Should Americans have the right.

Do you think Americans should have the right to opt out?

Krugman was in response to the fear mongering about the social security "crises".

No, you shouldn't be able to opt out of FICA taxes anymore than you should be able to opt out of income taxes.

Want to end FICA taxes? Change the law and abolish SS.

I understand the libertarians hate SS on principle. That's fine. Propose abolishing SS. As for the fear mongering about an impending fiscal collapse of SS, that's coming from the conservatives, republicans and neocons. And we know what they're track record is, on predicting "imminent threats".
 
If Social Security is so widely loved and supported, why do you oppose an opt-out? The only thing an opt-out would do is permit those individuals who think they can invest their money better than the government a way to do so.

It neither damages the solvency of the program nor the social safety net it provides to seniors and workers who wish it. It clearly allows for a greater deal of personal choice; something liberals theoretically support.

Why would you oppose an opt-out if Social Security is widely supported by many? If your assertation is true then it should not damage the solvency of the system for a few people to choose not to pay the cost or reap the benefits of it.
 
NO! Social Security, in the United States, currently refers to the Federal Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) program. Social Security can be saved solely by means testing. By the time you Retire at age 65, most of you will have no house payment, no car payment, no student loans left to pay etc. MOST of you will also have a 401(k) or other retirement pension that you set up through your employer, or yourself. Social security was meant to be an INSURANCE. It was supposed to provide for people who got to age 65, who had worked jobs that had no retirement like service sector jobs in the food industry etc. Now believe it or not it is MOSTLY rich white guys like Forbes that have advocated for Means testing Social Security. Charles Schwab believes in Means Testing. I have heard this idea compared to fire insurance. You MUST have fire insurance for your house but you only get to benefit from it IF YOUR HOUSE BURNS DOWN. Same for Car Insurance and every state government in the US mandates it. You don't get that money back if you drove safely the whole time. My grandfather retired from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission with a pension, he had also invested in the stockmarket and was getting lots of money every month after he retired. His house was paid for and his car had been paid for for decades. He didn't need the Social Security and should not have gotten it. My father won't need it either and knock on wood neither will I. Topspin doesn't need it, Forbes, Jobs and Gates don't need it. I don't know where the cut off should be for those that need it and those that don't, I am a lawyer not an economist. But I do know that there are 10's of thousands of people that don't need it and should not be eligible.

Need rather than universal coverage is usually more troubling and beaurocratic than it's worth.
 
If Social Security is so widely loved and supported, why do you oppose an opt-out? The only thing an opt-out would do is permit those individuals who think they can invest their money better than the government a way to do so.

It neither damages the solvency of the program nor the social safety net it provides to seniors and workers who wish it. It clearly allows for a greater deal of personal choice; something liberals theoretically support.

Why would you oppose an opt-out if Social Security is widely supported by many? If your assertation is true then it should not damage the solvency of the system for a few people to choose not to pay the cost or reap the benefits of it.

Indeed. Why would SS need more people paying in than it aims to support if it was truly self sufficient?

Why shouldn't I have the right to opt out, even if I'm wrong?
 
Technically though, younger people aren't paying for their own SS. They are paying for the current retirees who depend on it, so I don't think anyone should be able to opt out until reform is implemented and those not on the reformed program can be paid off despite the huge dropout rate that would occur...
 
Technically though, younger people aren't paying for their own SS. They are paying for the current retirees who depend on it, so I don't think anyone should be able to opt out until reform is implemented and those not on the reformed program can be paid off despite the huge dropout rate that would occur...

Thus Ponzi.

If its not a Ponzi scheme which its proponents claim its not, then why not let us opt in or out voluntarily?
 
Krugman was in response to the fear mongering about the social security "crises".

No, you shouldn't be able to opt out of FICA taxes anymore than you should be able to opt out of income taxes.

Want to end FICA taxes? Change the law and abolish SS.

I understand the libertarians hate SS on principle. That's fine. Propose abolishing SS. As for the fear mongering about an impending fiscal collapse of SS, that's coming from the conservatives, republicans and neocons. And we know what they're track record is, on predicting "imminent threats".

SS isn't the same as other taxes. Its specifically supposed to be a public pension for me, or whomever pays into it. If it is resilient and secure, then why not let people opt out? You're avoiding the question.

Maybe you can answer this then. Should the law be such that Americns can opt out of Social Security?
 
Krugman was in response to the fear mongering about the social security "crises".

No, you shouldn't be able to opt out of FICA taxes anymore than you should be able to opt out of income taxes.

Want to end FICA taxes? Change the law and abolish SS.

I understand the libertarians hate SS on principle. That's fine. Propose abolishing SS. As for the fear mongering about an impending fiscal collapse of SS, that's coming from the conservatives, republicans and neocons. And we know what they're track record is, on predicting "imminent threats".

Mathematically it should collapse. The only way it can survive is to reduce young workers to slaves and take nearly all their money.
 
SS isn't the same as other taxes. Its specifically supposed to be a public pension for me, or whomever pays into it. If it is resilient and secure, then why not let people opt out? You're avoiding the question.

Maybe you can answer this then. Should the law be such that Americns can opt out of Social Security?

No, because FICA is a dedicated tax to pay benefits to current retirees, in the same was gasoline/highway taxes are a tax to pay for current highway maintainence.

You opt out of highway taxes, there isn't enough money to pay for highway maintainence. You opt out of FICA, there isn't enough money to pay current retirees the benefits they were promised.
 
Indeed. Why would SS need more people paying in than it aims to support if it was truly self sufficient?

Why shouldn't I have the right to opt out, even if I'm wrong?

OK lets say you opt out.

Then you fuck it all up and lose your ass and have no means of support in your old age.

Guess who has to take care of you?
 
"The people who hustled America into a tax cut to eliminate an imaginary budget surplus and a war to eliminate imaginary weapons," Krugman wrote recently, "are now trying another bum's rush."


Damn you gotta love that Krugman.
 
Do you think Americans should have the right to opt out?

sure they should be able to opt out so they can whine for help when they get old.

Just like the finiancial industry whined to get out from under restrictive regualtions preventing them from making money.
Thus we got another junk bond/S&L type of debacle and now they want bailed out.
 
Last edited:
You got it US , there is no real way to "opt out" . The wages that get payed to people figure in SS anyway. You can bet people who Opted Out would end up getting paid less than people who stayed in the system.
 
Unless I am mistaken Regan signed into law the mess allowing the govt to spend the SS surplus as general funds and issue IOU's for the theft.
I believe he was also the one that started figuring SS into the general Budget as it had been a seperate item before.

Please correct me if I am wrong on this.
 
Yeah he was a piece of work. I am dismayed at the idea Bush even makes me long for a R like Reagan.

I wish they would just go back to being the party of Ike.
 
No, because FICA is a dedicated tax to pay benefits to current retirees, in the same was gasoline/highway taxes are a tax to pay for current highway maintainence.

You opt out of highway taxes, there isn't enough money to pay for highway maintainence. You opt out of FICA, there isn't enough money to pay current retirees the benefits they were promised.
FICA was not designed, nor is it described to be, what you are saying here. You pay in to an account, it pays you back.
 
Back
Top