Reality check on electric cars

Nordberg said:
I do not know what I bother with you.
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Because you are an ignorant fundamentalist.
Nordberg said:
You have no interest in the truth.
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Inversion fallacy.
Nordberg said:
https://insideevs.com/news/552010/electric-car-battery-prices-dropping/
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Your propaganda is out of date.
Nordberg said:
There are 2 battery plants being built in Michigan that are making better nd newer ones with even longer ranges.
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Li-ion is Li-ion. The electrochemistry doesn't change.
Nordberg said:
You are so proudly and stubbornly stupid.
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No, that would be YOU. Inversion fallacy.
Nordberg said:
I keep giving you facts
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Buzzword fallacy. Learn what 'fact' means. It does not mean 'proof' nor 'Universal Truth'.
Nordberg said:
and you do another drive by post with fake fallacies and incorrect statements.
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The fallacies are YOURS, dude. Only YOU can do something about it.
It is YOU making incorrect statements. You YOU can do something about it. Inversion fallacies.

YOU have locked yourself in your own paradoxes. Only YOU can do something about it. You MUST clear your paradoxes. You cannot argue both sides of a paradox. It is irrational.
 
Nordberg said:
In fact, they have far few moving parts and no transmissions. They are simpler and will more profitable, and as batteries get better and cheaper, they are getting more profitable from that too. However when you are bringing in new vehicles. you have to build the infrastructure. New assembly lines, and new suppliers have to be established. The first EV cost billions. They get cheaper every time another is built.
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They cost more and are more complex. So, the drive train is simpler? So what? The electronics and control systems on EV's are far more complex. The batteries are going to always be expensive as they are a complex thing to manufacture and assemble. The materials going into them are going to become more scarce, not more common. The infrastructure to support them is far more costly.

EV's across the board are more expensive to purchase than comparable ICE vehicles. That isn't going to change any time soon. The EV only companies like Tesla and Rivian are taking huge hits financially right now.

Tesla stock tanks on delivery whiff, JPMorgan note
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-stock-tanks-on-delivery-whiff-jp-morgan-note-160657347.html

Elon Musk tries to explain why Tesla shares are tanking
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/20/elon-musk-tries-to-explain-why-tesla-shares-are-tanking.html

Rivian Stock Is Down 80% From Its High, but It's No Bargain
https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/12/26/rivian-down-80-from-its-high-but-its-no-bargain/

The big manufacturers that have an ICE vehicle line can afford to take some losses in their EV divisions and make it up off ICE sales. Companies that don't have that flexibility are taking it in the ass raw as the market isn't panning out in their favor even with heavy government support.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
They cost more and are more complex. So, the drive train is simpler? So what? The electronics and control systems on EV's are far more complex. The batteries are going to always be expensive as they are a complex thing to manufacture and assemble. The materials going into them are going to become more scarce, not more common. The infrastructure to support them is far more costly.

EV's across the board are more expensive to purchase than comparable ICE vehicles. That isn't going to change any time soon. The EV only companies like Tesla and Rivian are taking huge hits financially right now.

Tesla stock tanks on delivery whiff, JPMorgan note
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-stock-tanks-on-delivery-whiff-jp-morgan-note-160657347.html

Elon Musk tries to explain why Tesla shares are tanking
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/20/elon-musk-tries-to-explain-why-tesla-shares-are-tanking.html

Rivian Stock Is Down 80% From Its High, but It's No Bargain
https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/12/26/rivian-down-80-from-its-high-but-its-no-bargain/

The big manufacturers that have an ICE vehicle line can afford to take some losses in their EV divisions and make it up off ICE sales. Companies that don't have that flexibility are taking it in the ass raw as the market isn't panning out in their favor even with heavy government support.
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They are far easier to work on. They are mucho simpler. https://www.reviewgeek.com/119554/do-evs-really-require-less-maintenance/
 
Nordberg said:
They are far easier to work on. They are mucho simpler. https://www.reviewgeek.com/119554/do-evs-really-require-less-maintenance/
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No, they're not. They may not need as much routine maintenance, but when they do need it, they are much harder to work on due mainly to the complexity of the electronics.

High-Tech Cars are Making Maintenance & Repairs Harder
https://automotivize.com/2022/10/31...ot-easier-to-perform-maintenance-and-repairs/

If something goes wrong with the vehicle's electronic hardware or software it gets horribly expensive.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
No, they're not. They may not need as much routine maintenance, but when they do need it, they are much harder to work on due mainly to the complexity of the electronics.

High-Tech Cars are Making Maintenance & Repairs Harder
https://automotivize.com/2022/10/31...ot-easier-to-perform-maintenance-and-repairs/

If something goes wrong with the vehicle's electronic hardware or software it gets horribly expensive.
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Electrical or computer problems plague ICEs too. There is no difference in that part of cars. EVs are under warranty.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
They cost more and are more complex. So, the drive train is simpler? So what? The electronics and control systems on EV's are far more complex. The batteries are going to always be expensive as they are a complex thing to manufacture and assemble. The materials going into them are going to become more scarce, not more common. The infrastructure to support them is far more costly.

EV's across the board are more expensive to purchase than comparable ICE vehicles. That isn't going to change any time soon. The EV only companies like Tesla and Rivian are taking huge hits financially right now.

Tesla stock tanks on delivery whiff, JPMorgan note
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-stock-tanks-on-delivery-whiff-jp-morgan-note-160657347.html

Elon Musk tries to explain why Tesla shares are tanking
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/20/elon-musk-tries-to-explain-why-tesla-shares-are-tanking.html

Rivian Stock Is Down 80% From Its High, but It's No Bargain
https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/12/26/rivian-down-80-from-its-high-but-its-no-bargain/

The big manufacturers that have an ICE vehicle line can afford to take some losses in their EV divisions and make it up off ICE sales. Companies that don't have that flexibility are taking it in the ass raw as the market isn't panning out in their favor even with heavy government support.
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They are also a waste of energy. Internal combustion engines are far more energy efficient.

Burning some kind fuel to create steam to turn a turbine, then stepping it up and down with transformers and the long transmission and distribution lines ALL generate waste heat. The charging also creates waste heat. So does the discharge cycle when you drive the car (this is why EV batteries are typically liquid cooled and motors are oil cooled). So many energy conversions, each one introducing energy loss.

Internal combustion engines only convert chemical energy to thermal energy and mechanical energy. They are far more efficient. AND the waste heat can be used to keep the cabin nice and comfortable in the winter!
 
T. A. Gardner said:
No, they're not. They may not need as much routine maintenance, but when they do need it, they are much harder to work on due mainly to the complexity of the electronics.

High-Tech Cars are Making Maintenance & Repairs Harder
https://automotivize.com/2022/10/31...ot-easier-to-perform-maintenance-and-repairs/

If something goes wrong with the vehicle's electronic hardware or software it gets horribly expensive.
Click to expand...

Routine maintenance is the same for both cars when new.

Clean it, take care of the body and glass, replace the tires and brakes when worn. Done.
About the only thing different for an ICE is an oil change every few thousand miles. Apparently that simple procedure scares the crap out of Nordberg.
 
Nordberg said:
Electrical or computer problems plague ICEs too.
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Not really. I have a 2007 Ford truck and the computer on it works perfectly. I've never had to replace it.

GM is known to have problems with electrical and with corrosion, even when new.
They just can't seem to get their head wrapped around the concept of current requirements of wiring and components. They can't seem to get their head wrapped around galvanic corrosion either.

Nordberg said:
There is no difference in that part of cars. EVs are under warranty.
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So are ICE cars.
 
Into the Night said:
Routine maintenance is the same for both cars when new.

Clean it, take care of the body and glass, replace the tires and brakes when worn. Done.
About the only thing different for an ICE is an oil change every few thousand miles. Apparently that simple procedure scares the crap out of Nordberg.
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On tires, EV's often have far more expensive tires when they need changing. This is due to the much higher gross weight of EV's (thanks to that battery and lots of heavier metals like copper in them) that require stiffer sidewalls to handle that weight particularly when cornering, and that sort of thing.
 
Into the Night said:
Not really. I have a 2007 Ford truck and the computer on it works perfectly. I've never had to replace it.

GM is known to have problems with electrical and with corrosion, even when new.
They just can't seem to get their head wrapped around the concept of current requirements of wiring and components. They can't seem to get their head wrapped around galvanic corrosion either.


So are ICE cars.
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Do you really not understand that an incident does not prove the case? Your unproven, merely stated by a super slanted atavistic liar, claim is entirely wasted. A truck proves all Ford computers have not had to be replaced? That was a very bad response. Fallacy "proof by example'. You should know better.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
On tires, EV's often have far more expensive tires when they need changing. This is due to the much higher gross weight of EV's (thanks to that battery and lots of heavier metals like copper in them) that require stiffer sidewalls to handle that weight particularly when cornering, and that sort of thing.
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Quite true. It IS a heavy car.
 
Nordberg said:
Do you really not understand that an incident does not prove the case? Your unproven, merely stated by a super slanted atavistic liar, claim is entirely wasted. A truck proves all Ford computers have not had to be replaced? That was a very bad response. Fallacy "proof by example'. You should know better.
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Fallacy fallacy. Contextomy fallacy. Compositional error fallacy.

YOU claimed all ICE cars have bad computers in them.
I have a Ford 2007 that shows you are full of BS.

It's pretty rare to have to replace a Ford computer. They really only go out when they suffer flooding corrosion or overvoltage conditions. The same thing can happen to any EV.

I don't have to get my software updated by the dealer like an EV.
 
Into the Night said:
You can't work on an EV. You have to take to the dealer for pretty much everything!

It's simple to work on an ICE car, though. A lot of people do it with some pretty simple tools.
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In fact, ICEs have become far more complicated with many of the computer and electrical problems you pretend are unique to EVs.
Brakes are almost lifetime due to regenerative braking
no exhaust systems to replace
no emissions testing
no sensors to go bad
no spark plugs and wires
no serpentine belts
no power steering belts
no pully operated A/C compressor
There are about 1200 moving, spinning or sensing parts in an ICE
12 in an EV
You are as usual wrong.
 
I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee and a Corvette, and I suppose that I could find the oil cap on the Corvette.
It used to be a filler tube through the intake manifold, but now it's on a valve cover. The guy at the garage can figure that out on his own, however.

I can definitely fill the windshield washer fluid reservoir.

I don't know how to pop the hood on the Jeep, so I ask my son to take care of the washer fluid when he's around.

What kind of psychotic works on his/her own car?

I would think that even a car mechanic wouldn't want to work on his/her own car during his/her own downtime.

I'm a retired accountant, and I can't be bothered to prepare my own taxes.
There are specialists for that.

How about taking your car to a qualified expert and having your wife follow you and drive you home?
Mother of Christ Almighty! I have to tell these people everything!
 
Nordberg said:
In fact, ICEs have become far more complicated with many of the computer and electrical problems you pretend are unique to EVs.
Brakes are almost lifetime due to regenerative braking
no exhaust systems to replace
no emissions testing
no sensors to go bad
no spark plugs and wires
no serpentine belts
no power steering belts
no pully operated A/C compressor
There are about 1200 moving, spinning or sensing parts in an ICE
12 in an EV
You are as usual wrong.
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It is great how little maintenance is required on the EV. I love my Chevy Bolt. Loved my electric Smart before that too.

And the ability to fuel it up at home using my solar PV system means I drive for FREE! It's sweet.

It's not a perfect vehicle. But it sure does do a great job being a good car. I can drive up to 300 miles on a full charge, so my range anxiety is limited. Almost no maintenance and free fuel. Who could complain about this?
 
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