Reality check on electric cars

T. A. Gardner said:
No, the fossil fuel industry doesn't, and you are just repeating a lie promulgated by the radical Left environmentalist front, who themselves are huge whopping liars.

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You should note how small a part of GDP the US subsidies are, and that most of those are actually grants and other contracts into things like R&D for government like the military and not just direct cash infusions--unlike the solar and wind industry that has to be propped up with huge cash infusions just to stay afloat.
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Can you tell me why the Petroleum industry gets ANY SUBSIDIES?

Do you think you don't pay enough at the pump for gas? Because that's apparently what it means.
 
Nordberg said:
What is there about rightys who cannot understand simple logic?
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You discard logic. Don't hide behind what you discard.
Nordberg said:
An incident, however apocryphal, does not prove the case. That garbage truck proves that truck broke down, assuming it is real. It says nothing about electric trucks in general.
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Not just one garbage truck. Fallacy fallacy. Attempted proof by special pleading.
Nordberg said:
Rightys have the insane idea that manufacturers of EVs have done no work.
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Hallucination.
Nordberg said:
GM just started building them, doing no studies and no testing.
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Pretty much.
 
Perry Phimosis said:
Just like petroleum, eh? Petroleum gets MASSIVE subsidies from the US Government and they are supposedly "profitable".

Let's do a clean sweep: let's eliminate ALL SUBSIDIES (direct and indirect) from petroleum companies and see how it all works out.
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The petroleum industry does not get subsidies from the federal government to drill or refine oil.
 
Perry Phimosis said:
Can you tell me why the Petroleum industry gets ANY SUBSIDIES?

Do you think you don't pay enough at the pump for gas? Because that's apparently what it means.
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Because they do research on things the government wants that otherwise wouldn't get researched. For example, various Presidents--mostly Democrat--have wanted the military to use biofuels. These are expensive so the government pays the petroleum industry to do the research that otherwise would go undone.
Then there's things like old oil and gas fields that private industry isn't required to clean up because their abandonment pre-dates environmental laws. The government hands industry subsidies to do the work because they have the expertise to do it.

There isn't much if any subsidy going into new production, new wells, new exploration, etc.

The price at the pump really isn't affected by any of that either.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
The number one, irrefutable, argument against EV's is that they cannot, and never have been, competitive in an open marketplace. That is, without government interference in the market by offering bribes (aka subsidies) to buy one, and putting out totalitarian edicts that ban all alternatives, EV's don't do well in sales. People just don't want them.
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That is absolute bullshit. They are new only been out since 2013 as the Volt and were introduced incrementally. There were very few available. Then they went full EV and sales are high. Manufacturers all over the world are diving into them. They went from 2.7 percent of the market in 2021 to 5.6 in 2022. They sold 4.3 million in the first half of 2022. They are selling quite well.
 
Nordberg said:
That is absolute bullshit. They are new only been out since 2013 as the Volt and were introduced incrementally. There were very few available. Then they went full EV and sales are high. Manufacturers all over the world are diving into them. They went from 2.7 percent of the market in 2021 to 5.6 in 2022. They sold 4.3 million in the first half of 2022. They are selling quite well.
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Bullshit.

Edison-Electric-Car.jpg


They didn't sell then, they don't sell now. Only government putting their thumb on the scale is making the difference. Socialism at work...
 
Nordberg said:
That is absolute bullshit. They are new only been out since 2013 as the Volt and were introduced incrementally. There were very few available. Then they went full EV and sales are high. Manufacturers all over the world are diving into them. They went from 2.7 percent of the market in 2021 to 5.6 in 2022. They sold 4.3 million in the first half of 2022. They are selling quite well.
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Sales are not high. Less than 1% of the cars on the road are EVs. Toyota has announced they are abandoning the EV market. There's just no profit in it.
 
Into the Night said:
RQAA. Pay attention next time. You already asked this question and I already answered it.
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Nope, I never asked that before of you. Why do you lie about it?

If you aren't lying you can show where I asked you to define that fallacy and do so with formal logic notation as well.

Why are you such a liar?
 
Into the Night said:
Sales are not high. Less than 1% of the cars on the road are EVs. Toyota has announced they are abandoning the EV market. There's just no profit in it.
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In fact, they have far few moving parts and no transmissions. They are simpler and will more profitable, and as batteries get better and cheaper, they are getting more profitable from that too. However when you are bringing in new vehicles. you have to build the infrastructure. New assembly lines, and new suppliers have to be established. The first EV cost billions. They get cheaper every time another is built.
 
Nordberg said:
In fact, they have far few moving parts and no transmissions.
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EV's have transmissions.
Nordberg said:
They are simpler and will more profitable,
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Nope. The cost of lithium is rising, and so is the cost of cobalt. They are both non-renewable resources.
Nordberg said:
and as batteries get better and cheaper,
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They are getting more expensive. Not cheaper. A Li-ion battery is the same as any other Li-ion battery. Each cell produces 3.7 volts. Larger cells have a large mAh rating, but they ARE larger cells (using more lithium and cobalt).
Nordberg said:
they are getting more profitable from that too.
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No. They are getting more expensive to manufacture, which will raise the price of the vehicle.
Nordberg said:
However when you are bringing in new vehicles. you have to build the infrastructure.
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Illiteracy. Separate phrases using a comma, not a period.
YOU said the infrastructure is already built. NOW you say the infrastructure is NOT built. Which is it, dude??????!? You just locked yourself into another paradox.
Nordberg said:
New assembly lines, and new suppliers have to be established.
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YOU said that 'everyone is making EVs'. NOW you say that NOT everyone is making EVs'. Which is it, dude?????!? You just locked yourself into this paradox as well.
Nordberg said:
The first EV cost billions.
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The first EV cost about $2000. Two thousand is less than two billion.
Nordberg said:
They get cheaper every time another is built.
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Lithium is not getting cheaper. It is getting more expensive as this non-renewable resource becomes more scarce. The price of Li-ion batteries is rising.

You are denying history and have locked yourself in multiple paradoxes. You are being irrational.
 
Into the Night said:
EV's have transmissions.

Nope. The cost of lithium is rising, and so is the cost of cobalt. They are both non-renewable resources.

They are getting more expensive. Not cheaper. A Li-ion battery is the same as any other Li-ion battery. Each cell produces 3.7 volts. Larger cells have a large mAh rating, but they ARE larger cells (using more lithium and cobalt).

No. They are getting more expensive to manufacture, which will raise the price of the vehicle.

Illiteracy. Separate phrases using a comma, not a period.
YOU said the infrastructure is already built. NOW you say the infrastructure is NOT built. Which is it, dude??????!? You just locked yourself into another paradox.

YOU said that 'everyone is making EVs'. NOW you say that NOT everyone is making EVs'. Which is it, dude?????!? You just locked yourself into this paradox as well.

The first EV cost about $2000. Two thousand is less than two billion.

Lithium is not getting cheaper. It is getting more expensive as this non-renewable resource becomes more scarce. The price of Li-ion batteries is rising.

You are denying history and have locked yourself in multiple paradoxes. You are being irrational.
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I do not know what I bother with you. You have no interest in the truth.https://insideevs.com/news/552010/electric-car-battery-prices-dropping/ There are 2 battery plants being built in Michigan that are making better nd newer ones with even longer ranges. You are so proudly and stubbornly stupid. https://www.bridgemi.com/business-w...VonyRHZHDyZSwSyXjcKm2HP-SOtWSp4hoCAS8QAvD_BwE I keep giving you facts and you do another drive by post with fake fallacies and incorrect statements.
 
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