Reality check on electric cars

With the exception of the many R&D groups right now working on any number of advances in the field. This is just a reality. I've seen it with my own eyes. I've read the articles as well. It's real.
Void argument fallacy.
I'm not an electrochemist
Obviously. You deny electrochemistry.
so I'm going to have to ask for a reference on that claim.
Electrochemistry.
Not that I don't believe you, I just don't know for certain.
You don't believe me, OR electrochemistry.
According to Wikipedia the max voltage output of an electrochemical cell is up to 6V so that right there is 2X higher than the max you suggest.
Voltage is not power. False authority fallacy. Wikipedia is not science or electrochemistry.
Hydrogen doesn't. Not only is it difficult as a fuel when in a compressed gas state but solid-state storage as in a metal hydride is pretty low.
Hydrogen is not a metal hydride. Hydrogen is not solid (or even liquid) in standard conditions. It is a gas.
The only versions of a H2 fuel cell car is one in which the H2 is generated from things like methanol. And that's a HORRIBLE fuel. Super dangerous to fuel your car with.
There are vehicles that run on methanol (wood alcohol). It's considered a clean burning 'green' fuel (or was until the paranoia about CO2 came along).
So I definitely need your references for the hard limit to an electrochemical cell. That was NOT my area. (Hydrogen storage, on the other hand, WAS my area briefly.)
You deny chemistry, Twilight. Stop pretending.
Have to disagree on this. When a windmill catches fire and burns to the ground you don't have to abandon the state.
You should get at least 4 miles away from it though. It will start throwing burning debris at you if the propeller is still turning!
The resulting mess must be dismantles and discarded. Large special trucks AND non-recyclable large pieces of waste material.
Also, mining for uranium is not necessarily an environmentally friendly thing.
Oddly enough, it's typically found when mining for something else.
Natural gas, while less CO2 output for the amount of energy generated through burning than gasoline is STILL going to generate CO2. It can't do anything else. That's how it creates the energy from the exothermic oxidation of carbon.
Methane is not carbon.
There is nothing wrong with CO2. It is YOU that is paranoid of the stuff for some reason.

No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth. You cannot create energy out of nothing. You are ignoring the 1st law of thermodynamics.
 
Doesn't feel like you know much about EV's or oil or coal or anything here.
As in my disclaimer, you are going for a projection here. Inversion fallacy.
Can I ask why you think oil is "renewable"?
Oil is a collection of hydrocarbons. They can be synthesized using equipment available to us today. That synthesis uses the same conditions as that found underground (presence of a carbon source such as CO2, presence of a hydrogen source such as water or hydrogen sulfide, the presence of a catalyst (iron), and high heat and pressure. See the Fischer-Tropsche process. Also see the Deep Hole project conducted by the USSR (before that government fell). In that project, the USSR dug a hold extremely deep in the middle of Siberia (far away from any plate edge), and found oil and natural gas. Also, oil and natural gas are found all over the U.S. fairly close or ON the surface, easy to get at for those that want to get it.

The Earth is a giant Fischer-Tropsche reactor. You will find oil anywhere you want to drill for it, if you are willing to go deep enough to find it.
Most oil fields are located on the edges of tectonic plates, where oil comes closest to the surface, particularly where spreading action is occurring.

Oil wells that are pumped dry can be capped, and opened later in a couple of years and they will be full of oil again. It's no different than overpumping a water well. Stop pumping for a bit, and the well will refill.

Fossils are not a liquid nor a gas nor an element of the periodic table. Oil is found well below any fossil layer.
 
I'm a pretty anxious dude. Always been that way my whole life.
That you are. Well, YOUR problem is YOUR problem.
But the level of paranoia and utter abject terror you MAGA folks live in makes me feel positively ZEN most of the time.
DON'T TRY TO BLAME YOUR PROBLEM ON TRUMP!
Every day you get up you have to be mortified about children getting sex change operations in junior high,
Elementary school, and the operations and treatments are done in a clinic, not a school.
women getting pregnant just for the pure joy of an abortion,
Whores have their own problems.
red blooded straight men being forced to gay marry against their will,
No, but 'gay marriage' makes no sense. It is not a marriage. Redefinition fallacy. Reconstruction fallacy. Mantra 30a.
Communism, Islam, Mexicans raping their way across the continent
Mexicans are not communism. Most Mexicans are not Islam, they are Christian or Shinto (like a lot of American indians are).
Illegal aliens are ILLEGAL. They are CRIMINALS. They should be deported. Many that were imported by Biden, Kamala, and Mayorkas (inviting invasion of the United States is an act of treason!), were criminals in their own country of origin, and are now raping, assaulting, and murdering here.
(when not doing yard work), EV cars that are engineered to catch fire if you so much as think about Jesus,
EV's have no religion (in and of themselves at least!). The Li-ion battery pack IS susceptible to fires from defective charging systems, from collisions, from high centering the car, and from corrosion resulting from flood damage or even driving through the snow (and salt!) in some cities.

If the coolant leaks or that system is damaged, battery fire is sure to follow. There is often no warning when a fire is about to occur, and can often occur when the car is charging in a garage (burning the house with it!). Li-ion batteries burn like a firework when they burn. It's a class C fire (electrical fire) and you cannot use water on it until ALL the cells are involved (they quickly will be, but by then the car and anything around it is destroyed). Only when all the cells are involved does the fire revert to a class A fire.
hardcore man-on-man porn in the elementary school libraries,
Except where sensible school districts have banned it.
women earning as much as men,
I hope they do. Wages, like anything in capitalism is subject to price discovery.
women getting good jobs that would normally go to you,
Nope. No women wants my job. I built my own company. No one else wants my job.
women and, of course, windmill cancer.
What is 'windmill cancer'?? Buzzword fallacy.
Sucks to be you.
Hey...it's YOUR extreme argument fallacy and Mantra 30a. It's YOUR problem. You can't blame it on me or anybody else!
 
Oil is a collection of hydrocarbons. They can be synthesized using equipment available to us today.

Yes at a great expense of energy and difficulty. The way oil is formed takes a very long time in nature. It is "renewable" if you have a few spare million years. Not renewable by any stretch of the definition of the word as we know it.

The Germans in WWII tried to do some synthesis and pioneered Fischer-Tropsch etc. but you can't really make a significant amount of petroleum to fuel our cars without it costing millions of times more than just pulling it out of the ground.

That synthesis uses the same conditions as that found underground

No. Not even close. It involves the use of various exotic catalysts. In nature it is a very slow process involving a lot of anaerobic biological alteration followed by millions of years of thermal diagenesis and then slow transfer through permeable rocks to a reservoir.

There's some reason to believe that some of the clays in the source rock shales may have some catalytic functionality. It was something my advisor was working on decades ago. I don't know how far it got. And it may aid in the genesis of the oil but it is not like what is used in synthesizing higher petroleum hydrocarbons.

(presence of a carbon source such as CO2,

It wouldn't start with a fully oxidized carbon like CO2. It would start in a reduced form (C-H hydrocarbons).

presence of a hydrogen source such as water or hydrogen sulfide

That isn't how oil forms naturally. The H comes from the source organics. Google "Van Krevelen Plot" some time.

, the presence of a catalyst (iron)

Nope. If there's anything catalytic in the process it is the interlayer areas of expandable layer clays in the shale things like smectite or montmorillonite.

, and high heat and pressure. See the Fischer-Tropsche process. Also see the Deep Hole project conducted by the USSR (before that government fell). In that project, the USSR dug a hold extremely deep in the middle of Siberia (far away from any plate edge), and found oil and natural gas

No they didn't. On those occasions when very deep organics have been found it is usually very SIMPLE hydrocarbons. Those can easily form naturally from inorganic carbon sources under the right conditions but they are tiny and rare.

And they look NOTHING WHATSOEVER like oil we drill for that goes into gasoline. Not even close.


The Earth is a giant Fischer-Tropsche reactor.

Nope. That isn't how it works. We actually know a HUGE amount about where oil comes from.

You will find oil anywhere you want to drill for it, if you are willing to go deep enough to find it.

That's 100% wrong.

Most oil fields are located on the edges of tectonic plates,

No. Oil fields can be found quite easily in the middle of the Continent. The oil fields that make America a powerhouse are all in the center of the continent.

where oil comes closest to the surface, particularly where spreading action is occurring.

That isn't how geology works.

Oil wells that are pumped dry can be capped, and opened later in a couple of years and they will be full of oil again.

It's called 'recharge' and it's common. Probably not "full of oil" because recharge is pretty slow but the petroleum definitely moves.

It's no different than overpumping a water well. Stop pumping for a bit, and the well will refill.

Yeah, no. That isn't really how it works for oil wells. It's theoretically possible but too slow to be economical.

Same thing in water wells. Like the overpumping happening in the Central Valley in California. It will take thousands of years for those depleted aquafers to get recharge from the Sierras.

Fossils are not a liquid nor a gas nor an element of the periodic table. Oil is found well below any fossil layer.

Wrong. Oil is found in the same places fossils are found.

It's clear you don't know the first thing about petroleum geology.
 
So? How are they going to change the laws of chemistry and the periodic table?


last_thumb1432498839.jpg

While far from the best, it shows the idea and charges of various elements. Not all are suitable for use in a battery. So, while 6 VDC might theoretically be possible, it's highly unlikely because of the elements involved. Either by their scarcity, reactivity, or other properties you just can't use them. A great example of that is say, Fluorine. Toxic, extremely reactive--makes lithium look safe-- either a gas or liquid at usable temperatures, and just all around dangerous to handle. You aren't using that in a battery.
Heh. I notice that you crossed off lead, which is used in lead-acid batteries. Each cell produces 2.2v.
You also crossed off both nickel and cadmium, used in NiCad batteries. Each cell produces 1.2v.
You also crossed off selenium, which generate a voltage proportional to the amount of light that strikes it.
You also crossed off nickel and iron, used in that NiFe battery you mentioned earlier!

Of the metals, lithium is the lightest (and therefore the most stable). Heavier metals are not used in batteries due to their violent reactive nature, particularly around free oxygen or water.

While you DID allow for carbon, you did cross off zinc, used in common AA cells.

Valence charge is not the resulting voltage available in a battery cell.

The issue with hydrogen is storage.
Yes, but the other and bigger issue with hydrogen is manufacturing it.
A thick steel tank looks like a screen door to hydrogen... Anhydrous ammonia is an alternative. It can be made from natural gas and it's easy to store and relatively safe to handle. If the storage problem can be solved, Hydrogen is the fuel of the future. But we could use ammonia in the meantime.
Ammonia is EXTREMELY dangerous to handle! See the MSDS for anhydrous ammonia!
Three Mile Island was a worst-case scenario for the US nuclear power industry. Nobody died.
There was one death, ruled as an industrial accident (it had nothing to do with the leak itself, other than the chaos in the plant trying to deal with the loss of reactor control). No one died of radiation poisoning or suffered radiation sickness.
Nobody got cancer as a result of the accident.
True.
It was properly contained.
Uh...no. A small amount of radioactive steam was vented to the atmosphere. No one died and no one suffered radiation sickness from it.
At the same time, the operators made egregious mistakes over hours trying to resolve the problems. They did virtually everything wrong.
This DID cause damage to plant equipment and one death (an industrial accident...a worker at the turbine station).
Interestingly, Bessie-Davis in Ohio, the same plant design, had the same original cause of the TMI meltdown--a stuck open relief valve on the pressurizer--occur there about a month earlier than the TMI accident. The Bessie-Davis operators recognized the problem correctly and safely shut the reactor down without further problems.
Quite right.
Chernobyl is irrelevant as it is a graphite moderated, fast fission reactor design used NOWHERE in the Western world because it's only marginally safe and it was being operated in an unsafe and unauthorized manner.
Chernobyl had no containment building either, and they were operating the reactor in an unsafe manner.
Fukushima (I'm leaving out a number of smaller incidents) only saw radioactive material released because it lacked a secondary containment like TMI had.
Fukushima has containment around the reactor, including the destroyed reactor in plant 2. That containment was damaged by the tidal wave that struck the plant. With lack of command and control of the reactor (including the ability to scram it), the reactor melted down and became the twisted mass underwater they are cleaning up today with robots. Fishing was not affected, and no Japanese died from the accident (other than plant workers caught in the tidal wave!). Water itself is a shielding for nuclear reactions, and the ocean is no exception.
That is, at TMI the reactor was inside a large, concrete containment building that was damn near bomb proof. At Fukushima, the reactors were in what amounts to big tin sheds.
The tin sheds housed the concrete containment.
Even at Fukushima, the dangers of the accident were limited almost entirely to the site and as with TMI evacuations were mostly done out of an abundance of caution.
It was and is still limited entirely to the site.
The tidal wave did far more damage and killed a lot more people than Fukushima did!
Oh, did you know that cleaning up TMI cost way, way, less than the BP Deepwater Horizon oil platform disaster in the Caribbean?
True, mostly because TMI is easier to get to.
As for uranium mining, it's mostly done in underground mines and uranium ore is only a health hazard if you stand next to it for something like months on end.
Mining is always hazardous, regardless of the material being mined.
It's an alpha emitter.
And a light one at that. Regular clothing stops it.
Lithium mining (for batteries) is far, far more nasty simply by the nature of the process.
True. Lithium mining uses open pit mining or sand extraction mining, both of which are messy. Sand extraction requires literally years of processing to get usable ore.
Uranium mine in Arizona

a3b9c456-d3e0-4d88-a81e-d11fa347d64b-IMG_0125.jpg


Lithium recovery after ore is mined in US

Lithium-mining-in-the-USA.jpg


The mining itself is usually open pit with massive tailings.
This is not an open pit mine. It's a sand extraction mine. These ponds will be leaching lithium for years to produce usable ore. They contain sulfuric acid.
Natural gas is only necessary with nuclear power to run as peaking plants for intermittent use during heavy load periods.
Natural gas is plentiful and much cheaper than nuclear power. It's also a renewable fuel.
So, the relatively small amount of CO2 released is pretty much irrelevant compared to anything currently in use.
It is completely irrelevant as far as Earth's temperature is concerned.
 
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I was thinking more in terms of electrochemical and redox reactions to show the theoretical limit of a cell. I know the valence of the groups.
Electrochemistry is not redox reactions. Stop pretending you're a chemist, Twilight.
I think that might be the first time I've heard anyone suggest that anhydrous ammonia is "safe to handle". It's a pretty aggressive chemical. I once saw an entire office building emptied out because of an ammonia leak. It is an acute toxin with among the highest ratings for risk per the NFPA (3). It also takes a lot of energy to get the H2 off the NH3. The Dept of Energy has a nice summary of the challenges of using NH3 for the H2 economy


But this isn't a matter of the storage of H2. This is a matter of making H2.
He's not talking about making hydrogen from ammonia. Pay attention.
About 25 years ago I was at a transportation fuels conference in Europe. They basically said that EXACT THING. H2 storage is the nut to crack. Until then it would always be a fringe of the transportation fuel market. And the truth has borne out over the last quarter century.

Of course we were working with solid state storage which was looking promising (it wasn't metal hydrides), but it didn't pan out.
Hydrogen is a gas under standard conditions.
I'm digging the more "inherently safe" designs that people have been working on over the past couple decades. There's also the small modular units like those from NuScale that are intriguing. There's a lot of potential to this technology even still.

But we both know that the public is going to balk, and possibly rightly so. We still struggle to deal with the waste and even our best efforts like Yucca Mtn. can fall apart at the last minute.
Yukka Mountain is susceptible to earthquakes and flooding. It's in the desert.
That and they put too much of their pumps necessary to move the water in a place perfectly designed to be destroyed in a tsunami. I sometimes wonder if they realized tsunami is a Japanese word. :)
They do.
Tokyo was not destroyed by a tsunami. Only one plant melted down. Others have been repaired and are operating today.

Even then we have countless claims against the uranium mining industry for cancers incurred by the miners.
Argument from randU fallacy.
Yes it is an alpha emitter
Meh.
but if you breathe any in you have a radioactive friend inside you for a very long time.
Nope. You breath it right back out again. Further, water stops alpha particles.
And even though an alpha can't get through a sheet of paper, if its pressed against your lung tissue it's bad.
Nope. Your own body produces alpha particles.
Lithium mining is definitely not a great thing, but it can also be done by brine evaporation as opposed to active hard rock mining. Only some Li comes from hard rock spodumene mining.
Brine evaporation requires a tremendous amount of water in desert areas, where water is hard to come by. Further, it leaves behind deposits of toxic sulfur compounds and it takes years to leach the lithium.

See the images T.A. Gardner so kindly provided you.
Uranium mining also produces tailings.
So? Do you know what a 'tailing' is and what it's made of?
All rock-based mining produces tailings.
So does sand extraction (brine evap mining). So?
In the case of U mining tailings there's a lot of other radioactive isotopes in there like Th etc. So it's not particularly friendly stuff either.
You are making shit up again, Twilight. Tailings do not contain any radioactive material at all.
If we want to talk tailings and waste, coal is pretty awful.
Obviously you have no idea what 'tailings' are or what they are made of. There is nothing 'awful' about rocks and sand.
 
So as a Trumpy, you have to make up scenarios an thnk we will change the thread. People will keep ICEs. You keep a car until it has to be replaced. Then you can buy an EV and find out how wrong you were.
I won't be buying an EV. I'll buy gasoline and diesel cars.
 
Yes at a great expense of energy and difficulty. The way oil is formed takes a very long time in nature. It is "renewable" if you have a few spare million years. Not renewable by any stretch of the definition of the word as we know it.

The Germans in WWII tried to do some synthesis and pioneered Fischer-Tropsch etc. but you can't really make a significant amount of petroleum to fuel our cars without it costing millions of times more than just pulling it out of the ground.



No. Not even close. It involves the use of various exotic catalysts. In nature it is a very slow process involving a lot of anaerobic biological alteration followed by millions of years of thermal diagenesis and then slow transfer through permeable rocks to a reservoir.

There's some reason to believe that some of the clays in the source rock shales may have some catalytic functionality. It was something my advisor was working on decades ago. I don't know how far it got. And it may aid in the genesis of the oil but it is not like what is used in synthesizing higher petroleum hydrocarbons.



It wouldn't start with a fully oxidized carbon like CO2. It would start in a reduced form (C-H hydrocarbons).



That isn't how oil forms naturally. The H comes from the source organics. Google "Van Krevelen Plot" some time.



Nope. If there's anything catalytic in the process it is the interlayer areas of expandable layer clays in the shale things like smectite or montmorillonite.



No they didn't. On those occasions when very deep organics have been found it is usually very SIMPLE hydrocarbons. Those can easily form naturally from inorganic carbon sources under the right conditions but they are tiny and rare.

And they look NOTHING WHATSOEVER like oil we drill for that goes into gasoline. Not even close.




Nope. That isn't how it works. We actually know a HUGE amount about where oil comes from.
It is how it works, dummy.
That's 100% wrong.
Argument of the Stone fallacy.
No. Oil fields can be found quite easily in the middle of the Continent.
In some places. Oil is usually found at the edges of tectonic plates, particularly where spreading action is taking place.
The oil fields that make America a powerhouse are all in the center of the continent.
Some are, but most are along the the gulf or north of the gulf a bit. The edge of a spreading tectonic plate.
That isn't how geology works.
Yes it is.
It's called 'recharge' and it's common. Probably not "full of oil" because recharge is pretty slow but the petroleum definitely moves.
It is full of oil. Whole fields operate this way.
Yeah, no. That isn't really how it works for oil wells. It's theoretically possible but too slow to be economical.
It is how it works for oil wells.
Same thing in water wells. Like the overpumping happening in the Central Valley in California. It will take thousands of years for those depleted aquafers to get recharge from the Sierras.
Water wells are not aquifers, dummy. Redefinition fallacy. They fill with the next rainy season.

Wrong. Oil is found in the same places fossils are found.
Nope. Oil is found well below any fossil layer.
It's clear you don't know the first thing about petroleum geology.
DON'T TRY TO BLAME YOUR PROBLEM ON ME OR ANYBODY ELSE!
 
Wrong too. This is cherry picking. The biggest drawback to an EV is the charging time versus fill up. The other big difference is that EV power is not portable. That is, you can't haul along more charge, where with gasoline it's possible to haul extra gallons of fuel in a vehicle.
Another big difference is the wasted energy in an EV.
 
Emissions have nothing to do with it. Hydrogen or anhydrous ammonia are portable. Battery power is not. How a hydrogen powered vehicle makes power is largely irrelevant to the issue. The issue is that you can fill a hydrogen powered car in minutes like you would with gasoline versus taking hours to charge an EV.

The fatal flaw in EV's is the charging time and the non-portability of the energy source.
It takes about a half an hour to fill a hydrogen car. The problem is freezing nozzles due to the ideal gas law.
 
The way oil is formed takes a very long time in nature. It is "renewable" if you have a few spare million years. Not renewable by any stretch of the definition of the word as we know it.
It does not take millions of years. Oil is forming continuously.
The Germans in WWII tried to do some synthesis
They succeeded.
and pioneered Fischer-Tropsch etc.
They succeeded.
but you can't really make a significant amount of petroleum to fuel our cars
The fueled their cars and tanks with it!
without it costing millions of times more than just pulling it out of the ground.
It is more expensive the simply drilling for it, true.
No. Not even close. It involves the use of various exotic catalysts.
Nope. Iron is not exotic.
In nature it is a very slow process
It is not a slow process.
involving a lot of anaerobic biological alteration
There is no 'alteration' of any kind. It is direct synthesis.
followed by millions of years of thermal diagenesis
None of any kind. It is direct synthesis.
and then slow transfer through permeable rocks to a reservoir.
No 'transfer' needed.
There's some reason to believe that some of the clays in the source rock shales may have some catalytic functionality.
Nope. The catalyst is iron.
It was something my advisor was working on decades ago.
Stop pretending, Twilight. You deny chemistry.
It wouldn't start with a fully oxidized carbon like CO2. It would start in a reduced form (C-H hydrocarbons).
The Fischer-Tropsche process works with any carbon compound, or with just plain carbon.
You don't make hydrocarbons from hydrocarbons in the Fischer-Tropsche process.
That isn't how oil forms naturally.
It is.
The H comes from the source organics.
Hydrogen isn't organic.
Nope. If there's anything catalytic in the process it is the interlayer areas of expandable layer clays in the shale things like smectite or montmorillonite.
The catalyst is iron.
No they didn't. On those occasions when very deep organics have been found it is usually very SIMPLE hydrocarbons.
All hydrocarbons are simple.
Those can easily form naturally from inorganic carbon
Carbon is not organic.
sources under the right conditions but they are tiny and rare.
They can be of most any common length, including octanes.
And they look NOTHING WHATSOEVER like oil we drill for that goes into gasoline. Not even close.
Hydrocarbons are hydrocarbons, Twilight.
 
It does not take millions of years. Oil is forming continuously.

They succeeded.

They succeeded.

The fueled their cars and tanks with it!

It is more expensive the simply drilling for it, true.

Nope. Iron is not exotic.

It is not a slow process.

There is no 'alteration' of any kind. It is direct synthesis.

None of any kind. It is direct synthesis.

No 'transfer' needed.

Nope. The catalyst is iron.

Stop pretending, Twilight. You deny chemistry.

The Fischer-Tropsche process works with any carbon compound, or with just plain carbon.
You don't make hydrocarbons from hydrocarbons in the Fischer-Tropsche process.

It is.

Hydrogen isn't organic.

The catalyst is iron.

All hydrocarbons are simple.

Carbon is not organic.

They can be of most any common length, including octanes.

Hydrocarbons are hydrocarbons, Twilight.

There are simply too many errors to point them all out individually. Pretty much everything you claim is wrong at some level if not at all levels.

It would take too long to explain this to you. And it's clear you and I have very different levels of competency in this topic.
 
Emissions have nothing to do with it. Hydrogen or anhydrous ammonia are portable.

H2 is portable but almost no one is going to want to drive in California traffic with a tank of compressed hydrogen on their car. So you're stuck with solid storage like in metal hydrides. Those are bulky and heavy for the amount of hydrogen they can store. That leaves a reformer of some sort either using NH3 (aggressive and dangerous chemical) or CH3OH (aggressive and dangerous chemical that burns invisibly making refueling a car a dodgy experience).

Battery power is not. How a hydrogen powered vehicle makes power is largely irrelevant to the issue.

Actually it's very much the issue. Direct application of H2 in a fuel cell is one thing, making H2 onboard the car is another.

And you are forgetting the concepts of the "Switchable Battery Packs" which make refueling a lot faster for EV's.

The fatal flaw in EV's is the charging time and the non-portability of the energy source.

DC Fast charging exists which can fill the EV in something like 20 minutes. Still a lot longer than filling up at the gas station, but if the swappable battery packs thing takes off it will be much faster.

Either way EV's aren't for everyone nor for every use application.

When I was in Norway about 20 years ago at a conference on hydrogen fuel cell vehicles they basically said that unless the H2 storage situation could be worked out Fuel Cell cars would forever be a niche thing. And the last 20+ years it looks exactly like that is true.
 
\


I'm a pretty anxious dude. Always been that way my whole life. But the level of paranoia and utter abject terror you MAGA folks live in makes me feel positively ZEN most of the time.

Every day you get up you have to be mortified about children getting sex change operations in junior high, women getting pregnant just for the pure joy of an abortion, red blooded straight men being forced to gay marry against their will, Communism, Islam, Mexicans raping their way across the continent (when not doing yard work), EV cars that are engineered to catch fire if you so much as think about Jesus, hardcore man-on-man porn in the elementary school libraries, women earning as much as men, women getting good jobs that would normally go to you, women and, of course, windmill cancer.

Sucks to be you. If you like I think there are some antianxiety meds available or even some antipsychotic meds. The ones that can make the sharks stop talking to you about how much they want your electric boat to sink.
it's really just about tariffs and border enforcement.

the rest you hallucinated because you're dumb.
 
H2 is portable but almost no one is going to want to drive in California traffic with a tank of compressed hydrogen on their car. So you're stuck with solid storage like in metal hydrides. Those are bulky and heavy for the amount of hydrogen they can store. That leaves a reformer of some sort either using NH3 (aggressive and dangerous chemical) or CH3OH (aggressive and dangerous chemical that burns invisibly making refueling a car a dodgy experience).



Actually it's very much the issue. Direct application of H2 in a fuel cell is one thing, making H2 onboard the car is another.

And you are forgetting the concepts of the "Switchable Battery Packs" which make refueling a lot faster for EV's.



DC Fast charging exists which can fill the EV in something like 20 minutes. Still a lot longer than filling up at the gas station, but if the swappable battery packs thing takes off it will be much faster.

Either way EV's aren't for everyone nor for every use application.

When I was in Norway about 20 years ago at a conference on hydrogen fuel cell vehicles they basically said that unless the H2 storage situation could be worked out Fuel Cell cars would forever be a niche thing. And the last 20+ years it looks exactly like that is true.
let's just go with plentiful fossil fuel that does actually renew itself.
 
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