Reality check on electric cars

T. A. Gardner said:
750 k cir mil copper stranded 600 V rated weighs 8.33 lbs. a foot. Try hundreds of pounds of cable even running just a short distance. Hence why you need a wench, a come-along and you better buy a big jug of pull soap along with a kellems (slang for pull sock). The wench and pull sock are necessary to pull the cable. The come-along is necessary to bend the cable flat for pulling because you can't do any of that by hand with cable that big. You'll also have to put in several runs of conduit as 2 750's + your ground cable from the street won't all fit in any of the normal trade sizes of EMT or NMC that you can easily buy.

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Of course, any conduit over 1" requires hydraulic bending or use of pre-bent elbows. For burial, it's PVC but you need a heater or prebends for elbows, etc.

Okay, Washington state is more virulent on regulations than Arizona. I can see that. An engineering stamp will run you anywhere from about $500 to $5000 to get depending on the guy you hire.

I'd also think a charge that fast is going to generate a lot of heat as a side effect. That could be a real hazard...
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The car will reject such a charging rate to protect the battery (and pass transistor). That heat is caused by the battery's internal resistance. It is a portion of the energy going into the battery.

Like an incandescent light bulb, some of that energy goes into the desired effect (charging the battery). The rest goes into useless heat.

Yes. Ramming that much current into most any battery will start a fire in many battery packs. Once started, of course, Li-ion batteries burn like a firework. You can put an individual one out with water, but with a pack, you have to treat it like a class C fire. CO2 extinguishers will work best here, but ABC chemical extinguishers are also very effective if you don't mind the mess.


Your note about pulling this type of cable is certainly valid. Any high current charging station will have to do this cable pull for at least two cables (assuming an ungrounded system). That requirement depends somewhat on local code. Most places will require a grounded system.
 
DTE , our electric company, is selling no2 level chargers for 700 bucks and giving back 500 in rebates. I just have to get an electrician to install a 240 box and cable. They are encouraging us to get one with that deal.
 
Into the Night said:
The car will reject such a charging rate to protect the battery (and pass transistor). That heat is caused by the battery's internal resistance. It is a portion of the energy going into the battery.

Like an incandescent light bulb, some of that energy goes into the desired effect (charging the battery). The rest goes into useless heat.

Yes. Ramming that much current into most any battery will start a fire in many battery packs. Once started, of course, Li-ion batteries burn like a firework. You can put an individual one out with water, but with a pack, you have to treat it like a class C fire. CO2 extinguishers will work best here, but ABC chemical extinguishers are also very effective if you don't mind the mess.


Your note about pulling this type of cable is certainly valid. Any high current charging station will have to do this cable pull for at least two cables (assuming an ungrounded system). That requirement depends somewhat on local code. Most places will require a grounded system.
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just stop, you are too stupid to figure out facemasks so this stuff is way beyond you
 
Nordberg said:
DTE , our electric company, is selling no2 level chargers for 700 bucks and giving back 500 in rebates. I just have to get an electrician to install a 240 box and cable. They are encouraging us to get one with that deal.
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Of course they are. They stand to make a lot of money off of fools like you.
 
Lionfish said:
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This is true for most parts of the Northeast United States. Elsewhere, electrical power is primarily generated using natural gas or oil (in that order).

Coal is actually very clean burning these days, in a modern coal plant. The impurities are burnt out and remain as ash to be cleaned from the furnace, sulfur gases are captured in the smokestack and de-oxidized, and the sulfur is sold to industry. That cloud coming out of the 'smokestack' is steam. Soot going up the stack is wasted fuel. This was common in old coal plants, many of which you can still find in China. It was the soot that caused the smokey skies of turn of the century London and lately in China.

Capturing the sulfur now prevents acid rain. The same system also captures mercury, another industrial chemical that can be sold.

Burning coal makes just CO2. The steam is from the use of boiler steam. Burning sulfur impurities in the coal produces SO2 compounds, which are easily captured. Any mercury impurities in the coal are not burned, but are captured by the same scrubbers used to capture SO2 compounds.

Mercury occurs naturally in deep lakes. A fair bit of mercury is actually 'mined' in this way. Being heavier than water, it is found in the bottom of the lake.

Oil is a renewable fuel, in which conditions underground naturally produce the reaction to synthesize coal (see the Fischer-Tropsche process).
This is why an oil well can be pumped dry, capped, and when uncapped later (usually 1-3 years) it is full of oil again. Oil is a hydrocarbon. Burning it produces CO2 and water. Inefficient burning causes soot, just like coal. These are particulates of carbon in the air, and are washed out by the rain.

Natural gas is also a renewable fuel available from many sources including oil byproducts, landfills, wells, swamps, etc. This clean burning fuel is also a hydrocarbon, producing CO2 and water. Inefficient burning produces very little soot. Transportation is the biggest issue, since it can easily leak if not properly plumbed. The odor in natural gas is added artificially, so it makes it easier to detect a leak. Natural gas is actually odorless and colorless.

NONE of these fuels are fossils in any way, shape, or form. A fossil is an image of a plant or animal cast in stone or converted to stone. These are typically found in sedimentary rock such as limestone. They do not burn. We do not use them for fuel.

Coal may contain fossils, but is not itself a fossil. It is pure carbon (usually found containing some impurities).
Oil is a liquid. It is not a fossil.
Natural gas, well, a gas. It is not a fossil.

The Democrats refer to 'fossil fuels' as 'evil fuels'. In other words, they are using the term 'fossil' as 'evil'. Coal, oil, and natural gas are 'evil fuels' to the Democrats and other liberals (essentially the Church of Green).

Electric cars are usually charged by burning one of these three fuels. Thus, the meme is correct, whether you refer to the electric car as coal-fired, oil-fired, or methane-fired. They use 'evil fuel' to charge.

The other downside, of course, is the length of time it takes to charge electric cars from drained battery to full charge (about 10-12 hours using a typical charging bay like this). This makes the electric car impractical for cross country open road use, or for commercial vehicle use where the vehicle must work all day, such as semi-trucks, trains, ships, many tractors, material handling equipment such as dump trucks, all-day use forklifts, farming equipment, etc.
 
You are far ahead of me on the possibilities of the entire country being forced into electric vehicles. I question the viability of that concept based on the hundreds of thousands of products that are by-products of manufacturing gasoline.
 
Here’s your wedding gift.

晴実


My father owned the place. We take the dents out of accidents. Midnight auto.

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This place was a war zone. ;)

Cody and Wyckoff.

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Drum
Madison
TZO
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It’s only kids.
 
I ADORE the sound of a normally-aspirated V8 engine.
Have owned many Mustangs, Camaros, Challengers and Corvettes.

But I cannot wait until someone builds an electric car for under $20K with 150+ mile range in America BEFORE tax incentives.
No toys.
Just a basic, EV car that costs $20K with a 150 mile range.
PS, PB, PW, PDL, A/C, ABS...nothing more.
No head unit, no gimmicks, no toys.
Just BASIC transportation.

If they ever can/do built it at a profit?
It will kill gasoline cars as basic transportation.

And that is good for consumers in SO many ways (I barely give a shit about the environment).
Far lower 'fuel/power' costs.
Far less maintenance required.
Far lower maintenance costs.
Last far longer (with great battery warranties they have these days).
 
Nordberg said:
You keep fucking around.
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Inversion fallacy. You are describing yourself.
Nordberg said:
You know damn well how auto pollution hurts heath.
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CO2 and water are not pollution. Ozone is not pollution and dissipates quickly (it's an unstable molecule). NoX gasses are severely reduced by any functioning EGR system (that's what it does). Carbon monoxide only results from a badly running engine. Sulfur is processed out of fuel before it ever is pumped into the tank. There is no sulfur dioxide emitted from the tailpipe. You can't even define what 'pollution' even means.

Nordberg said:
If not you are cloistered.https://madhavuniversity.edu.in/vehicular-pollution.html
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False authority fallacy. You can't deny chemistry using a website.
Nordberg said:
You do not discuss things honestly.
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That would be you. Inversion fallacy.


Now. Let's talk about electric cars and their problems:

Lithium, while commonly available, must be strip mined and shipped to refineries, which use tremendous amounts of energy to smelt it.
Li-ion batteries will lose the ability to charge after 7 years or so. The entire pack must be replaced. This leaves discarded Li-ion battery packs. Since the process is expensive to replace them, most people just give up the car. There aren't many takers for used electric cars. The resale value sucks. Now you have a car with bad batteries that very few people want. Now what? Wrecking yard!

The cars take a long time to charge (10-12 hours, according to Tesla, using a standard charger). This makes them useless for cross country trips. They are typically charged from generators in power plants, that operate by BURNING FUEL.
 
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Into the Night said:
Inversion fallacy. You are describing yourself.

CO2 and water are not pollution. Ozone is not pollution and dissipates quickly (it's an unstable molecule). NoX gasses are severely reduced by any functioning EGR system (that's what it does). Carbon monoxide only results from a badly running engine. Sulfur is processed out of fuel before it ever is pumped into the tank. There is no sulfur dioxide emitted from the tailpipe. You can't even define what 'pollution' even means.


False authority fallacy. You can't deny chemistry using a website.

That would be you. Inversion fallacy.


Now. Let's talk about electric cars and their problems:

Lithium, while commonly available, must be strip mined and shipped to refineries, which use tremendous amounts of energy to smelt it.
Li-ion batteries will lose the ability to charge after 7 years or so. The entire pack must be replaced. This leaves discarded Li-ion battery packs. Since the process is expensive to replace them, most people just give up the car. There aren't many takers for used electric cars. The resale value sucks. Now you have a car with bad batteries that very few people want. Now what? Wrecking yard!

The cars take a long time to charge (10-12 hours, according to Tesla, using a standard charger). This makes them useless for cross country trips. They are typically charged from generators in power plants, that operate by BURNING FUEL.
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Lithium is in vaping devices, tools, cell phones, tablets, laptops, Ebikes. hoverboards, scooters, electric toothbrushes, and many many more.
I give you infoe\o and you refuse to face it. ICE pollution is bad for buildings, bridges, people, lungs, water animals and even Trumpies.
Tesla can be charged in 1 hr. https://www.energysage.com/electric-vehicles/charging-your-ev/charging-a-tesla/
 
Let's talk about comfort controls in these electric vehicles.. :laugh:

It all runs of of electric? Wow, that's gonna suck battery juice down and not be very powerful.
 
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