Into the Night
Verified User
Quite right. EVs behave very poorly in colder environments. The reason is a simple one. Batteries rely on electrochemistry. Like any chemistry, higher temperatures mean better reactions.
Reality check on electric cars
- Thread starter Stringfellow Hawk
- Start date
Quite right. EVs behave very poorly in colder environments. The reason is a simple one. Batteries rely on electrochemistry. Like any chemistry, higher temperatures mean better reactions.
Into the Night
Verified User
What's hilarious is that people also put ozone generators in their homes and businesses to freshen the air. That 'fresh rain' smell you get before the onset of a storm is ozone.
Ozone is also created by any electric motor (including those in EVs!). It also forms around high tension lines along their whole length (part of the corona losses on these lines). It also forms in the atmosphere due to the action of sunlight on oxygen in the atmosphere. People also have 'ozonators' installed in pools and hot tubs to reduce the amount of chlorine or bromine salts that must be added to disinfect the water. It's even used in water treatment plants.
So much for ozone.
Into the Night
Verified User
It is completely meaningless. Not because he says so or because I say so. Ozone is created from many sources, including sunlight and electric motors (such as in an EV!).
Into the Night
Verified User
I know of several people that bought into the EV fad, then got out of it. They found it expensive, inconvenient, and in some spectacular cases, a fire hazard.
EVs' burn much more vigorously than a gasoline fire.
A degrade in the quality of life but here is the thing that you might actually know....The WOKE are Anti-Human....this is a suicide cult....they dont mind in the least.
According to them there are far too many humans on this planet, a whole lot can and should go away according to these Evil fucks.
Into the Night
Verified User
Not a fact. A fallacy. You haven't defined this 'pollution'.
Define this 'pollution'.
Exhaust from gasoline cars is mostly water vapor and carbon dioxide. If the engine is poorly maintained (or if the person chooses to modify his car this way), it also contains a particulates (the 'smoke') that easily washes out of the air with any rainfall. They also produce a bit of ozone, but so does an electric car (or train).
Modern FADEC engines are quite efficient. They are self adjusting, self checking, and self correcting on the burn, producing at or near a stoichoistic burn. They use about half the energy of a similar sized EV. For an EV, you must include the losses of generating and distributing the power plus the inefficiencies of the battery. All of it goes up in waste heat...useless.
Carbon dioxide is GOOD for people's health. It is an absolutely necessary gas for life to exist on Earth at all. Water vapor is GOOD for people's health.
Another undefined term. Define these 'health costs'.
Sorry, dude. You have to define your terms.
Define this 'pollution' you keep going on about. Define the 'health costs' you keep going on about.
Earth doesn't have a 'health'. It's a planet.
Animals could not exist without carbon dioxide and water.
Do you know how to conduct conversation normally, cause this is annoying as fuck.
Into the Night
Verified User
He thinks a volcano actually puts out less carbon dioxide than cars! Note the Mauna Kea CO2 measuring station is located ON AN ACTIVE VOLCANO.
Lithium is mined using one of two techniques..either strip mining and treating the raw ore with massive amounts of sulfuric acid (producing a useless sulfate sludge by the ton), or scraping raw ore from lithium bearing soils at the surface and treating them for years in leaching ponds with various acids including sulfuric acid. After several years of leaching in this way, the lithium ore is ready to ship to China to be turned into batteries. The ore at the battery factory is further treated with toxic compounds to obtain the lithium metal which must be kept in a special room since lithium is extremely reactive with water or water vapor. If it catches fire at this stage (pretty easy to happen!), it's a class D fire. The only way to put it out is with lots of sand. Water just makes it burn faster.
Once formed into a finished Li-ion battery, any fire from it will be a vigorous class A fire. You can put that out with water. It burns like a vigorous firework.
When the batteries are assembled into packs for cars, a cell catching fire is now a class C fire. Water is the worst thing you can use since that will short out the remaining cells spreading the fire rapidly. Once all cells are involved, it reverts to a class A fire again. You can put it out with lots of water.
Fire departments just pour lots of water on burning EVs. Sure it makes it worse, but it will eventually put it out. The car is already a total loss. There is nothing left to save on it.
A minor collision can damage a cell. Just ONE damaged cell means the entire pack, all $25,000 of it, is garbage. It will also probably catch fire, probably soon. Corrosion from flooding damage, road damage, and damage from super rapid charging stations, all can create conditions for a fire to start.
Brush wildfires put up a lot of particulates (the smoke). These are easily washed out of the air by rain. Until then, it hangs suspended in the air so thick it obscures even the sun.
I have allowed scientists to define pollution in autos. Apparently, you did not read it or could not understand it. I actually favor that you will just say the opposite as is your wont.
Into the Night
Verified User
You aren't conducting a conversation.
Into the Night
Verified User
Void reference fallacy.
Holy Link worship. False authority fallacy. Attempted justification of meaningless buzzwords.
Bulverism fallacy.
No argument presented.
Did you just learn that? I beat you learned ICEs do not work as well in cold weather either. You are so damn dishonest.
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
Into the Night
Verified User
ICE cars work very well in cold weather. EVs don't.
Actually EVs work very well in cold weather. I live in Michigan and use mine throughout the winter. They provide heat and defrosting much more quickly too.
The Silverado ICE was recalled for a burning problem. https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/new...evy-silverado-pickup-trucks-to-fix-fire-risk/
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
Here’s the Scientific Reason Why EVs Perform Worse in Cold Weather
Drivers are also advised not to rely too heavily on their EV’s central heating system during the winter. Doing so drains the battery faster and affects the range...
According to Recurrent, most EVs lose up to 12% of their estimated ranges in temperatures of 20° Fahrenheit and below. Even that’s a generous percentage because it assumes you’re not running the car’s A/C or using other heated elements.
In reality, most EVs will experience a 40% efficiency loss in cold weather. Freezing temperatures also affect an EV’s charging times, potentially increasing them by up to 300%.
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/scientific-reason-evs-perform-worse-cold-weather/
While the science in this article applies to all EV batteries, we have to call out Teslas as a special case. While their batteries are not immune to temperature effects, Tesla controls these effects very tightly and often does not make them obvious to the driver, i.e. the dashboard range often does not reflect temperature effects. Tesla does this in two ways. First, they use a robust thermal management system to keep the battery within a healthy operational temperature range, warming it in the winter and cooling it in the summer. The second thing that Tesla does is calculate its on-board range by using a fixed efficiency value, rather than using a dynamic value based on external factors. That means that Tesla range estimates often look the same in any temperature, even though Tesla drivers know they can change quite a bit.
https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/how-temperature-affects-ev-range
How different electric vehicles perform in cold weather, according to one analysis
https://www.ctvnews.ca/autos/how-di...d-weather-according-to-one-analysis-1.6205880
Into the Night
Verified User
Blatant lie.
You have claimed to live in California. You cannot be in two places at once.
Batteries work by electrochemistry. That chemistry slows down in cold weather. A lot.
Heat and fans are further drains on your battery, further reducing your already limited range. Batteries don't work well in cold weather.
Heat in ICE cars is provided by waste heat from the engine, and the fans are driven by the alternator, not the battery.
In other words, by simply redirecting waste heat into the cabin instead of being dumped overboard, you essentially get free heat.
Many cars (mine included) also have 'winterizing' packages, providing electric heat in the seats, windows, and even the steering wheel until the engine warms up (which only takes a few minutes).
Sure, you can drive them, but they have reduced range (still further reduced by the use of that same battery providing heat and air), and take longer to charge.
Further, salt on roads used in several northern States is real murder on cars of all types. EVs are hit especially bad with it since those batteries are heavy, and put much more mechanical strain on the frame, and the corrosion can start a battery fire.
Into the Night
Verified User
Teslas normally do not heat it's batteries. All it does is shut down the cooling system for it's batteries by closing a valve (Tesla batteries are liquid cooled). Despite this, Tesla batteries will run colder than optimum in colder weather, and will also have reduced range and charge capacity. As you mentioned, nothing on the range indicator on the dash reflects any of this.
The latest version of the Model Y uses the air conditioning compressor to heat it's batteries. This of course reduces range anyway due to the use of the air conditioning compressor (powered by the batteries).
Running the defroster also makes use of the air conditioner compressor.
Do not confuse science with engineering. They are two separate things. What you are describing is engineering, not science.
The only science here is rate of reaction in chemistry and the 1st law of thermodynamics (both of which are ignored by Nordberg).
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