Right Wingers~ Explain Socialism to me

Essence said:
So you're claiming then that every government ever is inherently socialist? From the actual socialists back to the monarchs of old Europe and the tribal elders of the Native Americans? And you believe that the alternative is...what?
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Yes! I do contend that every government ever that attempted to control the means and distribution of goods and services was a socialist government by the degree of socialist authoritarianism they used for that control. Government regulation is socialism by degree. Government’s laws are socialism by degree. Humankind is made up of social/socialist animals.

“The only form of government without a degree of socialism is NO government.”
 
Classic Liberal said:
Yes! I do contend that every government ever that attempted to control the means and distribution of goods and services was a socialist government by the degree of socialist authoritarianism they used for that control. Government regulation is socialism by degree. Government’s laws are socialism by degree. Humankind is made up of social/socialist animals.
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Now, hold on a minute. That's not what you said before. You've gone from "the bigger the government, the more socialist it is" (implying that all governments are socialist to some degree.) to "governments that attempt to control the means and distribution of goods are socialist." Those are two different arguments. Which one do you intend?

Also, I love to see how you've gone from "Essence is wrong because the world really is as simple as I want it to be" to "ILA is right because there actually are different degrees of socialism in the world." Complexity is good when it supports your preconceived notions and bad when it doesn't? Sounds like someone's taken the Hippocritic Oath.


“The only form of government without a degree of socialism is NO government.”
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So you advocate anarchy?
 
Essence said:
Now, hold on a minute. That's not what you said before. You've gone from "the bigger the government, the more socialist it is" (implying that all governments are socialist to some degree.) to "governments that attempt to control the means and distribution of goods are socialist." Those are two different arguments. Which one do you intend?
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What makes them two different arguments? All government is socialist and corrupt by its very nature and the BIGGER the government the BIGGER the socialism and the corruption because socialism is what makes government GROW BIGGER and BIGGER.

Also, I love to see how you've gone from "Essence is wrong because the world really is as simple as I want it to be" to "ILA is right because there actually are different degrees of socialism in the world." Complexity is good when it supports your preconceived notions and bad when it doesn't? Sounds like someone's taken the Hippocritic Oath.
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Except that there’s nothing “complex” about differing degrees of socialism. It’s simply SIMPLE fact. The grand leftist desire to complicate the definition of socialism into an absolute “all or nothing” is the complexity proposition and is absurd and deceitful.




So you advocate anarchy?
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I advocate government within the strict construction confines of the Constitution. I’d only advocate anarchy over unconstitutional socialism.
 
Classic Liberal said:
Except that there’s nothing “complex” about differing degrees of socialism. It’s simply SIMPLE fact. The grand leftist desire to complicate the definition of socialism into an absolute “all or nothing” is the complexity proposition and is absurd and deceitful.
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Wait...the leftist desire? Let's look back a moment:

Classic Liberal said:
Oh sure! ...the economies of yesteryear can be depicted as something other than capitalist or socialist market places if we allow our imaginations to willy-nilly convince us of that, but fact is your hard pressed today to find any of those mysterious old economies still in action and even harder pressed to explain how the American economy doesn’t fit much more accurately into the dictionary definition of socialism rather than capitalism.

“Much more complicated” you say? Only if you choose to ”complicate” the truth to insinuate that the truth is actually fiction.
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I said it a moment ago and I'll say it again: do you have any consistency anywhere in your intellectual life?
 
I Love America said:
A couple of points of clarification?

Do they have to control 100% of the means of production? Or could they control 5% or 10%, or can it be 100%?

Additionally do they have to physically own the means of production, or can "effective" control through regulation and taxation suffice?

The key word you used is control. Production can be controlled in many ways without the government taking full ownership.

In that sense one could argue that Obamas actions regarding GM were in and of themselves socialist. Sure there are those who will claim it was "necessary" to save the economy, but we are talking about definitions here. Obama took over the means of production. He decided what dealerships would remain open and which would close. He decided what brands would get built and would not.

Another example would be the coal industry. Utilizing the power of the EPA, Obama is effectively shitting down the coal industry making it too difficult for the production of cost effective coal.

So without a shadow of a doubt using your definition, Obama is a socialist and by extension those who support him socialists as well
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So now you know what Socialism is......good for you. Because most of you idiots didn't know until I forced the question :good4u:
 
Now when Sean Hannity and Glen Beck talk about Socialism, these unecuated morons will at least have the common sense to say "wait a minute" when Right Wing media talks about it every 5 minutes.

Welcome to Education ILA, CL and..........wait, only 2 of them actually tried to comprehend what Socialism is (and they had to search it lol)
 
Anti-Party said:
Now when Sean Hannity and Glen Beck talk about Socialism, these unecuated morons will at least have the common sense to say "wait a minute" when Right Wing media talks about it every 5 minutes.

Welcome to Education ILA, CL and..........wait, only 2 of them actually tried to comprehend what Socialism is (and they had to search it lol)
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Actually Goober it’s pretty plain to see that you started this thread with every intention of propagating the old leftist absolutist idea that socialism is somehow an “all or nothing” proposition of government ownership of all property, manufacturing and distribution without exception or degree. When we proved otherwise you vanished back under your fucking rock. Now you think you can perpetrate a fucking snow job by crawling back out from under your rock and pretending you caused us to learn something when in reality it was you who got your stinkin ass handed to ya!
 
Anti-Party said:
Holly 79 responses and multi-hundred views later someone actually knows what Socialism is. Though I'm a bit pissed at you because you are not a "Righty". This is a bait thread and an attempt to get "Righties" to actually search what Socialism is, because they don't and they only learn what their cult style media teaches them. Why was a Left Winger the first to answer this when it was DIRECTLY asked for the Right to answer?
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Essence said:
Socialism is a governmental system wherein the government, not private individuals, own the industries. There is no 'private sector' in socialism; there are only divisions of the government. If you want to do engage in X pursuit, you must get the government to hire you onto their existing branch of X pursuit, or convince them to start a new one based on your ideas.

There is absolutely nothing about anything going on in America today that looks even remotely socialist to anyone who knows what socialism is.
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Not even remotely socialist to anyone who knows what socialism is.?

Indirect takeover of healthcare, by gov. regulation of what insurance comp. can offer for sale to public... and the public forced by law and penalty to purchase such insurance with no freedom or choice to not participate one way or the other.....

Maybe its you and AP that don't understand anything other than the absolute ....

I'll bet you're really befuddled in the paint store when presented with 30 different colors all labeled white.....
well, its the same with socialism, capitalism, communism, etc......there are different degrees besides the pure versions.....

Molehills are not mountains, but both are elevations above zero.

And your op was undeniably pure and simple troll....
 
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NOVA said:
Not even remotely socialist to anyone who knows what socialism is.?

Indirect takeover of healthcare, by gov. regulation of what insurance comp. can offer for sale to public... and the public forced by law and penalty to purchase such insurance with no freedom or choice to not participate one way or the other.....
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You're seriously arguing that "they made laws about health care" equates to "the government owns health care". I just want you to stop and think about that for a minute. Socialism is government ownership. Obamacare is private ownership with regulation. So, no. It's not socialism. It doesn't even have aspects of socialism.

You may have an argument about Amtrak or the USPS being "more socialist" in nature, since they're owned by the government -- but both have privately-owned competition, so while the companies in particular may be socialist, the industries that they operate in are simply not.
 
SOCIALISM: a political theory or system in which the means of production and distribution are controlled by the people and operated according to equity and fairness rather than market principles {Encarta English Dictionary)

CAPITALISM: an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and distribution of goods, characterized by a free competitive market and motivation by profit (Encarta English Dictionary)

Which of the preceding definitions defines Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, OSHA, 40 hour work week, National Holidays for workers and all other government social economic laws and programs? If they’re not CAPITALISM what are they? Why are they not SOCIALISM? What else is there aside from capitalism & socialism?

Any further comment about the above, or is Lefty-Land left speechless?
 
Asked and answered. The fact that your greed-addled mind can't process facts that aren't already inside of it doesn't make you any more right. It just makes you more conservative.
 
Classic Liberal said:
Actually Goober it’s pretty plain to see that you started this thread with every intention of propagating the old leftist absolutist idea that socialism is somehow an “all or nothing” proposition of government ownership of all property, manufacturing and distribution without exception or degree. When we proved otherwise you vanished back under your fucking rock. Now you think you can perpetrate a fucking snow job by crawling back out from under your rock and pretending you caused us to learn something when in reality it was you who got your stinkin ass handed to ya!
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I'm simply a Right Winger trying to wake up idiots like you actually. You toss around "SOCIALISM" and "COMMUNISM" and "NAZI'S!" on a daily basis.....Maybe you kids should educate yourself on what those terms actually mean. Acting ignorant and extreme does not win a brainy argument. A smarter brain does. By YOUR consideration I want an "ALL Government" since I asked you what Socialism is. Sounds pretty fuckin stupid to me. It's just a basic question, BASIC. If asking questions makes me a "Lefty" then yeehaw, I'm informed. If attacking anyone raising questions is a "Lefty" then YOU are uninformed.

Yell "NAZI" more and hope for more conversation wins but that isn't how it works. Smart people live in America. And the people who represent the Right Wing have NO BRAIN AT ALL because they are 100% corporate puppets. Maybe I can take a few hours and repeat what the Right Wing politicians have said that is utterly STUPID the last 5 years. But I'm not bored. Watch "The Campaign" movie and tell me it isn't an exact replica of what we see today in politics...

And learn the gravity the Nazi's brought to the world and stop throwing around "Nazi" as a loose term to win arguments. It's ignorance.
 
NOVA said:
Not even remotely socialist to anyone who knows what socialism is.?

Indirect takeover of healthcare, by gov. regulation of what insurance comp. can offer for sale to public... and the public forced by law and penalty to purchase such insurance with no freedom or choice to not participate one way or the other.....

Maybe its you and AP that don't understand anything other than the absolute ....

I'll bet you're really befuddled in the paint store when presented with 30 different colors all labeled white.....
well, its the same with socialism, capitalism, communism, etc......there are different degrees besides the pure versions.....

Molehills are not mountains, but both are elevations above zero.

And your op was undeniably pure and simple troll....
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"Maybe its you and AP that don't understand anything other than the absolute ...."

So Socialism is when the people own all Corporations and we have only 1 possible case of that, and WE are the ones that don't understand the difference between "absolute" and "scared to death idiot that believe everything his pathetic media sells him"

You learned NOTHING.
 
Classic Liberal said:
Yes! I do contend that every government ever that attempted to control the means and distribution of goods and services was a socialist government by the degree of socialist authoritarianism they used for that control. Government regulation is socialism by degree. Government’s laws are socialism by degree. Humankind is made up of social/socialist animals.

“The only form of government without a degree of socialism is NO government.”
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So you copy/pasted what Socialism is off the internet but you didn't absorb the actual definition of it? Later you say that "no government" is the only way to have no Socialism? You are one ignorant fuck.
 
Anti-Party said:
So you copy/pasted what Socialism is off the internet but you didn't absorb the actual definition of it? Later you say that "no government" is the only way to have no Socialism? You are one ignorant fuck.
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Speaking of ignorant and/or non-responsive, have you ever given your own definition? I asked this a day or two after OP and you failed to respond. Ready now?
 
Annie said:
Speaking of ignorant and/or non-responsive, have you ever given your own definition? I asked this a day or two after OP and you failed to respond. Ready now?
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I didn't answer because it was my thread and yours to answer. This isn't ignorance.

I want Right Wingers to answer it because they are tossing it around every day like it's common knowledge. "socialist liberals" and such. The reason I made the thread was to force Right Wingers to actually look up what Socialism is. Not for me to tell them what it is and for them to say "YOu are stupid!"

The reason there was no response for so long was because Right Wingers were looking it up and realizing it has nothing in common with what Fox News says it is. They were probably strong at first and then looked it up and then "Omg, what? This isn't welfare. This isn't America. We have nothing in common with Socialism"

Socialism, like Capitalism CAN have welfare. But welfare HAS NOTHING to do with Socialism. And Socialism just like Capitalism is at it's worse when the Government lets Corporations control pay and commerce. It can be done better without Government Unions have done way more for work than government ever has.
 
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