Questions for survivalists

[apple0154]

This is a far cry from the dire predictions and threats you have posted prior to this. At the beginning pages ofthe thread you posted:

“Survivalists in a remote location may have a chance to deal with the odd straggler and even end up with a pot of homo sapien goulash but in an urban/suburban area, not a chance. If there is a situation like you describe, a duration of weeks or months, people are going to come a-callin'. I suggest a concrete panic room otherwise you'll either have house guests or no house.”
“Taking into account mob mentality you best take into account that once you fire that first shot you're a marked man.”
“Just look at the recent mob riots. Even the Police, which greatly out number the few survivalists, have difficulty with crowd control. It's wishful thinking a survivalist would survive unless they have a bunker of some sort. The mob will also have guns and access to things like construction equipment. Raise the blade in the bulldozer and CHARGE! Come out and share or be buried in the rubble that was once your home.”
“Survivalists in urban and suburban areas won't have a chance. To paraphrase George-the Wild West cowboy-Bush, "We'll smoke 'em out.”
“One or two people will not hold off a crowd of 50 or 100 hungry folks especially if they have young children. People will try to get in 24 hours a day or set the house on fire. They have nothing to lose and there's no one more dangerous than a person who has nothing to lose.”

Now it is "share two dinner rations"? And after that? What will those people do tomorrow and the next day and the next?

But that's just it. How does one know if a food ration may prevent the death of a child? Or antiseptic and a bandage prevent a massive infection from developing? And what happens after supplies run out?

The neighboring homes will have been cleaned out and the community moved on. How will you support your family then? How will a survivalist fare in a suburb where everything has been taken/used? They'll have to move on searching for food, alone. How will one family survive should they meet a group of 20 or 30 people? The group will not share because they will know a lone family is one of those survivalists as they would otherwise be part of a group. Why would a group share with someone whom they know never shared with anyone?

What future does the survivalist make for their children? They have only one person they can depend upon. Whether attacked by other people, an animal or an accident the demise of the survivalist/provider condemns the entire family to death.

Short term provisions, a great idea. Long term? Struggling to maintain the supplies and an outcast after the supplies run out. A lose-lose situation.

 

[Good Luck]

Its funny that the accusations aimed at the survivalists is that they are murderers, but atthe same time the threat is that the mobs will murder them for what they have. Pick one.

It is very simple, really. Apple hates anything to do with independence, liberty, or personal responsibility. The idea civilization would resemble an ant hill, termite mound, or bee hive where all are mindless drones of the collective.

Therefore, anyone who takes on the responsibility to assure their own survival in a major disaster is the epitome of evil. Those who band together, even if the purpose is to do murder, are good people. I would personally dread any civilization which would result from bands of murdering thieves - and between myself and the majority of people I know in my community, would do war to make sure it does not happen.

But then, Apple's estimate of what will result in the wake of a major wide-spread disaster is so far from the realm of reality as to strongly resemble a drug induced hallucination. The reality is those who survive without killing and stealing will be the ones who rebuild society, including those who survived by preparation. Those who try to survive by murder and theft will, first, be targets themselves by other marauding bands, and those who manage to live through will be hunted down by honest men like the subhuman savages they are.

Of course, the bottom line is Apple is simply desperate to continue to defend the ridiculous position that long term preparations are useless. From roving bands of murdering thugs burning them out, to all of Central America invading the U.S. (I actually laughed out loud at that one.), to surviving murdering thugs rebuilding society and ostracizing survivalists for the crime of surviving without their "help", it's all desperation to defend an asininely stupid position. It's almost as bad as the great 1/3 debate.

 

[WinterBorn]

But that's just it. How does one know if a food ration may prevent the death of a child? Or antiseptic and a bandage prevent a massive infection from developing? And what happens after supplies run out?

The neighboring homes will have been cleaned out and the community moved on. How will you support your family then? How will a survivalist fare in a suburb where everything has been taken/used? They'll have to move on searching for food, alone. How will one family survive should they meet a group of 20 or 30 people? The group will not share because they will know a lone family is one of those survivalists as they would otherwise be part of a group. Why would a group share with someone whom they know never shared with anyone?

What future does the survivalist make for their children? They have only one person they can depend upon. Whether attacked by other people, an animal or an accident the demise of the survivalist/provider condemns the entire family to death.

Short term provisions, a great idea. Long term? Struggling to maintain the supplies and an outcast after the supplies run out. A lose-lose situation.

Some flaws in your assumptions. The only way your scenario works out as stated is if the "survivalists" wait until all their supplies run out before venturing out to start rebuilding. Does that sound like the actions of someone who had the forethought to plan for and be prepared for the crisis?

Plus, the idea that the group (formerly a violent mob) would think that any small group tey encounter were unfit for joining the group because they survived alone. When they venture out, the survivalists will be well armed, well fed and be organized. The mob (or group) will see that as a huge asset for their community. And of the group that would be holding a grudge or be vindictive are not the sort I would want in my community anyway.

 

[Good Luck]

But that's just it. How does one know if a food ration may prevent the death of a child? Or antiseptic and a bandage prevent a massive infection from developing? And what happens after supplies run out?

Very simple: the LACK of that food ration WILL contribute to the death of the child. Nothing is assured, even without a disaster. Nothing guarantees the meal eaten this morning won't be wasted through accidental death a few minutes later. But NOT having that food ration places the child in MORE danger, which is an action not acceptable in a responsible parent.

Therefore it is the responsibility of the parent to assure that food ration reaches the moth of their child. As for when rations run out, then we make do with hunting, gathering, and farming. And, of course, there is always the possibility that infrastructure will be rebuilt before the supplies run out, which in turn means the more supplies are laid aside for disaster, the more likely they will outlast the crisis.

 

[apple0154]

Except that those who prepared for a long term situation will have prepared for growing their own and hunting their own. Those who didn't prepare will likely not be there.

It takes time to grow food. Again, one family struggling to survive is going to have a much harder time than a group of people.

What will they think? How about "Hey, those folks look like they have done well, maybe we should listen to them.".

LOL They'll have nothing to say as their supplies are gone. They are coming to join the group. The group is not coming to join them.

Its funny that the accusations aimed at the survivalists is that they are murderers, but at the same time the threat is that the mobs will murder them for what they have. Pick one.

Watching people die by refusing to help when capable of doing so may not be a legal definition of murder but the person whose child dies will not parse the difference.

 

[apple0154]

It is very simple, really. Apple hates anything to do with independence, liberty, or personal responsibility. The idea civilization would resemble an ant hill, termite mound, or bee hive where all are mindless drones of the collective.

Therefore, anyone who takes on the responsibility to assure their own survival in a major disaster is the epitome of evil. Those who band together, even if the purpose is to do murder, are good people. I would personally dread any civilization which would result from bands of murdering thieves - and between myself and the majority of people I know in my community, would do war to make sure it does not happen.

But then, Apple's estimate of what will result in the wake of a major wide-spread disaster is so far from the realm of reality as to strongly resemble a drug induced hallucination. The reality is those who survive without killing and stealing will be the ones who rebuild society, including those who survived by preparation. Those who try to survive by murder and theft will, first, be targets themselves by other marauding bands, and those who manage to live through will be hunted down by honest men like the subhuman savages they are.

Of course, the bottom line is Apple is simply desperate to continue to defend the ridiculous position that long term preparations are useless. From roving bands of murdering thugs burning them out, to all of Central America invading the U.S. (I actually laughed out loud at that one.), to surviving murdering thugs rebuilding society and ostracizing survivalists for the crime of surviving without their "help", it's all desperation to defend an asininely stupid position. It's almost as bad as the great 1/3 debate.

Right or wrong. Ant hills. Murderous drones. Try to understand we're talking about starving mobs. They will do what they have to to survive for the day.

All this talk about independence, liberty, or personal responsibility is the same talk the mobs heard when banks and CEO's walked away with millions. It was that sacred belief that everyone has a right to make money even if it results in the collapse of society. It won't be a great selling point if a crisis ensues anymore than someone who ran around yelling, "Don't touch me. I'm Royalty", when the French and US revolutions took place. :lol:

It's obvious you never picked up a history book. Revolutions result in a 180 change. The previous way of running society is not reinstated because it's the previous way that resulted in the revolution or crisis and we all know what led to this crisis and who benefited.

Do try a little bit of common sense.

 

[apple0154]

Some flaws in your assumptions. The only way your scenario works out as stated is if the "survivalists" wait until all their supplies run out before venturing out to start rebuilding. Does that sound like the actions of someone who had the forethought to plan for and be prepared for the crisis?

Plus, the idea that the group (formerly a violent mob) would think that any small group tey encounter were unfit for joining the group because they survived alone. When they venture out, the survivalists will be well armed, well fed and be organized. The mob (or group) will see that as a huge asset for their community. And of the group that would be holding a grudge or be vindictive are not the sort I would want in my community anyway.

It would depend on when the survivalists ventured out. As for being well armed the groups before them have hit the weapons stores and taken control of the food supplies. It's a different group of people running things. Some may call them Socialists.

One thing we can be sure of is the people will remember how they ended up in such a situation and those who believe in the "freedom" to take what they want and to hell with others will find living conditions/the rules quite different.

 

[WinterBorn]

It takes time to grow food. Again, one family struggling to survive is going to have a much harder time than a group of people.

Indeed it does. It also takes seeds, which the mob will probably have eaten. As I said before, the flaw in your logic is to think that the survivalists will wait until their stored food is gone to plant a garden.

LOL They'll have nothing to say as their supplies are gone. They are coming to join the group. The group is not coming to join them.

IF they are coming to join the group.

Watching people die by refusing to help when capable of doing so may not be a legal definition of murder but the person whose child dies will not parse the difference.

So what about the person who has enough food to survive the crisis, but gives it away and then starves?

 

[WinterBorn]

It would depend on when the survivalists ventured out. As for being well armed the groups before them have hit the weapons stores and taken control of the food supplies. It's a different group of people running things. Some may call them Socialists.

One thing we can be sure of is the people will remember how they ended up in such a situation and those who believe in the "freedom" to take what they want and to hell with others will find living conditions/the rules quite different.

But you have said over and over that the mob was going to take my food by force or burn me out. So they will be the ones who take what they want. I will only be keeping what is mine.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

That’s another thing you have backwards. When the community finds out that you and a few others hid food from them, squirreled it away for your own use, took “responsibility” to look after yourselves rather than share you’ll learn first hand just how murderous a mob can be.

just, wow!!!!!!

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

Some identifiable beliefs and actions of paranoid-related disorders include mistrust, taking offense easily, difficulty with forgiveness, defensive attitude in response to imagined criticism, preoccupation with hidden motives, fear of being deceived or taken advantage of, inability to relax, argumentative, abrupt, stubborn, self-righteous, and perfectionistic.​

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http://www.nmha.org/go/paranoia​

 

[WinterBorn]

Some identifiable beliefs and actions of paranoid-related disorders include mistrust, taking offense easily, difficulty with forgiveness, defensive attitude in response to imagined criticism, preoccupation with hidden motives, fear of being deceived or taken advantage of, inability to relax, argumentative, abrupt, stubborn, self-righteous, and perfectionistic.​

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http://www.nmha.org/go/paranoia​

Sounds like you are trying to make a point.

Care to tell us which of those apply to us? (and by 'us' I mean those of us who have prepared for a crisis?)

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

Facts and Tips about Paranoid personality

• Paranoid personality is a disorder which is distinguished by extreme doubt, dishonesty and unfriendliness with people.
• It causes problems in personal life and close contacts.
• Bad experiences in the past and fearful incidents are the root causes of the paranoid personality.
• Patients with this disorder must go through psychotherapy

http://www.depression-guide.com/paranoia.htm

 

[WinterBorn]

Facts and Tips about Paranoid personality

• Paranoid personality is a disorder which is distinguished by extreme doubt, dishonesty and unfriendliness with people.
• It causes problems in personal life and close contacts.
• Bad experiences in the past and fearful incidents are the root causes of the paranoid personality.
• Patients with this disorder must go through psychotherapy

http://www.depression-guide.com/paranoia.htm

Oh I see. No more discussion, just Cut & Paste nonsense.

Sorry, thats a waste of my time.

 

[WinterBorn]

Build a man a fire and you keep him warm for a day. Set a man on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.

 

[WinterBorn]

"Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water. And east is east and west is west, and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce, they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does." Groucho Marx

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

does anyone else notice how all these symptoms fit \\\troll/// to a T?

i've seen anyone more paranoid about guns and those who want to defend themselves.

 

[WinterBorn]

Lo and behold he deleted his pastings.

 

[dazie]

good grief it was painful to get through those last few pages.
gosh, the "group" has flip flopped so much that I don't know if they are going to kill the survivalists or try to barter with them.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

good grief it was painful to get through those last few pages. gosh, the "group" has flip flopped so much that I don't know if they are going to kill the survivalists or try to barter with them.

That's because you're stupid.