Should Two- and Four-Year Degrees Be Free?

SmarterthanYou said:
make them free and they will be
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You have already been told that that's a stupid argument that you're unable to support. You just keep repeating yourself. A full ride scholarship is not worthless. A public high school education is not worthless. Universal health care is not worthless. The absence of a bill for something does not in and of itself make that thing worthless. If you're opposed to "free" postsecondary education, then you're going to need a better reason than "it's worthless".
 
BidenPresident said:
The Biden administration has proposed reforms to ease the student-debt crisis. But a real solution must upend a system of cascading inequities. Restoring the dream of higher education as an equalizer requires a holistic solution that attacks all the sources of the problem: a lack of investment in common goods, growing tuition and student debt and exploitative labor practices that undermine the quality of education.

The rise in tuition costs, combined with the growing economic value of a college degree, fuels the crisis of student debt, which today totals $1.7 trillion. To pay for a year of school, three-quarters of American families pay at least 24 percent of their average family income, even after grants are distributed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/13/opinion/community-college-student-debt-sanders.html
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No, 9-12 should teach a viable trade. Nothing is free. 12 years of free should be enough.
 
Diesel said:
You have already been told that that's a stupid argument that you're unable to support. You just keep repeating yourself. A full ride scholarship is not worthless. A public high school education is not worthless. Universal health care is not worthless. The absence of a bill for something does not in and of itself make that thing worthless. If you're opposed to "free" postsecondary education, then you're going to need a better reason than "it's worthless".
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I can think of several:

1. We already provide 12 years of free, so we are in fact arguing over when should a person be expected to start making their own way in this world and contribute.
2. The old fairness chestnut, I paid why should the next group get it free?
3. People who are given something as opposed to earning it value it less and waste it more. Someone who is putting their own blood sweat and tears into it will be a serious student
4. Shifts costs from those benefitting to those who are not.
5. What will the bankers at Navient do for a living? (joke)
 
Micawber said:
I can think of several:

1. We already provide 12 years of free, so we are in fact arguing over when should a person be expected to start making their own way in this world and contribute.
2. The old fairness chestnut, I paid why should the next group get it free?
3. People who are given something as opposed to earning it value it less and waste it more. Someone who is putting their own blood sweat and tears into it will be a serious student
4. Shifts costs from those benefitting to those who are not.
5. What will the bankers at Navient do for a living? (joke)
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It's a question of whether the social benefits of providing "free" education outweigh or justify the costs. I worked while attending public high schools and also "contributed" to the tax base and my own quality of life at the same time. Parents are also expected to provide for their minor children, so "making one's own way" is not exactly analogous to paying out of pocket for school.

I don't place any value in the chestnut thing. Old people complain about everything. Things change and life isn't fair.

You know as well as I do that many, if not most, of the people who graduate college were not serious students nor did they expend much blood, sweat, and tears. Their parents paid for them to drink for four (or more) years and they showed up for occasional exams.

I don't necessarily support "free" postsecondary education, but it has become obscenely unaffordable. It took me a decade to pay off my undergraduate student loans. I went to a public university and had to delay home ownership longer than any recent generation that came before mine. There is value in education for those who take it seriously, but a bill does not in and of itself make something more serious or valuable than something else.

Edit: Those things said, your reasons are way better than Smarterthanyou's "worthless argument".
 
Diesel said:
You have already been told that that's a stupid argument that you're unable to support. You just keep repeating yourself. A full ride scholarship is not worthless. A public high school education is not worthless. Universal health care is not worthless. The absence of a bill for something does not in and of itself make that thing worthless. If you're opposed to "free" postsecondary education, then you're going to need a better reason than "it's worthless".
Click to expand...

go back and reread what i've posted
 
That isn't what you are asking about, nothing is "free"... what you are asking is should we, as a society, pay for the school of every American all the way through College. I'm sure this debate will sound like the same debate from long ago about educating all the way through High School.
 
College degrees and vocational training should be heavily subsidized and easily affordable to anyone with the interest and commitment to complete a program of study.

500 years of world economic history consistently proves that the path to economic growth is political stability, productivity, public investments in infrastructure, education and human capital.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
go back and reread what i've posted
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Nah, I'll pass. You're trying to draw a distinction that doesn't exist because you know that you don't have a defensible argument. In fact, you haven't even tried to support it. "Free equals worthless because I said so."
 
Nothing is free.

The actual question is, should they be funded with tax revenue?

The answer depends on whether of not we want to be as well educated as nations who do fund education.
 
What people don't understand that those who graduated from State colleges will put the money back into circulation through jobs. It boosts economy and job market.
 
Let me get this right... if a rich family pays for the entire education for their rich kids, their degrees are worthless?

Well boy someone needs to tell that to Bush, Obama and Biden.
 
BidenPresident said:
The Biden administration has proposed reforms to ease the student-debt crisis. But a real solution must upend a system of cascading inequities. Restoring the dream of higher education as an equalizer requires a holistic solution that attacks all the sources of the problem: a lack of investment in common goods, growing tuition and student debt and exploitative labor practices that undermine the quality of education.

The rise in tuition costs, combined with the growing economic value of a college degree, fuels the crisis of student debt, which today totals $1.7 trillion. To pay for a year of school, three-quarters of American families pay at least 24 percent of their average family income, even after grants are distributed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/13/opinion/community-college-student-debt-sanders.html
Click to expand...

Will that include payment to those who have already payed for their education Comrade?
 
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