Racism Extinct? Or, Republicans just stupid?

According to Cypress's brainless theory, a black child born into a black millionaire family is more "disadvantaged" than a white child born into crushing poverty. We all see the obvious evidence of Cypress's stupidity, or his dishonesty, whichever it is. Which is it cypress?
 
Immie: But that is besides the point. However, I disagree with what you say here:



Immie: If the goal is to right the inequities then we're fighting an unwinnable war. We can never, ever right the inequities of slavery or even the hundred years of "freedom" blacks suffered under after slavery was abolished. It is impossible especially since all of those who were directly affected by slavery have now moved on to their eternal homes. But, I don't think the goal should be just to right those inequities. The goal should be to eliminate racial hatred for the future.


Legal tools to address racism and inequality are absolutely part of the mix. It's not the government's job to cleanse hearts and minds of all vestiges of racism. That has to come from american society at large.

Its the government's job to enforce equality, fair treatment, and equal protection under the law.

To that end, we have some very modest tools, like Affirmative Action, Small Business Loan Adminstration, and other public functions that mitigate a very undeniable problem: if you have black skin, you are automatically born into a disadvantage in this country, from the moment you leave the womb.

Well, friend, I have to disagree with you especially on AA. It only makes racial tensions worse and that IS a major part of the problem. Not to mention the fact that it is ineffective in the first place.

Immie
 
But, can you explain to me why some people think it is wrong for me as a white person to be proud of the good things that my race has accomplished and to want to have my heritage seen as good in some ways too? I know my race is guilty of some pretty horrific things. I'm not denying that. But, we get blasted whenever we try and talk about our heritage. I honestly don't understand this. Well, I do understand it. It is because it is not the politically correct thing to do. But because something is not politically correct doesn't make it wrong.

Sure, if some fool was talking about white supremacy, I'm right there beside you or maybe in front of you, shouting down the jackass, but believe it or not... I'm not 100% evil simply because I am white. ;)

Why is it always wrong for me to want my children to know about my heritage in the same way you want your children to know about yours?

I am struggling with even posting this, because I don't like the word proud in the first sentence, but I hope you will understand what I am attempting to say here.

Immie

I certainly understand what you're saying and I appreciate your sincerity.

I don't think it';s wrong for anybody to be proud of who and what they are as long as it's not based on the denigration of others.

I think the difference in perspective and why many are turned off about "white pride" is because that term has been hijacked by white hate groups. Honestly, I think your argument should be with them, not those who are trying to keep maintain in this country.

So-called "white pride" has been the mantra of horrific evil .. and if "black pride" was associated with a long and ugly history of slavery, lynchings, murder, rape, and terrorism, I would be facing the same dilemma you are.

All one really has to do to see the affirmation of white pride is to turn on the TV. Television SCREAMS white pride everyday and is not representative of today's society. In fact, virtually all mainstream media shouts white pride .. which made in necessary for blacks, asians, hispanics and eveyone else to create their own perspectives and avenues of affirmation.

Take something as simple as "Miss America." It became necessary for blacks to celebrate our own vision of beauty as it was clear that Miss America did not represent our perspective or what is beautiful in black women. Miss Black America is the representation of that perspective. Even when black women were acknowledged by white America it was often based on how close to looking like white women they were.

It was hardly needed to call Miss America, Miss White America because essentially that's who she was.

It is unfortunate that we aren't just Americans, but that isn't the fault of those who have been shut out of the mainstream for hundreds of years.

I agree that your children should know of your heritage, but American history that has been taught to American children IS your heritage. It was necessary to ensure African and African American history was not only being taught to our children, but should be taught to all children to give them a balanced and realistic view of the world.

Religion is the affirmation of white pride and religious doctrine and stories have been altered/created to ensure the place of whites, even when it could not have possibly been the case.

Jesus could not have possibly looked like the Montana biker dude of long blond hair and blue eyes that has been forced into Christianity. The painting of Jesus is the painting of Michaelangelo's cousin/lover but is a long ass way from the depiction of the historical Jesus of the bible (hair like wool and bronzed feet). Besides, how do you take a white baby to Egypt to hide it?

One of the most sacred monuments in Europe is the Black Madonna holding her black baby Jesus. Tens of thousands of europeans, even in Polnad, travel long distances to pay homage to the Black Madonna every year. Would white Americans be christians if Jesus was black? .. I don't think so.

The point is that the affirmation of whiteness is everywhere in America and I don't think your children will have much problem recognizing that. I have to ensure that my children and all black children have to opportunity to recognize that there is no such thing as white superiority just as there is no such thing as black superiority. Often that view has to be forced into American society .. a society that is comfortable with RELATIVE freedom and RELATIVE recognition for non-white people.

I feel you my brother, but such is the consequence of living in a racist society.
 
marijuana laws are racist.
Started to quiet down blacks.
800,000 kids in jail for pot.
Wanna bet on the percentage of blacks is.
 
Well, friend, I have to disagree with you especially on AA. It only makes racial tensions worse and that IS a major part of the problem. Not to mention the fact that it is ineffective in the first place.

Immie

I disagree my friend.

First, it should be noted that AA has helped white women more than any other segment of this society. .. and AA is also a crucial part of programs for the disadvantaged. White men have had an unfair advantage in this society for as long as it has existed.

African-Americans have only been relatively free in this country for 42 years and to simply suggest that racism has been called off and now everyone has an equal chance disregards that whites have a 400 year headstart, often with gains from oppressive practices.

Additionally, in many cases AA has absolutely worked to ensure a fair and equal playing field, and has to its credit, many accomplishments.
 
marijuana laws are racist.
Started to quiet down blacks.
800,000 kids in jail for pot.
Wanna bet on the percentage of blacks is.

That isn't just happenstance sir .. it is contrived discrimination as the overwhelming number of people who use marijuana and illegal drugs are white .. but blacks pay a much heavier consequence.
 
I certainly understand what you're saying and I appreciate your sincerity.

I don't think it';s wrong for anybody to be proud of who and what they are as long as it's not based on the denigration of others.

I think the difference in perspective and why many are turned off about "white pride" is because that term has been hijacked by white hate groups. Honestly, I think your argument should be with them, not those who are trying to keep maintain in this country.

So-called "white pride" has been the mantra of horrific evil .. and if "black pride" was associated with a long and ugly history of slavery, lynchings, murder, rape, and terrorism, I would be facing the same dilemma you are.

All one really has to do to see the affirmation of white pride is to turn on the TV. Television SCREAMS white pride everyday and is not representative of today's society. In fact, virtually all mainstream media shouts white pride .. which made in necessary for blacks, asians, hispanics and eveyone else to create their own perspectives and avenues of affirmation.

Take something as simple as "Miss America." It became necessary for blacks to celebrate our own vision of beauty as it was clear that Miss America did not represent our perspective or what is beautiful in black women. Miss Black America is the representation of that perspective. Even when black women were acknowledged by white America it was often based on how close to looking like white women they were.

It was hardly needed to call Miss America, Miss White America because essentially that's who she was.

It is unfortunate that we aren't just Americans, but that isn't the fault of those who have been shut out of the mainstream for hundreds of years.

I agree that your children should know of your heritage, but American history that has been taught to American children IS your heritage. It was necessary to ensure African and African American history was not only being taught to our children, but should be taught to all children to give them a balanced and realistic view of the world.

Religion is the affirmation of white pride and religious doctrine and stories have been altered/created to ensure the place of whites, even when it could not have possibly been the case.

Jesus could not have possibly looked like the Montana biker dude of long blond hair and blue eyes that has been forced into Christianity. The painting of Jesus is the painting of Michaelangelo's cousin/lover but is a long ass way from the depiction of the historical Jesus of the bible (hair like wool and bronzed feet). Besides, how do you take a white baby to Egypt to hide it?

One of the most sacred monuments in Europe is the Black Madonna holding her black baby Jesus. Tens of thousands of europeans, even in Polnad, travel long distances to pay homage to the Black Madonna every year. Would white Americans be christians if Jesus was black? .. I don't think so.

The point is that the affirmation of whiteness is everywhere in America and I don't think your children will have much problem recognizing that. I have to ensure that my children and all black children have to opportunity to recognize that there is no such thing as white superiority just as there is no such thing as black superiority. Often that view has to be forced into American society .. a society that is comfortable with RELATIVE freedom and RELATIVE recognition for non-white people.

I feel you my brother, but such is the consequence of living in a racist society.

I understand what you are saying here and most of it makes sense, but something I was trying to point out was that WE, white America, are constantly made to feel guilty about our heritage. I had nothing to do with the issues that brought this world where it is today in regards to racial tensions, yet I pay the price for the transgressions of my race. If, I myself could change it, I would. But there is nothing that can be done in the near future that will accomplish that goal.

I have an argument with the white supremist groups, but those people are about as intelligent as a tree stump. It is useless to discuss anything with them

Miss America? Honestly, I haven't given the pagaent much more than a thought or two since I was a young teen thinking "wow they're hot" and nowadays they aren't half as good looking as most tv actresses. I'm not sure what you mean by "Miss White America". They didn't change the title did they?

I don't have a problem teaching Black History at least not until it becomes militant. When it gets to that point, I start to frown upon it, if you know what I mean.

Personally, I wish we'd dump the "Black History" Month idea and have history spread out throughout the year. I've always enjoyed the historical information regardless of which figure and/or race is depicted at any given time. I'd like to know a lot more about those figures, but the idea of separation (which is what I get when I hear "Black History Month") turns me off. We're all human and as far as I am concerned the advances made by people of any race, be it black, asian, semite or caucasion are advances for all humanity and should be taught in our history at all times. What I mean is we should "desegregate" History.

I feel you my brother, but such is the consequence of living in a racist society.

True, but the point I wanted to make was that under AA we are not ever going to end the racist society. I do not believe you can end discrimination by continuing to discriminate and honestly that is the outcome of AA. If we are ever going to attain a truly colorblind society (and I have my doubts this is possible) then our government must end its promotion of discrimination.

Immie
 
I disagree my friend.

First, it should be noted that AA has helped white women more than any other segment of this society

That doesn't matter. It is good to help women regardless of race attain equality. This can be attained without the governmental extortion program known as Affirmative Action.

AA is also a crucial part of programs for the disadvantaged.

Again the assistance to those disadvantaged children, most, but not all, of whom are born to black familes can be accomplished without referring to race. The black community has some major problems that it needs to be addressed. It is unfortunate that so many children are born to single parent families and this is an issue that affects the black community in an extreme way. This leads to making an already difficult situation of an underprivileged child even worse. But, again, accomplishing assistance to these children can be done regardless of race.

White men have had an unfair advantage in this society for as long as it has existed.

Yeah, I know, and it is ALL my fault! :D

African-Americans have only been relatively free in this country for 42 years and to simply suggest that racism has been called off and now everyone has an equal chance disregards that whites have a 400 year headstart, often with gains from oppressive practices.

I would never suggest such a thing. Racism still exists today and I don't think it is getting a whole heck of a lot better either. However, I don't believe that the way to improve racial relations is to extort it out of whites. I hate to say it, but whites need to be taught a lesson and we won't learn that lesson if we are continually beaten over the head with the sins of our fathers. That method only breeds the idiotic skinheads.

Additionally, in many cases AA has absolutely worked to ensure a fair and equal playing field, and has to its credit, many accomplishments.

Many accomplishments? Do you mean working to instill further racial tensions? Because that is about all it has truly accomplished. None of those accomplishments you speak about could not have been accomplished with a program that was targeted at disadvantaged people regardless of race.

It may not come out this way, but I truly would like to see a "colorblind society". I despise bigots and bigotry.

Immie
 
That doesn't matter. It is good to help women regardless of race attain equality. This can be attained without the governmental extortion program known as Affirmative Action.

Please demonstrate where this has happened before government intervention. I can give you a long history of demonstration that what you've said here is not supported by history, or fact. I do not question your belief in equal rights, I question your methodology.

I continue to use the undeniable .. more than 360 years of waiting for what you believe happens naturally to manifest itself to no avail, and only 42 years of removing the yoke of oppression .. and government was the hand that lifted that yoke. Unfortunately I do not have the luxury of philosophical comparisons or unproven ideas in living with the deep rooted reality of a racist America as you may have my brother.

I respect you opinion, but it ignores the mirror. It rejects history, pattern, and even current events.

Again the assistance to those disadvantaged children, most, but not all, of whom are born to black familes can be accomplished without referring to race. The black community has some major problems that it needs to be addressed. It is unfortunate that so many children are born to single parent families and this is an issue that affects the black community in an extreme way. This leads to making an already difficult situation of an underprivileged child even worse. But, again, accomplishing assistance to these children can be done regardless of race.

There are indeed major problems in black communities but they didn't occur in a bubble. There will always be major problems in minority communities under attack. I suggest that you study the war on drugs, the disparity in prison sentencing, and the astronomical numbers of blacks who are incarcerated for crimes that whites do in far greater numbers. You can start from there and ask yourself if locking away large numbers of any demographic would cause major problems? .. And don't skip right past that question because it should offer great insight into the question that you asked about major problems in the black community.

On the issue of children, I remain forever at awe by the apathetic dismissal of need in what once was the most powerful nation on earth. It amazes me. How much is too much? We're talking about children .. any children .. anybodys chidren. They're children, and how much treasure does a great nation before it puts the interests of children above all ideological thought .. especially one that claims to be religious.

Oh how God loves us .. we are his special people .. so special that we get to run arond the planet and murder, blow apart, and even MELT innocent children of innocent parents.

Poverty in America? .. What's that?

Yeah, I know, and it is ALL my fault! :D

You know better my friend and I know this is meant in sarcasm.

I would never suggest such a thing. Racism still exists today and I don't think it is getting a whole heck of a lot better either. However, I don't believe that the way to improve racial relations is to extort it out of whites. I hate to say it, but whites need to be taught a lesson and we won't learn that lesson if we are continually beaten over the head with the sins of our fathers. That method only breeds the idiotic skinheads.

With all due respect my brother, if whites haven't learned from 400 years of history, it's only because they don't want to learn. The good news is that a great many Americans have learned. It's much easier to turn one's head at the obvious, particularly when it does not directly affect you. Americans have been conditioned to turn their heads. When I was growing up and learning African-American history and the horrors of slavery, I used to ask myself where were the good people. What in the fuck were the good people doing while this horror existed for hundreds of years? As I grew older I found out what they were doing .. turning their heads .. no different than today.

Many accomplishments? Do you mean working to instill further racial tensions? Because that is about all it has truly accomplished. None of those accomplishments you speak about could not have been accomplished with a program that was targeted at disadvantaged people regardless of race.

That makes no sense. You acknowledge that racism still exists today, can you imagine what it was like then? And again, you're speaking in hypotheticals that did not exist, not in tearms of the reality. You're speaking in "could", I'm speaking of what was and had always existed.

Your argument is centered much on concern for upsetting white people who don't want change, or it "further instilling racism." Frankly, I'm not really concerned about upsetting people who lack humanity, or am I concerned about it futher instilling racism. Trust me, if AA tipped someone over the line into being a racist, that person was already a racist. There are plenty of enlightened Americans of all races that support mechanism of equality .. the kind of people who can look in the mirror. Spending a lot of time concerned about those who turn their heads is counterproductive to the forces of change.

It may not come out this way, but I truly would like to see a "colorblind society". I despise bigots and bigotry.

I do not question your sincerity. I despise bigot and bigotry as well, but I do not want to see a "colorblind society." I never want to pretend to ignore what I see. What I want is a multi-cultural society that appreciates the differences and wonder of people and culture. America does not understand multi-culturalism.

We "tolerate" other cultures. That is anti-intellectual.

We can argue racism and multi-culturalism from a lot of different perspectives, but the fact that it's anti-intellectual is most glaring.
 
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I understand what you are saying here and most of it makes sense, but something I was trying to point out was that WE, white America, are constantly made to feel guilty about our heritage. I had nothing to do with the issues that brought this world where it is today in regards to racial tensions, yet I pay the price for the transgressions of my race. If, I myself could change it, I would. But there is nothing that can be done in the near future that will accomplish that goal.

But as you say, it is your heritage. There are periods and occurances of African history that I am not proud of, but it is my heritage. Assuming that you are white, suggesting that you pay a price for being white in a nation dominated by whites is hard for me to understand. The necessary controls put in place to ensure a better American society pales in comparison to the consequences of a racist society.

There is something that can be done about it .. and there have ben things done about it that are undeniable. What ended Jim Crow Laws? .. The government did acting as an arm of the will of the people.

I have an argument with the white supremist groups, but those people are about as intelligent as a tree stump. It is useless to discuss anything with them

Miss America? Honestly, I haven't given the pagaent much more than a thought or two since I was a young teen thinking "wow they're hot" and nowadays they aren't half as good looking as most tv actresses. I'm not sure what you mean by "Miss White America". They didn't change the title did they?

I don't have a problem teaching Black History at least not until it becomes militant. When it gets to that point, I start to frown upon it, if you know what I mean.

Personally, I wish we'd dump the "Black History" Month idea and have history spread out throughout the year. I've always enjoyed the historical information regardless of which figure and/or race is depicted at any given time. I'd like to know a lot more about those figures, but the idea of separation (which is what I get when I hear "Black History Month") turns me off. We're all human and as far as I am concerned the advances made by people of any race, be it black, asian, semite or caucasion are advances for all humanity and should be taught in our history at all times. What I mean is we should "desegregate" History.

Without emphasis on Black History, black history wasn't being taught. Why shouldn't black children be taught their history, or be taught distorted history. King Tut and Nefertiti were black, the builders of the Pyramids were black .. which is why the Assyrians cut the noses of the Sphynx when stealing that history. Hannibal helped to civilize europe. Why shouldn't black children know this and much other fascinating history? Until it was forced to be taught, it wasn't.

As far as the militancy, that also should be taught to all Americans, just as the militancy of the Boston Tea Party should be taught. It's history.

True, but the point I wanted to make was that under AA we are not ever going to end the racist society. I do not believe you can end discrimination by continuing to discriminate and honestly that is the outcome of AA. If we are ever going to attain a truly colorblind society (and I have my doubts this is possible) then our government must end its promotion of discrimination.

Immie

In the meantime, while we wait for things to occur naturally, even though they never have, there must be mechanisms in place to protect Americans from the evil, irrespective or whether or not everybody agrees.
 
But as you say, it is your heritage. There are periods and occurances of African history that I am not proud of, but it is my heritage. Assuming that you are white, suggesting that you pay a price for being white in a nation dominated by whites is hard for me to understand. The necessary controls put in place to ensure a better American society pales in comparison to the consequences of a racist society.

There is something that can be done about it .. and there have ben things done about it that are undeniable. What ended Jim Crow Laws? .. The government did acting as an arm of the will of the people.



Without emphasis on Black History, black history wasn't being taught. Why shouldn't black children be taught their history, or be taught distorted history. King Tut and Nefertiti were black, the builders of the Pyramids were black .. which is why the Assyrians cut the noses of the Sphynx when stealing that history. Hannibal helped to civilize europe. Why shouldn't black children know this and much other fascinating history? Until it was forced to be taught, it wasn't.

As far as the militancy, that also should be taught to all Americans, just as the militancy of the Boston Tea Party should be taught. It's history.



In the meantime, while we wait for things to occur naturally, even though they never have, there must be mechanisms in place to protect Americans from the evil, irrespective or whether or not everybody agrees.

We're paying for it in blatantly anti-white discrimination policies such as affirmative action. There's your proof, racist shiteater.
 
asshat no wonder office depot is the best you can do.
I need a good laugh. Tell us the last school you went to.
 
so your ashamed of your school and your shit job.
Blamming as only seems like the easy way out.
Oh come on. You know this tiddlywink never matriculated from anything. I'm not entirely sure whether he's still in school or has dropped out and is working in some crappy job somewhere. Doesn't really make much difference, either way, though.

:cof1:
 
12% of black men between 24 and 34 are in some phase of the prison system, largely due to the Drug War.

End the War on Drugs. End it for black people, end it for white people, but end it.

A nation which continues to imprison such huge numbers of its own cannot be sustained.
 
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