Question for pro-choicers

g r i n d said:
i'm actually pro-abortion, I don't play gotcha games on JPP, my questions are genuine because even though I think one way, I like to know how other people think and how their ideology is crafted.

Not many pro-choicers have spoken up in this thread yet, but I have found it interesting so far that the pro-choicers that have spoken up admit to believing that a womans sovreignty over her body is not unlimited. I find that very interesting and a bit surprising.

Personally if I could get pregant, I am trying to think of what my attitude would be to an effective parasite growing inside me, and I am pretty sure I would support blending up it's brains if need be. I am consistent on these issues, I believe in gun rights even if it means the death of some kids in a school shooting, and thus I also support abotions even if it means we have to crack some baby skulls. Though I am open to counter arguments on that front as my ideas on this are not fully formed.
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Pro-abortion and pro-choice aren't the same thing
 
StoneByStone said:
Because we were specifically talking about males.
Maybe try being genuine instead of obsessing over owning DA LIBS.
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Maybe you were; but this isn't a one gender problem or responsibility.

You should try taking your own advice; because this isn't about "owning" anyone, unless you're now projecting.
 
g r i n d said:
sex is a natural part of life and this doesn't seem to be a realistic solution. Don't you think we can do better than "abstain from all sex" vs. "or risk being stuck with a kid for the rest of your life" because the woman wouldn't abort a blastocyst?"
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I don't think men should be making laws about women's bodies and our control over what we do with them, in the reproductive sense.

Now let's say a guy and girl meet, they decide to get it on together, and being responsible adults they discuss bc first. The lady is on the Pill and the guy uses a condom. But something goes wrong and she finds out she's pregnant a few weeks later. Neither want to be parents, so both are okay with an abortion. Or she doesn't want to be a parent just yet, but he is willing and able to take the child and raise it on his own. What if he offered to pay all her pregnancy and delivery-related expenses, and not seek child support, in exchange for her giving birth? I don't think too many ppl would have a problem with that. But what if she decided she wants to be a mom, but he doesn't want to be a dad? Should he still be on the hook for child support?
 
MASON said:
Pro-abortion and pro-choice aren't the same thing
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yes they are. man up and don't be a pussy when it comes to your beliefs.

lets say for a moment we had a bunch of 2 year olds, and some people wanted to kill them. What would your opinion be on someone that says "well I'm not FOR killing the 2 year olds, but I support other peoples choice do so so"

Do you understand what a non-starter that is to someone that believes abortion is killing a baby?

You'd be like "that's fucking retarded, at the end of the day the kids are still getting killed"

Supporting the choice of abortion means you support the ability for abortions to happen. That makes one pro-abortion. People that are pro-choice believe in abortions at least sometimes. That implicitly means they are in favor of them under certain circumstances.

If you support pro-choice policies, it comes with consequences. Sometimes it's just nuking some rapidly dividing cells that isn't even as intelligent as a frog. On the more extreme end we have partial birth abortion, that while rare, does happen on occasion.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
But what if she decided she wants to be a mom, but he doesn't want to be a dad? Should he still be on the hook for child support?
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I don't think he should be, if for example he was willing to pay for an abortion/plan b or whatever. I don't think a guy should just be able to bail way into a pregnancy, but at the very early stages when it can be resolved by spending 50 bucks on plan B, I don't think that's fair to keep him on the hook either. It's not a baby at that point, it's literally nothing but cells. It only becomes a baby if the woman lets it. Again, it doesn't have to be one extreme or the other, I think we can find a reasonable solution that leaves both sides happy. I think this issue is so heated no one wants to sit down and "compromise" but honestly.... "no you can't pay me 50 bucks for the morning afterpill you are 100% stuck with a kid now that you will have by my choice alone" seems to not be a good option. It's not good for the health and morale of society either, imo.

Of course the government is always going to want the guy on the hook because the alternative is likely the government having to provide.
 
g r i n d said:
yes they are. man up and don't be a pussy when it comes to your beliefs.

lets say for a moment we had a bunch of 2 year olds, and some people wanted to kill them. What would your opinion be on someone that says "well I'm not FOR killing the 2 year olds, but I support other peoples choice do so so"

Do you understand what a non-starter that is to someone that believes abortion is killing a baby?

You'd be like "that's fucking retarded, at the end of the day the kids are still getting killed"

Supporting the choice of abortion means you support the ability for abortions to happen. That makes one pro-abortion. People that are pro-choice believe in abortions at least sometimes. That implicitly means they are in favor of them under certain circumstances.

If you support pro-choice policies, it comes with consequences. Sometimes it's just nuking some rapidly dividing cells that isn't even as intelligent as a frog. On the more extreme end we have partial birth abortion, that while rare, does happen on occasion.
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It's not the abortion as much,as the criminalization of women!That bothers me.
 
MASON said:
It's not the abortion as much,as the criminalization of women!That bothers me.
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it's a perfectly logical end result for those that believe that there is a baby in the womb. Even pro-choicers in this thread have a line where if the baby is viable they would not support it
 
g r i n d said:
I don't think he should be, if for example he was willing to pay for an abortion/plan b or whatever. I don't think a guy should just be able to bail way into a pregnancy, but at the very early stages when it can be resolved by spending 50 bucks on plan B, I don't think that's fair to keep him on the hook either. It's not a baby at that point, it's literally nothing but cells. It only becomes a baby if the woman lets it. Again, it doesn't have to be one extreme or the other, I think we can find a reasonable solution that leaves both sides happy. I think this issue is so heated no one wants to sit down and "compromise" but honestly.... "no you can't pay me 50 bucks for the morning afterpill you are 100% stuck with a kid now that you will have by my choice alone" seems to not be a good option. It's not good for the health and morale of society either, imo.

Of course the government is always going to want the guy on the hook because the alternative is likely the government having to provide.
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There is no compromise the right would accept.
 
MASON said:
It's more,like you have a certain amount of time to make up your mind
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the thing is, for many pro-choiceers the issue comes down to body autonomy and the vitality of the child is of little consequence. I believe a majority support first term abortions but not second term+, which is mostly reasonable imo.
 
StoneByStone said:
Is grasping at straws fun?
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I'm not sure but when you're done could you tell me??

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g r i n d said:
the thing is, for many pro-choiceers the issue comes down to body autonomy and the vitality of the child is of little consequence. I believe a majority support first term abortions but not second term+, which is mostly reasonable imo.
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I support abortion after birth, for up to 90 years in certain cases.
 
Howard the Duck said:
A line could have been agreed upon many years ago. Instead, the left hid behind Roe, and leftists continued to fall more in love with abortion.
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Nobody is in love with abortion. That is stupid. If the left wins, they will not make abortion mandatory. It will be us to the individual woman and her family. We do not want the state and government power to be absolute like the right does. You seek more government police power and more power over people's lives. You want more bureaucracies to examine and police women. More penalties and more pain for women in desperate circumstances.
 
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