Reality check on electric cars

[Nordberg]

I understand that you are very old and cannot accept the future tech.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

I understand that you are very old and cannot accept the future tech.

Not going to happen on a mass scale anytime soon, like NEVER!

That quarter-mile of road, 1320 feet, cost $1.9 million to install. That's a cost of about $1500 a foot. It would cost about $3.5 trillion to just do interstates alone. Toss in secondary roads and urban streets and you are looking at something like $15 trillion dollars to do this not including annual maintenance costs.

Then there is the cost of the electricity being used...

Talk about a losing proposition!

 

[Nordberg]

Not going to happen on a mass scale anytime soon, like NEVER!

That quarter-mile of road, 1320 feet, cost $1.9 million to install. That's a cost of about $1500 a foot. It would cost about $3.5 trillion to just do interstates alone. Toss in secondary roads and urban streets and you are looking at something like $15 trillion dollars to do this not including annual maintenance costs.

Then there is the cost of the electricity being used...

Talk about a losing proposition!

God you are ignorant. How much did the first Camaro cost.? They set up factories, trained workers and dropped billions.They lost bigly in the beginning, but the cost was eventually spread across millions of vehicles. Everything got better and making them became cheaper. Are you saying you do not understand that economic principle, or are you saying ridiculous things to pretend you have an argument?
The first mile of paved roads was very expensive. If it were up to you, it would have stopped.
You are babbling again.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

God you are ignorant. How much did the first Camaro cost.? They set up factories, trained workers and dropped billions.They lost bigly in the beginning, but the cost was eventually spread across millions of vehicles. Everything got better and making them became cheaper. Are you saying you do not understand that economic principle, or are you saying ridiculous things to pretend you have an argument?
The first mile of paved roads was very expensive. If it were up to you, it would have stopped.
You are babbling again.

I understand the engineering involved in trying to 'electrify' roads. Isn't happening. Paved roads existed in Roman times, so the technology for that is nothing new. Trying to charge cars inductively as they drive if fraught with issues.

 

[Into the Night]

I understand that you are very old and cannot accept the future tech.

Not new technology.

 

[Into the Night]

God you are ignorant. How much did the first Camaro cost.? They set up factories, trained workers and dropped billions.They lost bigly in the beginning, but the cost was eventually spread across millions of vehicles. Everything got better and making them became cheaper. Are you saying you do not understand that economic principle, or are you saying ridiculous things to pretend you have an argument?
The first mile of paved roads was very expensive. If it were up to you, it would have stopped.
You are babbling again.

Paved roads have been around since the Romans.

 

[gfm7175]

Not going to happen on a mass scale anytime soon, like NEVER!

That quarter-mile of road, 1320 feet, cost $1.9 million to install. That's a cost of about $1500 a foot. It would cost about $3.5 trillion to just do interstates alone. Toss in secondary roads and urban streets and you are looking at something like $15 trillion dollars to do this not including annual maintenance costs.

Then there is the cost of the electricity being used...

Talk about a losing proposition!

What do you mean "losing proposition"? Just print more money... DUH! That's the leftist way....

 

[Nordberg]

I understand the engineering involved in trying to 'electrify' roads. Isn't happening. Paved roads existed in Roman times, so the technology for that is nothing new. Trying to charge cars inductively as they drive if fraught with issues.

As I showed, it is happening. I bet the inventors and builders would have done so much better if they talked to you first. Invest in buggy whips. They are coming back.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

The issues with this technology are enormous. First, they are using DC power for the induction coils. That means either separate generation on a mass scale with the attendant building of a second power grid, or massive use of inverters adding cost.

Rebuilding roads to include these grids is going to be costly. Interstate-style highway construction in urban areas uses reinforced concrete. How does the presence of grounded rebar in the concrete affect these grids?

Does speed effect the way these coils work? What about situations where you have multiple coupling to a coil (more than one vehicle drawing from a coil)? How does a DC system work with highly variable load (see voltage splitters for example)?

DC power is far more effected by line resistance than an AC system as step-up transformers cannot be used.

How do you deal with varying coupling by vehicles of different designs?

How does the system handle varying loads? That is, if there is heavy traffic versus light traffic?

Multi-lane systems?

https://ietresearch.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1049/iet-pel.2018.6011

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352484723014415

 

[T. A. Gardner]

As I showed, it is happening. I bet the inventors and builders would have done so much better if they talked to you first. Invest in buggy whips. They are coming back.

It's being discussed, but it is likely to never happen. The best argument against it is simply that continued use of gasoline and diesel completely negate the need for it.

 

[gfm7175]

it is happening.

 

[Into the Night]

What do you mean "losing proposition"? Just print more money... DUH! That's the leftist way....

Just like building whole cities for no one to live in!
Now it's building expensive roads that no EV can use to charge itself.

EVs don't have inductive chargers.

 

[Into the Night]

As I showed, it is happening. I bet the inventors and builders would have done so much better if they talked to you first. Invest in buggy whips. They are coming back.

No, Sybil. It's not happening. You are hallucinating again.

 

[Into the Night]

The issues with this technology are enormous. First, they are using DC power for the induction coils.

DC won't work for an induction coil. See Faraday's laws.

That means either separate generation on a mass scale with the attendant building of a second power grid, or massive use of inverters adding cost.

nah. Sybil thinks he can power the whole thing through the present grid structure and power magickally comes from nothing!

Rebuilding roads to include these grids is going to be costly. Interstate-style highway construction in urban areas uses reinforced concrete. How does the presence of grounded rebar in the concrete affect these grids?

Capacitive coupling to ground, at the least. IF the rebar is properly positioned in the concrete, it's in the way of the coils.

Does speed effect the way these coils work? What about situations where you have multiple coupling to a coil (more than one vehicle drawing from a coil)? How does a DC system work with highly variable load (see voltage splitters for example)?

Coils do not charge using direct current. See Faraday's laws.

DC power is far more effected by line resistance than an AC system as step-up transformers cannot be used.

No inductance coupling to a passing car, either.

How do you deal with varying coupling by vehicles of different designs?

No EV design has charging coils in them.

How does the system handle varying loads? That is, if there is heavy traffic versus light traffic?

Multi-lane systems?

All good questions.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

DC won't work for an induction coil. See Faraday's laws.

nah. Sybil thinks he can power the whole thing through the present grid structure and power magickally comes from nothing!

Capacitive coupling to ground, at the least. IF the rebar is properly positioned in the concrete, it's in the way of the coils.

Coils do not charge using direct current. See Faraday's laws.

No inductance coupling to a passing car, either.

No EV design has charging coils in them.

All good questions.

Yes, coils will charge using DC. They charge to a voltage and then stay there. They create a field just like an AC current will. What they won't do is induce a current in a second coil because that requires the field to be changing (ie AC). What they are doing with these in-street charging systems is using DC to build a field in the coil in the street and then substituting the motion of the vehicle for the changing field (that is, the vehicle's motion creates the changing field in the secondary coil in the vehicle).

Want proof? Wrap a nail with some insulated wire and using a D cell battery see if it turns into a magnet (it will). The field is there, but it is unchanging.

 

[Into the Night]

Yes, coils will charge using DC.

Nope. See Faraday's laws.

They charge to a voltage and then stay there.

A coil does not charge to a voltage.

They create a field just like an AC current will.

They do not create a field like AC does. To charge anything inductively, you must have a CHANGING field. A field that doesn't change doesn't charge anything. See Faraday's laws.

What they won't do is induce a current in a second coil because that requires the field to be changing (ie AC). What they are doing with these in-street charging systems is using DC to build a field in the coil in the street and then substituting the motion of the vehicle for the changing field (that is, the vehicle's motion creates the changing field in the secondary coil in the vehicle).

Unfortunately, EVs don't HAVE secondary coils in the vehicle for that purpose, and a vehicle stuck in traffic isn't going to charge even if it DID have one.

Want proof? Wrap a nail with some insulated wire and using a D cell battery see if it turns into a magnet (it will). The field is there, but it is unchanging.

Which is what I said.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Nope. See Faraday's laws.

A coil does not charge to a voltage.

They do not create a field like AC does. To charge anything inductively, you must have a CHANGING field. A field that doesn't change doesn't charge anything. See Faraday's laws.

Unfortunately, EVs don't HAVE secondary coils in the vehicle for that purpose, and a vehicle stuck in traffic isn't going to charge even if it DID have one.

Which is what I said.

You have no, NO, idea what you're talking about.

Faraday's law deals with deals with electromagnetism. When you have a coil of wire, application of a DC or AC current / voltage to it will cause the coil to form a magnetic field around it. What allows a transformer to work is that the field is changing when AC is applied. You can do the same thing with a Faraday wheel or disc using DC. This is why DC motors work and exist as well as AC motors.

If only AC worked then the simple experiment, one often used in grade school science, of wrapping an insulated wire around a nail and charging the resulting coil with a dry cell battery, wouldn't work, but it does. DC can create a magnetic field in a coil. The strength of that field is determined by the number of turns, how tightly those overlap, the size of the wire used, and the voltage--not current--applied. The other thing that helps is what the core of the coil is. The best are thin sheets of iron (steel) stacked to form a core. These prevent circulating currents forming within the core by virtue of being individual plates rather than a solid mass.

This is most easily and visually seen in the Left- and Right-hand rules for motors and generators.

Thus, a DC magnetic field can be induced into a secondary coil by the secondary coil being in motion. EV's used in testing these road induction systems do have charging coils installed and can charge from a DC source in the road.

That doesn't make it cost effective or practical by any means.

 

[Into the Night]

You have no, NO, idea what you're talking about.

But I do.

Faraday's law deals with deals with electromagnetism.

Which you apparently have little understanding of.

When you have a coil of wire, application of a DC or AC current / voltage to it will cause the coil to form a magnetic field around it. What allows a transformer to work is that the field is changing when AC is applied. You can do the same thing with a Faraday wheel or disc using DC. This is why DC motors work and exist as well as AC motors.

DC motors require a permanent magnet to function. AC motors don't.

If only AC worked then the simple experiment, one often used in grade school science, of wrapping an insulated wire around a nail and charging the resulting coil with a dry cell battery, wouldn't work, but it does. DC can create a magnetic field in a coil. The strength of that field is determined by the number of turns, how tightly those overlap, the size of the wire used, and the voltage--not current--applied. The other thing that helps is what the core of the coil is. The best are thin sheets of iron (steel) stacked to form a core. These prevent circulating currents forming within the core by virtue of being individual plates rather than a solid mass.

Pivot fallacy. I am not talking about a magnetic field in a wire. You can't charge a car that way.

This is most easily and visually seen in the Left- and Right-hand rules for motors and generators.

Wups. You missed one there! You can't charge a car that way!

Thus, a DC magnetic field can be induced into a secondary coil by the secondary coil being in motion.

Then it's not a DC magnetic field. It's a changing field.

EV's used in testing these road induction systems do have charging coils installed and can charge from a DC source in the road.

EVs don't have charging coils in them.

That doesn't make it cost effective or practical by any means.

So a specially modified vehicle, which can only charge by being in motion, can use such an expensive road. I don't think these twits understand the weathering of such a road either.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

 

[T. A. Gardner]

But I do.

Which you apparently have little understanding of.

It is YOU that has NO understanding of what you're talking about

DC motors require a permanent magnet to function. AC motors don't.

Bullshit! A series-wound motor, also known as a "universal motor" can operate on AC or DC and doesn't require any sort of permanent magnets.

Here's the simplest of sources on that:

Universal motor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

DC motor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Pivot fallacy. I am not talking about a magnetic field in a wire. You can't charge a car that way.

Then you have no idea what you're talking about.

Wups. You missed one there! You can't charge a car that way!

You still have ZERO understanding of basic electrical theory saying that.

Then it's not a DC magnetic field. It's a changing field.

More ignorance on your part.