Religious Typology Quiz

Cypress said:
If you want to believe the Jewish God is genocidal, that's fine.
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The thing is: I don't. It's one of the many reasons I think the God concept is impossible. It is theologically absurd.

But I'm most surprised at how you seem unaware of what is in much of the Pentateuch. I find it surprising because you seem like you know quite a bit about this topic.

But a recognizable Jewish religion didn't exist at the time of Exodus and Judges.
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WHAT ABOUT AT THE TIME THE BOOKS WERE ACTUALLY WRITTEN?

^^^^^this was a key point I made which you, as per usual, just skated right by.

God is beside the point.
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Not when comparing the body counts between atheists and religious people it isn't.

I'm not here to deal with anyone's pent up hostility towards the Jewish God.
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There you go again. You really are more shallow of a thinker than I gave you credit for. Apologies for overestimating your facility with discussions. You seem to brook ZERO disagreement and when you are faced with disagreements that don't go away you start accusing them of all manner of things like hatred or antisemitism etc.

That isn't a robust rhetorical approach.

But I understand. Your faith is deeply held for you. It brings you comfort. You can look to your God to forgive you your sins and protect you.

(Make sure to tell me how you aren't religious and you don't appreciate being told you are. I will then point you to my favorite verse in the entire bible. Luke 6:31)
 
Cypress said:
If you want to believe the Jewish God is genocidal, that's fine. But a recognizable Jewish religion didn't exist at the time of Exodus and Judges.

All the points I made in this thread about the nature of innate human ideas and ethics were strictly based on historical and cultural realities that exist, whether or not any dieties or genocidal gods exist.

God is beside the point.
I'm not here to deal with anyone's pent up hostility towards the Jewish God.
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The Hebrew religion came into being when Abraham was circumcised ,that was the start of the covenant between God and Abraham.
 
NovoJank said:
The thing is: I don't. It's one of the many reasons I think the God concept is impossible. It is theologically absurd.

But I'm most surprised at how you seem unaware of what is in much of the Pentateuch. I find it surprising because you seem like you know quite a bit about this topic.



WHAT ABOUT AT THE TIME THE BOOKS WERE ACTUALLY WRITTEN?

^^^^^this was a key point I made which you, as per usual, just skated right by.

Not when comparing the body counts between atheists and religious people it isn't.


You really are more shallow of a thinker than I gave you credit for. Apologies for overestimating your facility with discussions. You seem to brook ZERO disagreement and when you are faced with disagreements that don't go away you start accusing them of all manner of things like hatred or antisemitism etc.

That isn't a robust rhetorical approach.

But I understand. Your faith is deeply held for you. It brings you comfort. You can look to your God to forgive you your sins and protect you.

(Make sure to tell me how you aren't religious and you don't appreciate being told you are. I will then point you to my favorite verse in the entire bible. Luke 6:31)
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I'll get back to you when you're less angry.
 
I AM said:
The Hebrew religion came into being when Abraham was circumcised ,that was the start of the covenant between God and Abraham.
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There's no such thing as a "Hebrew religion". The Hebrews were a tribe. A recognizable religion of Judaism didn't exist until the 6th century BCE.

Abraham is the father of three religions.

Modern Judaism evolved from Yahwism, the religion of ancient Israel and Judah, by the late 6th century BCE

Wikipedia
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I AM said:
You know exactly what I am saying, and chose to deflect!
So let me rephrase modern religion started with God's covenant with Abraham.
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Islam also claims Abraham as the father of their religion.

What the Hebrew tribes were practicing 3500 years ago wasn't monotheism, and it is more properly called Yahwism. A recognizable religion of Judaism didn't exist until about the 6th BCE, and actually a lot of the Hebrew Bible wasn't composed until well after that
 
Cypress said:
A recognizable religion of Judaism didn't exist until about the 6th BCE, and actually a lot of the Hebrew Bible wasn't composed until well after that
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WHICH would, obviously, mean that JEWISH PEOPLE wrote the Pentateuch. If Judaism didn't exist until 6BCE and a lot of the Hebrew Bible was written after that it stands to reason that Jewish people wrote the Pentateuch.

THIS MEANS that Jewish people, in writing up their history (semi-mythical as is quite common) they explicitly included all the slaughters and all the commands of God to commit slaughter as well as stories of God helping with the slaughter by "delivering the cities unto Joshua". (Unless you think non-Jews wrote up the history of Israel after Judaism started to exist and the Jews of the time (post 6BCE) decided that they'd go ahead and incorporate that into their Pentateuch and take it as their own.)

So you don't call me an antisemite: note I don't think that modern Jews would be OK with that, but it is definitely part of the faith. Just like it is a part of Christianity because it is the first places we are told about "GOD". BUT this is not the whole and only part of the religion. Both faiths contain a lot of really good stuff in there too..
 
Cypress said:
Islam also claims Abraham as the father of their religion.

What the Hebrew tribes were practicing 3500 years ago wasn't monotheism, and it is more properly called Yahwism. A recognizable religion of Judaism didn't exist until about the 6th BCE, and actually a lot of the Hebrew Bible wasn't composed until well after that
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You're completely ignoring God's covenant with Abraham was Square one to the Religious world that we live in today.
 
Cypress said:
Islam also claims Abraham as the father of their religion.

What the Hebrew tribes were practicing 3500 years ago wasn't monotheism, and it is more properly called Yahwism. A recognizable religion of Judaism didn't exist until about the 6th BCE, and actually a lot of the Hebrew Bible wasn't composed until well after that
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"Recogniable religion" and the Bible are meaningless without Square One! God's covenant with Abraham!
You want to start religion in the 4th inning.
 
I AM said:
"Recogniable religion" and the Bible are meaningless without Square One! God's covenant with Abraham!
You want to start religion in the 4th inning.
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If you want to make an artificial rule that religion never evolves into distinct forms and must always identify itself with the original source, you might as well call yourself a Zoroastrian.

Zoroastrianism was the first monotheistic religion in the Near East that was conceivably monotheistic, and had a conception of a judgement day and an afterlife.

The Near Eastern religions of Yahwism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam in some real sense likely draws their foundational ideas and inspiration from Zoroastrianism.
 
Cypress said:
If you want to make an artificial rule that religion never evolves into distinct forms and must always identify itself with the original source, you might as well call yourself a Zoroastrian.

Zoroastrianism was the first monotheistic religion in the Near East that was conceivably monotheistic and had a conception of a judgement day and an afterlife.

The Near Eastern religions of Yahwism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam in some real sense likely draws their foundational ideas and inspiration from Zoroastrianism.
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You're completely caught up with organized religion, completely in the dark with the Spirit situation.
It's impossible to get through your mental block.
You could never be called,your only hope is to be Chosen.
 
NovoJank said:
WHICH would, obviously, mean that JEWISH PEOPLE wrote the Pentateuch. If Judaism didn't exist until 6BCE and a lot of the Hebrew Bible was written after that it stands to reason that Jewish people wrote the Pentateuch.

THIS MEANS that Jewish people, in writing up their history (semi-mythical as is quite common) they explicitly included all the slaughters and all the commands of God to commit slaughter as well as stories of God helping with the slaughter by "delivering the cities unto Joshua". (Unless you think non-Jews wrote up the history of Israel after Judaism started to exist and the Jews of the time (post 6BCE) decided that they'd go ahead and incorporate that into their Pentateuch and take it as their own.)

So you don't call me an antisemite: note I don't think that modern Jews would be OK with that, but it is definitely part of the faith. Just like it is a part of Christianity because it is the first places we are told about "GOD". BUT this is not the whole and only part of the religion. Both faiths contain a lot of really good stuff in there too..
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My point was about the ethical frameworks that arose out of the religious and intellectual traditions of the Axial Age, which conventionally is considered to be about 600 to 200 BCE. Right in the heart of the iron age.

If you want to complain about what the Yahweh said centuries earlier in the late Bronze age, find a Jewish person to complain to.

That is irrelevant to the point I made.

Cypress said:
I think the prohibitions on murder or stealing found in the Code of Hammurabi is more like a criminal code. It's not a comprehensive binding moral vision.

Being able to restrain oneself from murdering and raping is such a low moral threshold to surpass, the bar barely clears the ground. You can barely call that a moral framework.

We don't see any evidence in pre-classical era surviving literature of a focus on the types of individual virtues and values that we take for granted today. And those basically are first found in the Axial Age texts of Confucius, Plato/Aristotle, Zarathustra, The Buddha, The Dhammapada, and the (major and minor) Jewish prophets, (aka Isiah, Amos, Micah).
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Cypress said:
My point was about the ethical frameworks that arose out of the religious and intellectual traditions of the Axial Age, which conventionally is considered to be about 600 to 200 BCE. Right in the heart of the iron age.

If you want to complain about what the Yahweh said centuries earlier in the late Bronze age, find a Jewish person to complain to.

That is irrelevant to the point I made.
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I think we can all agree that any point raised that does not comport with your wishes is irrelevant to your point. That seems to be the modus operandi working here.

But I appreciate you dismissing my points with your ex cathedra proclamations. As you said earlier: I wish I could be as certain of my correctness as you are of yours.
 
NovoJank said:
I think we can all agree that any point raised that does not comport with your wishes is irrelevant to your point. That seems to be the modus operandi working here.

But I appreciate you dismissing my points with your ex cathedra proclamations. As you said earlier: I wish I could be as certain of my correctness as you are of yours.
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I'm just not that interested in discussing a cherry picked quote from the TaNaKh. You should find a Jewish person to complain to.

I don't like it either when Rightwingers cherry pick quotes trying to prove some conservative point, and I tell them so.

Cherry picking the Qur'an was one on Republican's favorite pastimes to show how supposedly evil Islam is..

I have made it a point to acquire a basic working knowledge of world religions, and one of the first thing I learned is that there is not much valuable to be learned when rank amateurs and laypersons present their favorite cherry picks.
 
Cypress said:
I'm just not that interested in discussing a cherry picked quote from the TaNaKh. You should find a Jewish person to complain to.
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Fair enough. I get you are uncomfortable talking about your faith. That's OK. It's your faith. It is personal to you. I don't wish to further antagonize you by disagree with you.

I have made it a point to acquire a basic working knowledge of world religions, and one of the first thing I learned is that there is not much valuable to be learned when rank amateurs and laypersons present their favorite cherry picks.
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I love the way you continue to insult by suggesting I'm just "cherry picking". Again, you are clearly upset that I have said something unpleasant about your faith. It was not my intention to say bad things about your faith.

I attempted numerous times to explain myself but you continue to simply ignore it.

You are, as I noted earlier, NOT an honest broker in the conversation.

I suggest you learn how to take disagreements somewhat better. And my apologies if I spoke too harshly against your faith. That was not the point.
 
Cypress said:
It's a stretch to say anyone on this thread is violent, or even promoting violence.

I think on message boards there tend to be two teams that form: the holy rollers and the atheists, and they are mutually belligerent but not necessarily violent.

A lot of other message boarders don't play on either team, and are free to see Judaism, Christianity, and Buddhism as systems of thought and ethical frameworks which exist as historical and cultural realities, irrespective of whether any divine beings exist.

As a cultural and historical reality, I feel like I can treat Christianity, Marxism, and Transcendentalism from the same detached historical perspective.
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Disagreed. While it’s very difficult to identify if a person will truly become violent or not, identifying those promoting violence is easy if one uses the definition of Hate Speech.

Jank lies about theists by claiming they are following a Genocidal God. Ergo, according to him, they much be advocating genocide too and, therefore, are a threat which must be stopped.

How is Jank any different than Nazis lying about Jews? White Supremacists lying about African-Americans?

https://www.un.org/en/hate-speech/understanding-hate-speech/what-is-hate-speech
In common language, “hate speech” refers to offensive discourse targeting a group or an individual based on inherent characteristics (such as race, religion or gender) and that may threaten social peace.
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