Reality check on electric cars

[Into the Night]

For some reason Conservatives HATE EV's.

Nah. We just hate the way government subsidizes them and tries to require their purchase. That's just fascism. It is theft.

If you want an EV, go buy one. Don't expect anyone to buy it for you or give you tax breaks without someone (like us) bellyaching about it.

I mean I understand that EV's are still improving and there ARE real problems with safety and environmental impact of Li batteries but as you noted and as I noted, there's new battery tech on the horizon.

Sodium ion batteries have a high internal resistance, making them unsuitable for EV's. The battery is also much heavier, reducing range, and takes much longer to charge due to the internal resistance.

Eons ago I was doing a postdoc on H2 storage for fuel cell vehicles. I went to a conference on transportation fuels in Norway and it was clear at that point that if H2 storage was "solved" it would mean fuel cells would become the standard for vehicles, but if it didn't get "solved" then it would always be a small segment. The intervening couple decades have shown that the solution to safe storage of H2 is yet to be achieved.

You are making shit up again. You never did a postdoc anything. Storing hydrogen is quite practical. Perhaps you've seen some hydrogen stations around the L.A. area.
Fueling a hydrogen vehicle is another story. Due to the effects of the ideal gas law, the nozzle literally freezes to the fueling port on the car. Even in L.A., it can take a half an hour to thaw. You are stuck at the pump for that time, and no one else can fuel at that pump.
Further, fuel cells are not instant power. It takes time for them to come up to power, requiring a large battery pack to act as ballast. These are typically the LI-ion cells popular in EVs.

But EV's are improving and getting more popular. We got a Chevy Bolt with 300 miles on a charge and it is a FANTASTIC vehicle. We have solar on our house so we don't even pay for the fuel for the car! It's amazing.

You are lying again. The Chevy Bolt does not have a 300 mile range. You obviously don't own one. Using solely the weenie solar panels on a house will require approximately a week to charge a Chevy Bolt (note that it does not charge at night and is even more limited in charge rate on overcast days).

Do I wish Li ion batteries were safer or less environmentally impactful? Sure! 100%. And I would GLADLY put my money to seeing that improve as opposed to our non-stop subsidizing of the petroleum industry.

So you would rather destroy the environment using batteries than gasoline. Gotit.

No petroleum industry, no electric cars.

 

[Into the Night]

It's just the beginning, just the early stages of development. You live in the past my dear, I am sure a horse and buggy will suit you just fine.

It is YOU living in the past. Electric cars are older than gasoline cars...a lot older.

 

[Into the Night]

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/consumers-ready-buy-electric-vehicle-today-survey/626829/

Argument from randU fallacy. Quoting made up numbers is just quoting random numbers.

 

[Walt]

Ian Haworth: In seven years, you'd dave $4,700 on gas. That's $670 a year. The average electric vehicle costs $56,437. So in just 84 years, you'll make your money back!

You assume that EVs are free, which I am sorry to tell you they are not. The average car price is almost $50k, so the EV costs about $6,437 more. If as you claim it saves $670 a year, you would hit the breakeven point in 9.6 years. Electric cars tend to be luxury cars with high tech features like self driving, and your guess at how much they save is a bit low, so it might be significantly less.

Whatever it is, it is not 84 years.

TheBlaze

Not an quote, so it is just what a Neo-Nazi website thinks Buttigieg is thinking... Which is to say not a real news story.

 

[Into the Night]

You assume that EVs are free, which I am sorry to tell you they are not.

Word stuffing. No one said EVs are free.

The average car price is almost $50k,

WRONG. A gasoline car of the same size of an EV is almost half the cost of the EV.

so the EV costs about $6,437 more.

WRONG. More like $26,437 more.

If as you claim it saves $670 a year, you would hit the breakeven point in 9.6 years.

Math errors.

Electric cars tend to be luxury cars with high tech features like self driving, and your guess at how much they save is a bit low, so it might be significantly less.

No car sold today is self driving.

Whatever it is, it is not 84 years.

His math is closer than yours!

EV's require gasoline and diesel engines to exist. No oil, no EV's.

 

[Walt]

WRONG. A gasoline car of the same size of an EV is almost half the cost of the EV.

I can buy an EV the same size as a Ferrari for one 20th the price.

EV's require gasoline and diesel engines to exist. No oil, no EV's.

Electricity is required for gasoline engines to work, but not diesel engines. There is no requirement for gasoline to exist for electrical engines to work.

 

[Into the Night]

I can buy an EV the same size as a Ferrari for one 20th the price.

So? An EV is no Ferrari.

Electricity is required for gasoline engines to work, but not diesel engines.

It is required for both.

There is no requirement for gasoline to exist for electrical engines to work.

Yes there is. No oil, no EV's. It is not possible to mine, ship, manufacture, or ship final product without the use of gasoline and other oil products.
The EV itself makes use of oil products just to run.

 

[Nordberg]

So? An EV is no Ferrari.

It is required for both.

Yes there is. No oil, no EV's. It is not possible to mine, ship, manufacture, or ship final product without the use of gasoline and other oil products.
The EV itself makes use of oil products just to run.

You repeatedly lie about the cost of EVs . We are not fooled by how selective you are. EVs , like the Bolt, are cheaper than most ICEs and you save money on gas and maintenance immediately. There are many makers coming out with even cheaper EVs. Performance of EV.s in general.,is far superior to ICEs. The first thing new owners are surprised by is the acceleration. EVs also get a 7500 dollar tax break.

 

[Lao Tse]

You repeatedly lie about the cost of EVs . We are not fooled by how selective you are. EVs , like the Bolt, are cheaper than most ICEs and you save money on gas and maintenance immediately. There are many makers coming out with even cheaper EVs. Performance of EV.s in general.,is far superior to ICEs. The first thing new owners are surprised by is the acceleration.

what about charging costs, and the strain on the electric grid if everyone had an e.v.?

you're a dumb idiot.

 

[Walt]

It is required for both.

Gasoline engines require spark plugs, and therefore electricity to work. Diesel engines only require initial movement to work.

 

[Nordberg]

what about charging costs, and the strain on the electric grid if everyone had an e.v.?

you're a dumb idiot.

Dumb idiot? You actually typed that. Are you a smart idiot?
Charging costs are a fraction of gas prices, under 25 percent. The electrical grid is being built since we first started using electricity. It is being strengthened as we use it more and more. There are people who use solar panels to charge their EVs. Cities are building under-the-road charging strips so that as you drive on the road, your EV gets charged. Rightys keep bitching about EVs as if the technology has ended. It is improving . It gets better and cheaper as we go along. When you are still using your horse and buggy, we will have self-charging EVs across the globe.

 

[Lao Tse]

Dumb idiot? You actually typed that. Are you a smart idiot?
Charging costs are a fraction of gas prices, under 25 percent. The electrical grid is being built since we first started using electricity. It is being strengthened as we use it more and more. There are people who use solar panels to charge their EVs. Cities are building under-the-road charging strips so that as you drive on the road, your EV gets charged. Rightys keep bitching about EVs as if the technology has ended. It is improving . It gets better and cheaper as we go along. When you are still using your horse and buggy, we will have self-charging EVs across the globe.

you're an idiot.

 

[Lao Tse]

self charging?

that will make your hands hairy, dude.

 

[Into the Night]

You repeatedly lie about the cost of EVs.

You are describing yourself again.

We are not fooled by how selective you are.

I am not being selective. YOU are.

EVs , like the Bolt, are cheaper than most ICEs

No, it isn't. The Chevy Bolt currently retails for $31,000 to $34,000. A similar sized ICE, such as the Subaru Impreza costs only $20,000.

and you save money on gas and maintenance immediately.

Nope. New ICE cars don't need a lot of maintenance. About the same as an EV.

There are many makers coming out with even cheaper EVs.

Fiction.

Performance of EV.s in general.,is far superior to ICEs.

Fiction.

The first thing new owners are surprised by is the acceleration.

IF you get the more expensive EV, just like the more expensive ICE.

EVs also get a 7500 dollar tax break.

They also get subsidies to make them. Both are theft. Don't go crowing about stealing money.

 

[Nordberg]

You are describing yourself again.

I am not being selective. YOU are.

No, it isn't. The Chevy Bolt currently retails for $31,000 to $34,000. A similar sized ICE, such as the Subaru Impreza costs only $20,000.

Nope. New ICE cars don't need a lot of maintenance. About the same as an EV.

Fiction.

Fiction.

IF you get the more expensive EV, just like the more expensive ICE.

They also get subsidies to make them. Both are theft. Don't go crowing about stealing money.

As usual, complete crap. EVs are quick. They provide instant torque. https://www.drivespark.com/off-beat...explained/articlecontent-pf147497-035208.html You do not even try. You are playing a game. here are maintenance facts. https://www.reviewgeek.com/119554/do-evs-really-require-less-maintenance/ The problem is, when you are presented with facts, you do not look them up. No, you might actually learn something. You just parrot your previous wrong posts and use a bad fallacy or 2,

 

[Into the Night]

what about charging costs, and the strain on the electric grid if everyone had an e.v.?

you're a dumb idiot.

In the SODC (formerly California), EV owners are already being told they can't charge their car due to strain on what's left of their section of the WRIC. The remaining WRIC has to isolate the SODC to protect itself, otherwise the entire WRIC is threatened, affecting the entire western US and even sections of Canada.
The SODC has very little generating capacity. They've dismantled their power plants and import almost all of their power now.

Charging those cars also will require additional generating capacity in any interconnect (grid). This will necessarily be supplied by coal, oil, and natural gas.
Making those cars will require strip mining huge amounts of lithium. There simply isn't enough, which will make lithium horrifically expensive.

Even with less than 1% of the cars on the road being EV's, prices are already starting to rise.

Lithium prices
Cobalt prices

 

[Into the Night]

Gasoline engines require spark plugs, and therefore electricity to work. Diesel engines only require initial movement to work.

Both require electricity, even though diesel engines have no spark plugs.

And I don't have to wait hours to charge them. It just put fuel in them and go.

 

[Into the Night]

Dumb idiot? You actually typed that. Are you a smart idiot?

Insulting him does not change what he said or the truthfulness of it.

Charging costs are a fraction of gas prices, under 25 percent.

And you just might recoup the higher cost of the EV in several decades, all while waiting around to charge your car.

The electrical grid is being built since we first started using electricity. It is being strengthened as we use it more and more.

Okay. Let's strengthen it. That will require a LOT of new transmission lines to be laid, a LOT of new generating plants that burn coal, oil, or natural gas to be built, many more substations, and a vast expansion of distribution lines capacity.

Not cheap, and still burn coal, oil, or natural gas to charge your 'green' EV AND handle the extra wasted power on the grid itself.

There are people who use solar panels to charge their EVs.

It will take several days to charge an EV on solar power alone, assuming your typical home solar power setup (also subsidized, which is paid for by theft).

Cities are building under-the-road charging strips so that as you drive on the road, your EV gets charged.

Who's going to pay for it?

Rightys keep bitching about EVs as if the technology has ended.

You seem to think technology has ended with ICE cars. It hasn't.

It is improving.

It is improving everywhere, except where socialist ideas like yours are prevalent.

It gets better and cheaper as we go along.

No. It gets more expensive. Lithium is NOT a renewable resource.

When you are still using your horse and buggy,

ICE cars are not a horse and buggy (which, BTW, are still used!).

we will have self-charging EVs across the globe.

TANSTAAFL. Now you are just ignoring the 1st law of thermodynamics.

 

[Into the Night]

As usual, complete crap. EVs are quick.

No. They require a long time to charge.

They provide instant torque.

No. They require a long time to charge. Let's see you do donuts in an EV. Let's see you go off road with an EV. Let's see an EV compete in the Baja race. Let's see an EV do a tractor pull. Let's see your Chevy Bolt tow a significant load. The comparable Impreza sure can. Let's see an electric aircraft that can carry a useful payload. Let's see an electric container ship.

You do not even try. You are playing a game.

You are describing yourself.

here are maintenance facts.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You are afraid to change oil????????!? Do you realize how many oil changes it would take to recoup the higher cost of an EV???????!?

The problem is, when you are presented with facts, you do not look them up.

I know what it costs to change the oil, dude. Also, did you know that EV's also require an oil change from time to time??? They also use liquid coolant!

No, you might actually learn something.

I already do. I know how to do all the maintenance on my own car. You obviously don't!

You just parrot your previous wrong posts and use a bad fallacy or 2

The fallacies you commit are YOURS, dude. Only YOU can correct it.

 

[Lao Tse]

In the SODC (formerly California), EV owners are already being told they can't charge their car due to strain on what's left of their section of the WRIC. The remaining WRIC has to isolate the SODC to protect itself, otherwise the entire WRIC is threatened, affecting the entire western US and even sections of Canada.
The SODC has very little generating capacity. They've dismantled their power plants and import almost all of their power now.

Charging those cars also will require additional generating capacity in any interconnect (grid). This will necessarily be supplied by coal, oil, and natural gas.
Making those cars will require strip mining huge amounts of lithium. There simply isn't enough, which will make lithium horrifically expensive.

Even with less than 1% of the cars on the road being EV's, prices are already starting to rise.

Lithium prices
Cobalt prices

yep.

nordberg has his head up his ass, as usual.