of times on forums and have no idea what actually constitutes work but that's another story.

And I find you the sickest woman I've ever met, you have all the femininity of a butch on roids.

Oh and I win.
 
I always find if bizarre how lefties biggest sympathies are for crminals, never really hear them give 2 shits about the victims...unless of course it's a corporate criminal then they act normal.
 
These prisoners are all merely human beings who have suffered a great deal in their life. I think that if we look down on them, they will only be carrying a chip on their shoulder with soceity, and refuse to cooperate. I think that allowing prisoners to work is a great thing! It humanizes them, and gives them a purpose. People begin to see these prisoners are people and not a bunch of lackies, that they can actually perform a task and complete it. It's not a bad thing. What is bad is the exploitation with using them as cheap labor. Why not make these prisoners work with Habitat for Humanity, United Way, or something that gives them a sense of pride instead? Working for a company that is trying to exploit you, yet you have no choice, is hell on the mind, I am sure. I would hope that someone would quit their job if their employer went to that level of exploitation of them.

It should not be our goal as a society to push these prisoners down and out, but we should rather try and tell them that we will forgive them once they spend some time thinking about what they have done.

As far as the economic effect of prisons and private prisons, I have to say that what is most economical is rehabilitating these prisoners and getting them out of there so that society does not have to continue to pay for their mistakes. I do not understand the philosophy that people tend to follow, that if we punish these people more, then they will be better members of society. This is not the case, this will make them worse members. They will feel shunned and unaccepted, and will never want to return to society. If you think that by treating these prioners horribly, it will prevent others from doing the same, it obviously hasn't worked. We need to live in a more peaceful environment.

As far as drug-laws, I have to agree with Darla, why are they so harsh on non-violent drug users? I think that drugs do nothing good for you, but that is no reason to lock someone up and punish them when they have not harmed anyone.
 
TheDanold said:
Did I say I won anything?
I don't agree with people in prison for drug crimes but that is a seperate issue. Prison work is good regardless of conviction.

Someday the drug user and the robber will get released, would you really just want the robber to have work skills and not the drug user?
It's WORK, it's not a fucking torturous, evil, sickening thing like your silly ass imagines, well maybe it is to Liberals who post thousands of times on forums and have no idea what actually constitutes work but that's another story.

And I find you the sickest woman I've ever met, you have all the femininity of a butch on roids.

Oh and I win.
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It creates very large financial incentives to have more prisoners, not less, and that leads to evil. You are blind.

Dano, you are such a typical right wing male type, you have no idea. My femininity. Who cares Dano?

I am talking about your ideology, which I find souless and cruel. And your extremist opinions are offensive to me, again, as a human being, because they discount humanity.

I've never even given a second's thought to your "masculinity" or lack thereof, nor would I. Because I don't care.
 
Dalai_Lama said:
These prisoners are all merely human beings who have suffered a great deal in their life. I think that if we look down on them, they will only be carrying a chip on their shoulder with soceity, and refuse to cooperate. I think that allowing prisoners to work is a great thing! It humanizes them, and gives them a purpose. People begin to see these prisoners are people and not a bunch of lackies, that they can actually perform a task and complete it. It's not a bad thing. What is bad is the exploitation with using them as cheap labor. Why not make these prisoners work with Habitat for Humanity, United Way, or something that gives them a sense of pride instead? Working for a company that is trying to exploit you, yet you have no choice, is hell on the mind, I am sure. I would hope that someone would quit their job if their employer went to that level of exploitation of them.

It should not be our goal as a society to push these prisoners down and out, but we should rather try and tell them that we will forgive them once they spend some time thinking about what they have done.

As far as the economic effect of prisons and private prisons, I have to say that what is most economical is rehabilitating these prisoners and getting them out of there so that society does not have to continue to pay for their mistakes. I do not understand the philosophy that people tend to follow, that if we punish these people more, then they will be better members of society. This is not the case, this will make them worse members. They will feel shunned and unaccepted, and will never want to return to society. If you think that by treating these prioners horribly, it will prevent others from doing the same, it obviously hasn't worked. We need to live in a more peaceful environment.

As far as drug-laws, I have to agree with Darla, why are they so harsh on non-violent drug users? I think that drugs do nothing good for you, but that is no reason to lock someone up and punish them when they have not harmed anyone.
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These are some interesting and really thoughtful, ideas.
 
Duhla said:
It creates very large financial incentives to have more prisoners, not less, and that leads to evil. You are blind.
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NO Darla, that is your THEORY, the reality is not that because as I have said countless times to you, the prisoners would NOT be saying they are happier with private prisons, nor do you see in reality that drug laws are getting strengthened, there is far more dope use today because it is not punished as severely or in some cases not at all.

Duhla said:
Dano, you are such a typical right wing male type, you have no idea. My femininity. Who cares Dano?
I am talking about your ideology, which I find souless and cruel. And your extremist opinions are offensive to me, again, as a human being, because they discount humanity.
I've never even given a second's thought to your "masculinity" or lack thereof, nor would I. Because I don't care.
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My positions are not extreme at all, I think prisoners working is a good thing, it saves us money and they get skills when they come out. Most people are happy to see prisoners working and if they find private prisons do a better job and do it cheaper then they are happy with that and that is the way things are going, EVEN in Liberal California.
And for fucks sakes it is WORK Duhla, not torture, WORK. Do you get it, finally?

Deal with it, YOU are the extremist and out of the majority.
 
Dalai_Lama said:
These prisoners are all merely human beings who have suffered a great deal in their life. I think that if we look down on them, they will only be carrying a chip on their shoulder with soceity, and refuse to cooperate. I think that allowing prisoners to work is a great thing! It humanizes them, and gives them a purpose. People begin to see these prisoners are people and not a bunch of lackies, that they can actually perform a task and complete it. It's not a bad thing. What is bad is the exploitation with using them as cheap labor. Why not make these prisoners work with Habitat for Humanity, United Way, or something that gives them a sense of pride instead? Working for a company that is trying to exploit you, yet you have no choice, is hell on the mind, I am sure. I would hope that someone would quit their job if their employer went to that level of exploitation of them.

It should not be our goal as a society to push these prisoners down and out, but we should rather try and tell them that we will forgive them once they spend some time thinking about what they have done.

As far as the economic effect of prisons and private prisons, I have to say that what is most economical is rehabilitating these prisoners and getting them out of there so that society does not have to continue to pay for their mistakes. I do not understand the philosophy that people tend to follow, that if we punish these people more, then they will be better members of society. This is not the case, this will make them worse members. They will feel shunned and unaccepted, and will never want to return to society. If you think that by treating these prioners horribly, it will prevent others from doing the same, it obviously hasn't worked. We need to live in a more peaceful environment.

As far as drug-laws, I have to agree with Darla, why are they so harsh on non-violent drug users? I think that drugs do nothing good for you, but that is no reason to lock someone up and punish them when they have not harmed anyone.
Click to expand...

It is work, not punishment, work. Work is part of life, we all work, do we feel punished by working? Of course not, nor should prisoners.
 
TheDanold said:
The drug laws are weakening if anything let's not forget, marijuana is a prime example, so I don't buy this whole "prison labor making more drug criminals"
Also, California is using private prisons, the place is completely dominated by Liberals, lefties here don't trust them too?
Click to expand...

California has a republican governor, and he's not the first, so I question the "dominated by liberals" thought. Additionally, how many actually know what's going on in these prisons? How many know what the prison/industrial complex has turned into. How many know that jobs are being lost to prison slaves?

[And lastly and by far most critical, prisoners report being HAPPIER in private prisons than public prisons. Does anyone really believe that would be so if the picture blackascoal paints were true?
Click to expand...

That's like asking a slave, "are you happy?". "Yes boss, I'm happy." What would you expect him to say while he's locked up and dependent on the system? Perhaps you didn't read some of the accounts of ex-prisoners who said they were nothing more than slaves. Perhaps you didn't read the accounts of prisoners being exposed to toxic chemicals. How many have been injured or abused in the for-profit system? Do you know? How would you know?

And beyond that, what difference does that make in a society of laws that blasts other nations for THEIR use of prison slave workers?

Prison labor is mostly good, yes it can make people nervous, but it also gives them skills for when they leave and from the article 95% of them will leave prison. A prisoner with more work skills will find it easier to find a job on leaving and thus less likely to reoffend.[/QUOTE]

Demonstrate the evidence that. Demonstate how slave labor has impacted the rates of ex-prisoners being less likely to re-offend .. in a society that incarcerates more people than any nation in the world .. BY FAR. If that were true, why are they still building more prisons that colleges and the rates of incarceration still rising?

I'm sure Americans like you found all kind of wonderful reasons to support the instituition of slavery. After all, somebody has to pick the cotton. And, don't forget, these people aren't really human.
 
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blackascoal said:
California has a republican governor, and he's not the first, so I question the "dominated by liberals" thought. Additionally, how many actually know what's going on in these prisons? How many know what the prison/industrial complex has turned into. How many know that jobs are being lost to prison slaves?



That's like asking a slave, "are you happy?". "Yes boss, I'm happy." What would you expect him to say while he's locked up and dependent on the system? Perhaps you didn't read some of the accounts of ex-prisoners who said they were nothing more than slaves. Perhaps you didn't read the accounts of prisoners being exposed to toxic chemicals. How many have been injured or abused in the for-profit system? Do you know? How would you know?

And beyond that, what difference does that make in a society of laws that blasts other nations for THEIR use of prison slave workers?

Prison labor is mostly good, yes it can make people nervous, but it also gives them skills for when they leave and from the article 95% of them will leave prison. A prisoner with more work skills will find it easier to find a job on leaving and thus less likely to reoffend.
Click to expand...

Demonstrate the evidence that. Demonstate how slave labor has impacted the rates of ex-prisoners being less likely to re-offend .. in a society that incarcerates more people than any nation in the world .. BY FAR. If that were true, why are they still building more prisons that colleges and the rates of incarceration still rising?

I'm sure Americans like you found all kind of wonderful reasons to support the instituition of slavery. After all, somebody has to pick the cotton. And, don't forget, these people aren't really human.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't it be better to ensure a better working environment and just compensation rather than just make them sit and stare at walls or work only in the kitchen?
 
TheDanold said:
It is work, not punishment, work. Work is part of life, we all work, do we feel punished by working? Of course not, nor should prisoners.
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Would you feel punished if you were forced to work for someone who cares nothing for you and only looks at you as profit, yet you gain nothing from them, not even respect? That is punishment. People who work outside of prison have the ability to negotiate their wages, their time, their benefits, where they will work from, what they will do... etc. You are not teaching these prisoners the value of work, you are teaching them how to be slaves and do as they are told.
 
you are teaching them how to be slaves and do as they are told.

Otherwise known, to authoritarians, as "foreplay".
 
Damocles said:
Wouldn't it be better to ensure a better working environment and just compensation rather than just make them sit and stare at walls or work only in the kitchen?
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If the interests of society is first and foremost, there are a plethora of ways that prison time could be better spent that looking at walls or working in the kitchen. EDUCATION should be the absolute prime first order of business. An educated individual is far more likely to return to society with increased chances for success than one who has been given menial job skills. There could even be time-related incentives for acquiring higher learning skills like timeoff for good behavior.

Not just academic education, but also great emphasis of life skills.

Society is not served by prison slave labor, corporations are.
 
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Damocles said:
Wouldn't it be better to ensure a better working environment and just compensation rather than just make them sit and stare at walls or work only in the kitchen?
Click to expand...


False choice: Either make them stare at walls, or make them do telemarketing for ATT.

They shouldn't be doing work for for-profit entities. That's work for law abiding americans.

There's plenty of public service work, that low-risk convicts can be made to do. Our state puts them on fire crews, to fight forest fires.
 
Dalai_Lama said:
Would you feel punished if you were forced to work for someone who cares nothing for you and only looks at you as profit, yet you gain nothing from them, not even respect? That is punishment. People who work outside of prison have the ability to negotiate their wages, their time, their benefits, where they will work from, what they will do... etc. You are not teaching these prisoners the value of work, you are teaching them how to be slaves and do as they are told.
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Correct

And .. as slaves do, they will rebel against that conditioning and feel justified committing crimes against the system which enslaved them.
 
blackascoal said:
If the interests of society is first and foremost, there are a plethora of ways that prison time could be better spent that looking at walls or working in the kitchen. EDUCATION should be the absolute prime first order of business. An educated individual is far more likely to return to society with increased chances for success than one who has been given menial job skills. There could even be time-related incentives for acquiring higher learning skills like timeoff for good behavior.

Not just academic education, but also great emphasis of life skills.

Society is not served by prison slave labor, corporations are.
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I agree in education, however a justly compensated job can give them experience they previously had never had. Most of your complaint is that they are "slaves" and have to work in dangerous work environments. That can be dealt with at the same time giving them more to do than what is already there for them.

Even in systems with education opportunities many of the prisoners choose not to take part in them. Would you prefer that they have nothing to do, or to make it compulsary to get educated?

Do you see no value in even menial work?
 
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