Should Americans have the right.

[Damocles]

Hes not a hack , he knows as well as I do that the Dems are not faultless.

Damo it just that the Rs have wanted it dead for many years and everyone who pays attention knows this. The people who refuse to see this are the 30% republican base who refuse to ever realise America wants to keep the program and loves it.

It is fixable and every time the Dems do something to help fix it the Rs freak out and play dirty.

And this is only one example of irresponsible government. The attempt to assuage guilt from the people who passed the actual spending bills is preposterous.

for over 40 years we have spent more than we make. Even during the projected balanced budget we borrowed money to pay the interest on the debt. We have paid not one dime of principal on any loan of ours for over 40 YEARS. Yet we think these people are responsible enough to make life choices for us.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

And this is only one example of irresponsible government. The attempt to assuage guilt from the people who passed the actual spending bills is preposterous.

for over 40 years we have spent more than we make. Even during the projected balanced budget we borrowed money to pay the interest on the debt. We have paid not one dime of principal on any loan of ours for over 40 YEARS. Yet we think these people are responsible enough to make life choices for us.

Countdown to the "but Clinton had a budget surplus" nonsense... in ten, nine, eight....

 

[uscitizen]

Nope I will jump right back to Regan cooking the books to make his budget appear better than it really was.
ie counting the SS money as general budget money.

 

[Timshel]

This coming from a libertarian, the queens of slippery slopes.

A pension itself is nothing but an "IOU". THis "IOU" is, in fact, guaranteed legally. If you think DEBT is nothing but an "IOU" legally, then, well, yes, SS would be nothing but an IOU.

Huh, SS is not guaranteed legally. What are you talking about?

 

[Damocles]

Nope I will jump right back to Regan cooking the books to make his budget appear better than it really was.
ie counting the SS money as general budget money.

The exact same way that Clinton got his projected "surplus" where we still borrowed money to pay interest on a debt. Such practices are seriously irresponsible, yes from both parties. I have stated so from the beginning.

I hate this irresponsible behavior from those we give the largest responsibility to.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Nope I will jump right back to Regan cooking the books to make his budget appear better than it really was.
ie counting the SS money as general budget money.

1) Reagan... not Regan

2) Dems controlled the House. Not one single piece of legislation could hit Reagans desk without their approval. Not one.

3) Reagan was NOT the first to raid SS to cook the books. Though he certainly joined Carter, Nixon, Ford, Johnson and Kennedy... as did both Bushs and Clinton. Ike was the last fiscally responsible President.

4) Now please tell us how Clinton cooked the books. Or are we to ignore the fact that he did it as well?

 

[uscitizen]

1) Reagan... not Regan

who cares. He could not even spell his own name by the time he left office anyway.

2) Dems controlled the House. Not one single piece of legislation could hit Reagans desk without their approval. Not one.

but did the dems have a 2/3 majority to override Vetos ?

3) Reagan was NOT the first to raid SS to cook the books. Though he certainly joined Carter, Nixon, Ford, Johnson and Kennedy...

Link please.

4) Now please tell us how Clinton cooked the books. Or are we to ignore the fact that he did it as well?

Of course Clowntoon cooked the books as his predecessors had laid out. And it was a Republican congress he was dealing with. Why did the republicans not have a plan to end the "book cooking" ?

 

[Damocles]

The whole veto argument is weak. They vote for the legislation or he could not have signed it. It is so very partisan to attempt to forgive the very people who are responsible for spending bills from any responsibility toward spending bills. Not one piece of spending legislation could make it out of Congress without their votes. There wouldn't even be a bill to veto without their approval to begin with.

 

[uscitizen]

Damo that is the purpoose for Vetoes.
1, To see if congress is really serious about the legislation and will override your veto.
2, To force congress to rewrite the bill in a more acceptable format that the president will sign.

and I had assumed that you knew something about how govt operates.

 

[Battleborne]

You hit the nail on the head........!

I suggest you do the same, become ashamed of yourself. The SS fund was hijaced the day it was incepted. Treasury bonds are IOUs, the only have value because the REPRESENT a debt. They are not money, they are IOUs, and SS is not sustainable. It will create a massive vacuum at some point in my lifetime due to its inability to sustain itself.

The government owes itself a lot of money, yeah, that makes me feel socailly secure.

Spaz.

You don't think you should have the right to opt out?

However..SSA was and is sustainable...it is a very good catch all retirement fund...the problem came about when our elected officials decided to raid and rape the system for other projects that the fund was not intended for...Put a 'Lock Box' on this fund for the future, that was suggested in the past by a few honest representatives...this was ignored and now everyone is crying...!

 

[Damocles]

Damo that is the purpoose for Vetoes.
1, To see if congress is really serious about the legislation and will override your veto.
2, To force congress to rewrite the bill in a more acceptable format that the president will sign.

and I had assumed that you knew something about how govt operates.

The reality is, that in order for Reagan to veto something first it had to pass the House. That they voted in support of those laws gives them responsibility toward them. In every case, every spending bill must come from the same source and it was controlled solely by one party for a very long time. The attempt to cleanse their hands, so to speak, is a weak one. They vote for these bills. Every time. For over 40 years, since 1962 in fact, they have consistently, no matter who was in power, voted to overspend. Even during the supposed "surplus" years they overspent and borrowed money.

The attempt to call one or the other party fiscally responsible has failed miserably, and their irresponsible behavior in every single case while in power tells me that they have no ability to claim resonsibility over something as important to my life as health care.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

1) Reagan... not Regan

who cares. He could not even spell his own name by the time he left office anyway.

2) Dems controlled the House. Not one single piece of legislation could hit Reagans desk without their approval. Not one.

but did the dems have a 2/3 majority to override Vetos ?

3) Reagan was NOT the first to raid SS to cook the books. Though he certainly joined Carter, Nixon, Ford, Johnson and Kennedy...

Link please.

4) Now please tell us how Clinton cooked the books. Or are we to ignore the fact that he did it as well?

Of course Clowntoon cooked the books as his predecessors had laid out. And it was a Republican congress he was dealing with. Why did the republicans not have a plan to end the "book cooking" ?

1) Got it... you wish to excuse your ignorance... understood

2) Does not matter if they had a veto majority or not. They had the majority, which means not one single piece of legislation could have made it to Reagan without the Dems approval. Not one.

3) A link to show they all used the SS funds?

4) So again, you excuse Clinton from doing the exact same shit as Reagan. Why did the Dems not have a plan to end the book cooking? Why did Clinton continue it? He did not have to. He could have vetoed it. I notice now you toss in the fact that Clinton could not have done so without Congress. Yet somehow Reagan could? Bottom line, the whole friggin point is that BOTH parties are responsible for this shit.

 

[uscitizen]

3) A link to show they all used the SS funds?

Yea as general revenue and counted them in the general budget instead of seperately.

 

[Socrtease]

That is quite possibly the best thing you have ever said on this site. IMO.

They did not need to pass the legislation. The extreme fact is they had 100% control over spending regardless of a veto proof majority. We do not hold these irresponsible people to the reality. They are responsible for the legislation that was passed. The President cannot pass any of it.

So then it was NOT the Reagan recovery? It was the democratic congress that passed all that legislation who is responsible for the recovery? I doubt you would concede this but you want to say that it is congress' fault that SS is "in trouble". The truth of the matter is they are BOTH EQUALLY responsible for this.

 

[uscitizen]

Yep

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

So then it was NOT the Reagan recovery? It was the democratic congress that passed all that legislation who is responsible for the recovery? I doubt you would concede this but you want to say that it is congress' fault that SS is "in trouble". The truth of the matter is they are BOTH EQUALLY responsible for this.

I have said numerous times, it cannot be done one without the other. I have stated that BOTH parties have brought us to the mess we are in. Yes, certain Presidents are stronger leaders (Ike) and others are weak (Carter, Bush and Bush). The remainder fall somewhere in between.

But thank you for saying that BOTH parties are equally responsible. If you take a look back, that is exactly what Damo and I have both been saying.

A President cannot create a bill or a budget without Congress and Congress cannot force through a bill or budget without the President (unless they have a rare veto proof majority).

 

[Battleborne]

LMAO................

I have said numerous times, it cannot be done one without the other. I have stated that BOTH parties have brought us to the mess we are in. Yes, certain Presidents are stronger leaders (Ike) and others are weak (Carter, Bush and Bush). The remainder fall somewhere in between.

But thank you for saying that BOTH parties are equally responsible. If you take a look back, that is exactly what Damo and I have both been saying.

A President cannot create a bill or a budget without Congress and Congress cannot force through a bill or budget without the President (unless they have a rare veto proof majority).

right...fact remains that Damo spent way too much time 'under the sea in a yellow submarine' lack of oxygen twisted his outlook on life!

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

right...fact remains that Damo spent way too much time 'under the sea in a yellow submarine' lack of oxygen twisted his outlook on life!

What????

 

[Damocles]

So then it was NOT the Reagan recovery? It was the democratic congress that passed all that legislation who is responsible for the recovery? I doubt you would concede this but you want to say that it is congress' fault that SS is "in trouble". The truth of the matter is they are BOTH EQUALLY responsible for this.

That they supported his finances was my point. What part of this are you having a hard time with? Are they responsible for passing all legislation considering spending? Yes. Did they follow the program put forward by Reagan? Sure they did.

They most certainly had no obligation to do so, and should take responsibility for their votes. The whole, "It was his plan!" crap gives them no escape from the fact of their support and their vote.

You also ignore the very real call for any responsibility for over 40 YEARS, that has nothing to do with SS. SS is just one example of the total disregard of responsibility that we have in our government, the examples are myriad. Not the least of which is the fact of the national debt, how it has grown, and how we have not even one time since 1962 payed even one red cent towards the principal on any of those loans. Not even one penny, including the years of the "projected surplus" during the Clinton Era we STILL BORROWED MONEY TO PAY THE INTEREST ON THOSE LOANS.

Your attempt to slither away from responsibility in the reality of today will solely show your partisan blinders, it will not gain you any credibility. Especially when you attempt to excuse the House controlled in all that time by the very group you attempt to wipe clean of all responsibility.

Whether or not they can "force him to accept it" with a veto proof majority, they can certainly refuse to pass legislation if it is against their ideology or if it irresponsibly takes money away from programs they support.

 

[uscitizen]

Yep both but damo seems to only portray one party as the evil ones. Well until nailed down anyways