Reality check on electric cars

[Lionfish]

EVs pollute a lot less both in construction and use. They do not have a poisonous exhaust blowing carbon waste into the air for all of us to enjoy.

Nordy, think a bit, an EV is just a vehicle that has it's exhaust pine in a different location.

 

[Nordberg]

Nordy, think a bit, an EV is just a vehicle that has it's exhaust pine in a different location.

You try thinking. The fact is they create far less pollution than ICEs. That is a fact. Auto exhaust is a terrible pollutant and very bad for people's health. https://theicct.org/new-study-quantifies-the-global-health-impacts-of-vehicle-exhaust/ You are as usual, wrong. If we added the health costs to ICEs their prices would be more honest. They are a terrible problem to the planet and animals' health.

 

[Lionfish]

You try thinking. The fact is they create far less pollution than ICEs. That is a fact. Auto exhaust is a terrible pollutant and very bad for people's health. https://theicct.org/new-study-quantifies-the-global-health-impacts-of-vehicle-exhaust/ You are as usual, wrong. If we added the health costs to ICEs their prices would be more honest. They are a terrible problem to the planet and animals' health.

Ever analyze what is in one volcano eruption? Ever look at the chemicals needed to mine the metals needed for lithium battery production? Ever check up on the polution caused by wildfires?

 

[Into the Night]

The fact that electric cars were tried out in the late 19th century is totally and completely and utterly irrelevant. You are playing again. The EVs that we are building now, are divorced from those ancient vehicles. In an honest moment, I hope you have such things, you would admit there is nothing in those ancient vehicles that matters at all to today's EVs.

The EV was an electric vehicle powered from batteries. The EV today is an electric vehicle powered from batteries. They both required frequent charging. They both take a long time to charge. They both suck when it comes to useful payload. The only thing that has changed is the type of battery. The Li-ion battery used in today's EVs was invented in the mid 1980's.

Less than 1% of the cars on the road are EVs.

 

[Into the Night]

a
Nope. the hardest thing to do is stop an idea whose time has come.

The EV was invented in the late 1800's. That time has past.

a
Fossil fuels

Fossils aren't as fuel. Fossils don't burn.

a
and all forms of energy have had trillions of tax dollars thrown their way

Fiction.

a
and the powerful lobbying and donations have given them endless subsidies and erosion of regulations.

Fiction.

a
Electric auto subsidies can never approach what energy companies have received.

They far exceed it.

a
We give leases to oil companies that give them huge amounts of government land very cheaply.

Fiction. Oil companies have to BUY their rights to drill on any land.

a
They are still getting our tax money and land.

They are not.

a
For that, they pollute the land, air, and water.

Define this 'pollution'. Buzzword fallacy.

The EV must be charged. That STILL requires the use of coal, oil, and natural gas to run power plants. Indeed, the charge/discharge efficiency is so bad due to line and equipment losses (and due to the waste heat the EV itself produces when running), means the EV uses almost twice the energy of a similar size and weight gasoline car. Further, mandated areas of EV use means there simply isn't enough power available to charge them. MORE plants using coal, oil, and natural gas will need be built, and MORE high tension power lines will have to be constructed to distribute the power. That's more substations too. Apparently you don't mind this blight.

 

[Hawkeye10]

The EV was invented in the late 1800's. That time has past.

Fossils aren't as fuel. Fossils don't burn.

Fiction.

Fiction.

They far exceed it.

Fiction. Oil companies have to BUY their rights to drill on any land.

They are not.

Define this 'pollution'. Buzzword fallacy.

The EV must be charged. That STILL requires the use of coal, oil, and natural gas to run power plants. Indeed, the charge/discharge efficiency is so bad due to line and equipment losses (and due to the waste heat the EV itself produces when running), means the EV uses almost twice the energy of a similar size and weight gasoline car.

O.

M.

G.

 

[Into the Night]

So ending EVs will lower gas prices? What does an increase in demand with a fixed supply do to prices?

Electricity prices, dumbass. He's talking about electricity prices.

 

[Into the Night]

How much have we spent building roads and support for autos?

You mean the SAME ROADS your precious EVs drive on??

We neglected public transportation and put Americans in cars.

No. Passenger trains don't work in the States. There is too much open area between cities, and no one is going to build public transportation to every farm and ranch.
Trucks do not use public transportation. They can't.
Public transportation can never cover everything, not even in Japan, which has the most extensive public transportation system in the world.

We have subsidized gasoline and oil companies with trillions.

Fiction. Gasoline is a derivative of oil. Oil companies do not receive government subsidies to drill or refine oil.

We have passed the health costs that their products cause to the people.

Guess what? The population has been INCREASING in the States. People are healthy too. Notable exceptions are those strung out on drugs.

Oil still rakes it in from the people.

Okay. Let's look at what costs go into making a gallon of gasoline:

12% is taxes, right off the top. You know...that 'subsidy' they receive. This is the federal tax you pay at the gas station.
18% is the cost of refining it. That includes storing the crude oil, refining it and again for storing the finished product.
59% is that the oil refineries have to pay to obtain the oil. That includes taxes to obtain the lease, taxes for the environmental reviews, taxes for moving the drilling rig into place, taxes for the drilling operation itself, taxes for the removal of the drilling rig, and taxes to install the wellhead and pump, and taxes. to run the pump, and taxes to store the result, and taxes to ship crude oil to the refineries.
11% for distribution and marketing. That includes the taxes to move the product to distribution centers, inserting the additives for a particular region (there are now some 72 different mixes required over 48 States, the SDTC, and the SOTNY during the summer!), and shipping the final product to the service stations so you can pay that 12% tax when you buy it, and a tiny profit for the oil company.

Source: US Energy Administration office

 

[Hawkeye10]

ITN liked me once.

Before he discovered that I am a dissident, an actual Progressive. .

 

[Hawkeye10]

Those who think for ourselves get to join no tribes in dark ages such as this one.

FUCK.

 

[Into the Night]

Trains are an option which have let die. Other industrial nations have super fast trains that offer a serious and real option.
You can drive your pollutionmobile as long as you want.
Weird claim. Going electric will ban plastics, paints and tires? I did not know that. Did you think you were making sense?

Trains are extremely inefficient over remote areas such as most of the States.
Forcing trucks to EVs will destroy any shipping into, out of, or through the affected area. That means no plastics, no paints, no tires, no computer parts, no food or little food (no fertilizers), no way for farm or ranch to get their product to markets, no parts for your EVs or their infrastructure, no more windmills or parts for them, no more water or power since those systems also require parts and shipping services, no telecommunication system which includes internet, since those systems also require shipping services.

And the Dictator of the SDTC is stupid enough to do this.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Trains are extremely inefficient over remote areas such as most of the States.

#NONSENSE

 

[Hawkeye10]

Trains are extremely inefficient over remote areas such as most of the States.
Forcing trucks to EVs will destroy any shipping into, out of, or through the affected area. That means no plastics, no paints, no tires, no computer parts, no food or little food (no fertilizers), no way for farm or ranch to get their product to markets, no parts for your EVs or their infrastructure, no more windmills or parts for them, no more water or power since those systems also require parts and shipping services, no telecommunication system which includes internet, since those systems also require shipping services.

And the Dictator of the SDTC is stupid enough to do this.

Notice how you felt the need to bloviate further on your nonsense trying to slide it past.

 

[Into the Night]

Trains only work with relatively short distances compared to aircraft. That's why passenger train service died out competing with commercial aircraft. You can fly coast-to-coast in the US in 4 to 6 hours. It takes 4 to 6 days at a minimum using even a relatively high speed rail service.

Even with aircraft, you still need cars to get to the airports that accept commercial aircraft. Sixty miles is a long walk when you're carrying suitcases!

EV's pollute, potentially more than ICE vehicles, only in different ways.

I ran this calculation. Charging an EV depends on the electrical grid. That includes the power stations (probably burning coal, oil, or natural gas) and the generator that puts out waste heat as it generates electrical power, the step up transformers (oil cooled, since they put out a lot of waste heat), the high tension lines (putting out waste heat all the way as well as corona losses), the substations (using oil cooled transformers because of the waste heat they put out), the ballasting capacitors (which are also oil cooled because of the waste heat they put out), plus the dispatch offices, subsidiary offices, all using energy just to keep the system running, the feeder lines (putting out waste heat all the way), the pole transformer (also oil cooled due to the waste heat it puts out), and finally the charging module in the garage (which uses heat sinks to get rid of the waste heat during the charging cycle), the internal resistance of the vehicle battery (like a resistor, it puts out waste heat during charging as well!), and finally the waste heat AGAIN as the car is driven, both in the batteries (which are water cooled in a Tesla), and the motors (oil cooled). EVs are heavy too, meaning it takes more energy to move that extra weight around.

All in all, an EV requires about twice the energy to travel the same distance as a similar sized gasoline car.

Since an EV has poor payload capacity, it also must make more trips than the gasoline car to carry a full payload the gasoline car is capable of.

The fractional distillation of petroleum gives us the chemicals that allow those things to be manufactured. If we produce far less oil due to no need for it as an energy source, we produce far less of the other chemicals and solvents that come out of oil. Thus, the price of everything made with some oil derived product will rise dramatically.
Right now, those things are a side product of distillation and are essentially "freebies." If they become the only reason to distill oil, then they become VERY expensive.

This is quite right. It would no longer be economically feasible to create the paints and plastics if oil drilling and refining was restricted to these uses. I think you and I both know they would try to outlaw that too, since they still require oil drilling and refining.

 

[Into the Night]

Gas just went from $3.42 at the beginning of the week to $3.75 today.

Oops! Wrong meme. but he did do that too.


FJB

Summer mix. Welcome to warmer weather. There are currently some 72 different mixes now required over 48 States, the SDTC, and the SOTNY.
That's reduced to seven in the winter.

Biden didn't create these wacky rules, but Democrats did.

 

[Into the Night]

Granholm supports requiring U.S. military to adopt all-electric vehicle fleet by 2030


Energy Sec. Jennifer Granholm says she supports efforts to require the U.S. military to implement an all-electric vehicle fleet by the year 2030, telling lawmakers that she believes “we can get there.”

Can't engage the enemy, sir. We are still waiting for our tanks to charge.

 

[Into the Night]

EVs pollute a lot less both in construction and use. They do not have a poisonous exhaust blowing carbon waste into the air for all of us to enjoy.

EVs produce more carbon dioxide than gasoline cars to travel the same distance. Almost twice the energy is used to drive an EV the same distance.

Carbon is not a pollutant. Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant either. CO2 is a necessary naturally occurring gas that is absolutely essential for life to exist on Earth.
No gas or vapor is capable of warming the Earth.

 

[Into the Night]

I saw a Tesla service vehicle the other day. It ran on diesel.

 

[Into the Night]

Is that what you think? WOW. https://www.epa.gov/transportation-... carbon dioxide,already starting to see today.

Carbon isn't pollution. It's a fuel. Holy Links don't change that.

 

[Into the Night]

After nearly half-a-century of bad modelling, wrong predictions, outright lies, and other mistakes by the Gorebal Warming so-called experts, I'm not buying what the EPA says on this. The EPA has repeatedly refused even congress to show how they've made predictions and cost estimates on this and many other subjects.

EPA refuses to give Congress documents on its rejection of NASA flight after Hurricane Harvey
https://www.reddit.com/r/houston/comments/c5zt6d/epa_refuses_to_give_congress_documents_on_its/

Members Of Congress Push Back On EPA’s Threat To The Permian Basin
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidb...-threat-to-the-permian-basin/?sh=7727baa45845

An Out-Of-Control EPA Loses Yet Another Court Case
https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/an-out-of-control-epa-loses-yet-another-court-case/

Supreme Court restricts the EPA's authority to mandate carbon emissions reductions
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/30/1103595898/supreme-court-epa-climate-change

For all intents, the EPA is a rogue agency that makes up its so-called "science" and then won't let anyone peer review it.

The EPA itself is unconstitutional. Congress never had any authority to create such an agency.