Size of holes in mask vs size of coronavirus

Evmetro said:
The basic information is already known, just not here on this forum.
Click to expand...

Actually, no. It is amazing how little we still know about viruses. DNA is nice and two dimensional. The proteins that they make are three or four dimensional. They are exponentially harder to figure out.

There are still millions of very educated people around the world trying to figure out the basics of viruses.
 
Evmetro said:
Like countryboy pointed out, this isn't how lefties are looking at Hydroxychloroquine. WTF?
Click to expand...

Hydroxychloroquine is not magic. It might work a bit, or it might not. We are still unsure. It is being tested in every possible combination as quickly as it can be tested.

There has been a long standing problem with testing antivirals. Patients will often suddenly have their immune systems kick in and get better. If a doctor just gave the patient a random drug, the doctor will think it worked. Huge numbers of potential antivirals have mistakenly been thought to be miracle drugs, only to run the statistics and find the drug is useless.

If there is a good regiment for hydroxychloroquine, it will not be great, and it will not be obvious and simple.
 
Walt said:
Actually, no. It is amazing how little we still know about viruses. DNA is nice and two dimensional. The proteins that they make are three or four dimensional. They are exponentially harder to figure out.

There are still millions of very educated people around the world trying to figure out the basics of viruses.
Click to expand...

I'm just referring to the size of coronavirus and the size of the openings in masks. The information is readily available on the internet, but no jpp keyboard scientists have any clue what sizes we are talking about. Even a five year old kid can understand the very basics of filtering stuff. A basic understanding of the size of the material to be filtered and the size of the openings of the filter is essential in knowing how filtration works.
 
Evmetro said:
BTW, yes. Droplets do have nuclei. After the droplet evaporates, the nuclei is still there, floating about the room and ready to be sucked into the openings of your mask. One should at least know the sizes of coronavirus, the openings in their masks, and the size of droplet nuclei.
Click to expand...

A droplet is a cluster of water. It does not need to have anything else, much less a nucleus. When it evaporates, it does not need to leave anything behind. Nuclei is the plural of nucleus. So if droplets did have nuclei, the correct way to say the sentence "After the droplet evaporates, the nuclei is still there", would be "After the droplet evaporates, the nucleus is still there." You are just using nuclei everywhere to try to sound smart.

Viruses do not have nuclei, or most of the rest of the mechanisms of the cell. The best I can figure, you want to use the word virion. That is the virus particle that travels around and then infects a cell.

Masks appear to work best in reducing the viruses going out, rather than the viruses coming in. So lets say an infected person were to sneeze, cough, or even speak, droplets with the virion would come out of the mouth. These droplets are collected by the mask, or even if some get around the mask, do not travel as far due to loss of kinetic energy due to the mask.

The two questions you might want to ask is how good the mask is at stopping the droplets, and can the virion travel far without the droplets? Clearly the masks do stop at least some of the droplets, but no one knows how many, because we do not know how small of droplets the virion can travel on. While the evidence is far from conclusive, it does not seem these virion travel well without droplets.
 
Hole size is only one measure. The path a particle has to take travelling through the mask is another. A labyrinth path will trap many solid particles almost regardless of the size of holes in the material in the mask. So, how many layers the mask has makes a difference too. Second, what the mask is made of is important too. The type(s) of material are important. For example, many better HEPA filters use activated charcoal in them. These will trap organics and kill most live organic particles on contact.

Masks also have a useful life. As you wear it, it starts to get clogged up with 'stuff' being drawn through it. If you wear it too long some of that 'stuff' starts making it through regardless. Thus, you have to periodically get a new mask to replace the current one. For most types the service life is measured in hours. This means you might have to switch to a new mask several times a day for it to remain effective. Wearing the same one for days, even if you wash it, is going to be far less effective than using a new mask each time.
 
Evmetro said:
I'm just referring to the size of coronavirus and the size of the openings in masks. The information is readily available on the internet, but no jpp keyboard scientists have any clue what sizes we are talking about. Even a five year old kid can understand the very basics of filtering stuff. A basic understanding of the size of the material to be filtered and the size of the openings of the filter is essential in knowing how filtration works.
Click to expand...

The mask does not filter the virus, but rather filters the droplets that the virus travels on. Here is a simple experiment: if you sneeze into your hand it gets wet, right? If you are wearing a mask, and sneeze, will your hand get wet? If the answer is no, then the mask is filtering out the droplets.

The next question is what size droplets does the virus travel on? This could make a huge difference in what sort of filter works best. There is still not a good answer to that.

But there is an important point you keep missing. We can know something works, without knowing the basic mechanisms for how it works. Masks work. The question is how they work, and how well do they work?
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Hole size is only one measure. The path a particle has to take travelling through the mask is another. A labyrinth path will trap many solid particles almost regardless of the size of holes in the material in the mask. So, how many layers the mask has makes a difference too. Second, what the mask is made of is important too. The type(s) of material are important. For example, many better HEPA filters use activated charcoal in them. These will trap organics and kill most live organic particles on contact.

Masks also have a useful life. As you wear it, it starts to get clogged up with 'stuff' being drawn through it. If you wear it too long some of that 'stuff' starts making it through regardless. Thus, you have to periodically get a new mask to replace the current one. For most types the service life is measured in hours. This means you might have to switch to a new mask several times a day for it to remain effective. Wearing the same one for days, even if you wash it, is going to be far less effective than using a new mask each time.
Click to expand...

Masks get wet over time, and start growing "stuff". The one thing they will not grow is viruses, because viruses require living cells to grow. But masks will grow bacteria and molds over time. Sooner or later those will start to spread, if we do not use masks correctly.
 
Evmetro said:
BTW, yes. Droplets do have nuclei. After the droplet evaporates, the nuclei is still there, floating about the room and ready to be sucked into the openings of your mask. One should at least know the sizes of coronavirus, the openings in their masks, and the size of droplet nuclei.
Click to expand...

You still haven't defined the problem properly.
What is the viral load needed to contract the disease?
How can a viral load that large be transmitted?
Until you answer those questions you can't reasonably solve the problem.

We don't need to protect from a single virus because the likelihood of that being enough to infect is almost nil. 50% protection is certainly better than no protection. 95% protection is better than 50% protection. You will never find anything that is 100% effective which is what you are demanding. You are on a fool's errand and trying to take everyone along with you. The only real way to transmit viral loads larger than a single virus is through an aerosol. So that means if we block most aerosols we reduce the likelihood of infection.
 
Evmetro said:
Wrong thread, this is the one where we are establishing the size of the openings in masks compared to the size of coronavirus
Click to expand...

Trouble is you have to consider the manner in which the virus gets from one side of a mask to the other.

Masks are of minimal value but meaningless constructs are pointless.
 
Walt said:
A droplet is a cluster of water. It does not need to have anything else, much less a nucleus. When it evaporates, it does not need to leave anything behind. Nuclei is the plural of nucleus. So if droplets did have nuclei, the correct way to say the sentence "After the droplet evaporates, the nuclei is still there", would be "After the droplet evaporates, the nucleus is still there." You are just using nuclei everywhere to try to sound smart.

Viruses do not have nuclei, or most of the rest of the mechanisms of the cell. The best I can figure, you want to use the word virion. That is the virus particle that travels around and then infects a cell.

Masks appear to work best in reducing the viruses going out, rather than the viruses coming in. So lets say an infected person were to sneeze, cough, or even speak, droplets with the virion would come out of the mouth. These droplets are collected by the mask, or even if some get around the mask, do not travel as far due to loss of kinetic energy due to the mask.

The two questions you might want to ask is how good the mask is at stopping the droplets, and can the virion travel far without the droplets? Clearly the masks do stop at least some of the droplets, but no one knows how many, because we do not know how small of droplets the virion can travel on. While the evidence is far from conclusive, it does not seem these virion travel well without droplets.
Click to expand...

You are getting too far ahead, we have not established the basics yet. How big are the openings in a mask, and how big is coronavirus? We can move on to bigger and better things once we establish these two basics. I'm not asking if masks work, if they are good, what kind of mask to use, how masks work, or how how many nuclei pass through a mask. I just want the size if the openings in the mask and the size of coronavirus.
 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
You still haven't defined the problem properly.
What is the viral load needed to contract the disease?
How can a viral load that large be transmitted?
Until you answer those questions you can't reasonably solve the problem.

We don't need to protect from a single virus because the likelihood of that being enough to infect is almost nil. 50% protection is certainly better than no protection. 95% protection is better than 50% protection. You will never find anything that is 100% effective which is what you are demanding. You are on a fool's errand and trying to take everyone along with you. The only real way to transmit viral loads larger than a single virus is through an aerosol. So that means if we block most aerosols we reduce the likelihood of infection.
Click to expand...

You are getting too far ahead, we have not established the basics yet. How big are the openings in a mask, and how big is coronavirus? We can move on to bigger and better things once we establish these two basics. I'm not asking if masks work, if they are good, what kind of mask to use, how masks work, or how how many nuclei pass through a mask. I just want the size if the openings in the mask and the size of coronavirus.
 
Celticguy said:
Trouble is you have to consider the manner in which the virus gets from one side of a mask to the other.

Masks are of minimal value but meaningless constructs are pointless.
Click to expand...

There are plenty of things to consider. This thread is only meant to establish the sizes of holes in masks compared to the size of the size of coronavirus. I am not interested in establishing droplet size or how masks filter in this thread.
 
Evmetro said:
You are getting too far ahead, we have not established the basics yet. How big are the openings in a mask, and how big is coronavirus? We can move on to bigger and better things once we establish these two basics. I'm not asking if masks work, if they are good, what kind of mask to use, how masks work, or how how many nuclei pass through a mask. I just want the size if the openings in the mask and the size of coronavirus.
Click to expand...

You have them cornered Evmetro. Good job!
 
Evmetro said:
You are getting too far ahead, we have not established the basics yet.
Click to expand...

You do not seem to understand how life works. When the polio vaccine came out, there was no way to see the polio virus. According to you, they had gotten too far ahead, and had not established the basics. You would have them wait a few more decades before giving the vaccine. Millions more children would die.

We know masks work, and people are dying now. Therefore, we should use masks to reduce the dying. How well do masks work, is it 50% or 99%? We do not know. How exactly do masks work? We do not know. But we should not kill millions waiting for the exact answers.

Evmetro said:
How big are the openings in a mask, and how big is coronavirus?
Click to expand...

No one cares. The only question is how big are the droplets, and can they get through the mask. The droplets carry the virus, so stop the droplets stop the virus. Actually, that is of secondary concern. The first only thing that matters is whether masks work. Then we can ask the questions about how they work.

Evmetro said:
We can move on to bigger and better things once we establish these two basics.
Click to expand...

Millions of people cannot be killed because you refuse to act on what works until you know how it works. In fact, millions of people cannot be killed because you refuse to act on what works until you know information that has nothing to do with how it works.

Evmetro said:
how how many nuclei pass through a mask.
Click to expand...

Viruses do not have nuclei. Cells have nuclei. If a nuclei moves through a mask without the rest of the cell, it will be dead.
 
Evmetro said:
There are plenty of things to consider. This thread is only meant to establish the sizes of holes in masks compared to the size of the size of coronavirus. I am not interested in establishing droplet size or how masks filter in this thread.
Click to expand...

It is not possible for an isolated cootie to pass through anything.
You misunderstand the job of a mask
 
Celticguy said:
It is not possible for an isolated cootie to pass through anything.
You misunderstand the job of a mask
Click to expand...

I understand the job of a mask, but that is not what I am asking for. I only want to establish the size of coronavirus and compare it to the size of the openings in masks. I am not looking for mask statistics, I don't care how the coronavirus gets trapped by a mask, I don't care if the virus gets through the mask, and I don't care if the virus gets beamed from one person to another's lungs like in Star Trek. I don't care if masks work, and I don't care about droplets. I am not looking for information about how coronavirus travels in droplets before they evaporate, and I am not expressing my opinion about masks. I just want the sizes.
 
Walt said:
You do not seem to understand how life works. When the polio vaccine came out, there was no way to see the polio virus. According to you, they had gotten too far ahead, and had not established the basics. You would have them wait a few more decades before giving the vaccine. Millions more children would die.

We know masks work, and people are dying now. Therefore, we should use masks to reduce the dying. How well do masks work, is it 50% or 99%? We do not know. How exactly do masks work? We do not know. But we should not kill millions waiting for the exact answers.



No one cares. The only question is how big are the droplets, and can they get through the mask. The droplets carry the virus, so stop the droplets stop the virus. Actually, that is of secondary concern. The first only thing that matters is whether masks work. Then we can ask the questions about how they work.



Millions of people cannot be killed because you refuse to act on what works until you know how it works. In fact, millions of people cannot be killed because you refuse to act on what works until you know information that has nothing to do with how it works.



Viruses do not have nuclei. Cells have nuclei. If a nuclei moves through a mask without the rest of the cell, it will be dead.
Click to expand...

I understand the job of a mask, but that is not what I am asking for. I only want to establish the size of coronavirus and compare it to the size of the openings in masks. I am not looking for mask statistics, I don't care how the coronavirus gets trapped by a mask, I don't care if the virus gets through the mask, and I don't care if the virus gets beamed from one person to another's lungs like in Star Trek. I don't care if masks work, and I don't care about droplets. I am not looking for information about how coronavirus travels in droplets before they evaporate, and I am not expressing my opinion about masks. I just want the sizes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top