Tell us why you're afraid of adult conversation. All you do is attack the messenger. We should've been able to talk about Plato's Cave. It's obvious you Googled it.
Religious Typology Quiz
- Thread starter signalmankenneth
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BidenPresident
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Hey asshole. Any dimwit could write "kant ethics" in their address bar and find search results that Kant argued AGAINST pleasure as the basis for ethics. You are a stupid fucking asshole.
Let's read Ephesians in the NIV so we can place it into better context:
26 “In your anger do not sin”[d]: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, 27 and do not give the devil a foothold.
This is a better translation of that verse, basically it tells you not to go to bed angry.
It is even better in context if you start at the beginning (Same chapter 4):
2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.
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When I set out to read the Bible front to back I chose the NRSV. I love the flowery language of the KJV and so I tend to quote it more often, but, indeed, the newer translations are fantastic.
If freedom just means the absence of restraint on one's actions, one could be free to sit in front of the TV all day, mentally atrophy, and live a life of sloth, gluttony, and sin.
That is no sentient person's idea of freedom, and it is in fact a type of slavery. Slavery to ignorance, vice, sin, and desire
I compared it to when I was taking classes in Bible College (I was forced to attend the classes after I made the unfortunate decision to tell my mother I was not a believer). The classes I took studied the bible in original Greek and Hebrew (I did NOT study Aramaic, thankfully). The newer translations are definitely better understood (and better translated) than KJV.
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Is that not freedom in the same way that "religious freedom" is? How is it not freedom?
That sounds dangerously like "No True Scotsman".
But is not one free to pursue those things if that is what they want? Look at the people on this forum. They are "free" to be as insulting and vicious to each other as imaginable. And we see it with many posts. Why is THAT any less "free" than the high minded philosophical aphorism you continuously quote?
Most of western society still lives under Kant's ethics of pleasure for the group as a whole. I Kant smoke tobacco inside a building because it brings displeasure to the majority of the group. Covid proved why Kant is wrong. Masks, jabs, and covid passports tried to make all of us conform to stupidity. Covid was an attempt to do away with individual freedoms.
BidenPresident
Verified User
We're done.
The facts hurt.
As one example, I suggest you investigate Buddhism. Basic Buddhist philosopy explains quite well in my opinion how attachment to desire, to passion, to material possession, etc. is form of suffering and slavery.
Stoicism is another example of a philosophy that emphasizes moral freedom
You don't have to agree with it, you could just consider it as a legitimate view of liberation and slavery.
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https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...Religious-Typology-Quiz&p=5503543#post5503543
I've made it a point to learn about the various conceptions of human freedom from a range of world philosophical and religious traditions. I see no harm in opening my mind to the long debate about the nature of liberation.
If you want to believe the epitomy of human freedom is just the absence of contraints on one's actions, that's fine.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Norman Rockwell’s work of the Four Freedoms is classic.
Nice.
FDR was skilled rhetorically, and I suppose his formulation of the four freedoms really resonated within the times he lived in.
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So avoiding the constraints of desire, passion and possession. Fair enough.
What is "moral freedom"?
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Agreed on moral equality, but socialism doesn’t work in a society with limited resources and above the tribal/village level….meaning above a level where citizens can easily participate on politics such as a town hall.
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I honestly don't think you have a definition of Freedom. You have never provided one. And if you look at the dictionary (all dictionaries) you will see that absence of constraints is pretty much the primary definition.
What does the WORD mean to you? Not the philosophical implications, but the WORD ITSELF. What does it mean? It has to have a meaning in order of you to talk about it. What is its meaning?
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Everything is better in context. About 90% of human conflict is based upon a miscommunication and a major part of that is people lacking context.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Correct and, if given the chance, that would be exactly what some people would do. e.g. The Welfare State.
Consider a society with unlimited resources and unlimited energy (e.g. Mr. Fusion and Star Trek replicators). With such tech, mankind would reach for the stars….but back on Earth, there would be those who just sit in their room, play the guitar and smoke pot.
If they are forced to work for their keep, even though it’s not necessary for them to do so, is that robbing them of their freedom? To force an adult to do something for their own good…as determined by committee? Is that freedom or oppression?
I don't think Roseau was right about everything. Obviously, the sentient person should consider multiple perspectives. I think John Locke was probably right that the chance to own property was a key part of freedom's formulation
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