Slavery, the Prison/Industrial Complex, and American Hypocrisy

While I think that MJ should be legalized and taxed like tobacco, it is not the issue here. Again BAC is claiming that prisoners are slaves. Which is false. No one is forcing anyone to break the law. (Note: if you want the law changed, work to change it) If you break the law and are tried and convicted, you go to jail. Jail costs the taxpayers what? About $30-40k per year per inmate to house/feed??? Let them work and have the prisons re-coup that cost (or at least a good portion of it) if they can. It will save taxpayers the money.

If you don't like the prisoners having to actually contribute anything BAC, then convince them to quit breaking the damn law. If you don't like the law as it currently stands, work to change it. But quit bitching about prisoners being made to work. The Constitution, as you pointed out, clearly allows for prisoners to be forced to work.

I am not going to feel sorry for a prisoner being made to work, especially if the job is teaching him/her a work skill they can use when they get out.

Personally, I think prisoners should be made to work 8 hours a day, study four hours a day and the other 12 are theirs for exercise/sleep/eating etc... Do this Monday-Friday.
 
Last edited:
Superfreak said:
While I think that MJ should be legalized and taxed like tobacco, it is not the issue here. Again BAC is claiming that prisoners are slaves. Which is false. No one is forcing anyone to break the law. (Note: if you want the law changed, work to change it) If you break the law and are tried and convicted, you go to jail. Jail costs the taxpayers what? About $30-40k per year to house/feed??? Let them work and have the prisons re-coup that cost (or at least a good portion of it) if they can. It will save taxpayers the money.

If you don't like the prisoners having to actually contribute anything BAC, then convince them to quit breaking the damn law. If you don't like the law as it currently stands, work to change it. But quit bitching about prisoners being made to work. The Constitution, as you pointed out, clearly allows for prisoners to be forced to work.

I am not going to feel sorry for a prisoner being made to work, especially if the job is teaching him/her a work skill they can use when they get out.

Personally, I think prisoners should be made to work 8 hours a day, study four hours a day and the other 12 are theirs for exercise/sleep/eating etc... Do this Monday-Friday.
Click to expand...

I was pretty sure you wouldn't get it.
 
Superfreak said:
While I think that MJ should be legalized and taxed like tobacco, it is not the issue here. Again BAC is claiming that prisoners are slaves. Which is false. No one is forcing anyone to break the law. (Note: if you want the law changed, work to change it) If you break the law and are tried and convicted, you go to jail. Jail costs the taxpayers what? About $30-40k per year to house/feed??? Let them work and have the prisons re-coup that cost (or at least a good portion of it) if they can. It will save taxpayers the money.

If you don't like the prisoners having to actually contribute anything BAC, then convince them to quit breaking the damn law. If you don't like the law as it currently stands, work to change it. But quit bitching about prisoners being made to work. The Constitution, as you pointed out, clearly allows for prisoners to be forced to work.

I am not going to feel sorry for a prisoner being made to work, especially if the job is teaching him/her a work skill they can use when they get out.

Personally, I think prisoners should be made to work 8 hours a day, study four hours a day and the other 12 are theirs for exercise/sleep/eating etc... Do this Monday-Friday.
Click to expand...


and you don't think that in this, this situation of absolute power, with profit margins of big corporations at stake, abuses are going to be rife? Not to mention that these same corporations would be using their powerful lobbying capabilities against changing the drug laws, because that is now a source of nearly free labor for them?

No, I belive this is disgusting, it alarms me at a most basic level, and I am glad I have been made aware of it. I was ignorant of this.
 
Superfreak said:
and I am pretty sure you are trying to be your usual overly dramatic self.

But please, do tell me where I am wrong on this.
Click to expand...

You know SF, people are allowed to have different moral guidlines than Yourself. And Yourself, is not always right in your world view. I find this morally repugnant and grasp immeidately what this can, and probably already has led to. Don't get on your high horse.
 
Superfreak said:
and I am pretty sure you are trying to be your usual overly dramatic self.

But please, do tell me where I am wrong on this.
Click to expand...

I don't see what's "overly dramatic" about it.

These are well documented and commonly known facts:

The United States has less than 5% of the world’s population, but we incarcerate 25% of all the prisoners in the world. We leave China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, and all the other nations we like to look down our noses at far in the dust. We not only lockup more of our citizens than all totalitarian nations


This is a national embarrassment to enlightened people (aka, liberals and moderates). There's something wrong with our system of justice, if we're clobbering russia, china, and saudi arabia.
 
Darla said:
and you don't think that in this, this situation of absolute power, with profit margins of big corporations at stake, abuses are going to be rife? Not to mention that these same corporations would be using their powerful lobbying capabilities against changing the drug laws, because that is now a source of nearly free labor for them?

No, I belive this is disgusting, it alarms me at a most basic level, and I am glad I have been made aware of it. I was ignorant of this.
Click to expand...

Please, please read what I wrote. I SAID.... as long as the prisons are getting comped back from the corps or government (depending on who is using the prison labor) to cover the expenses of actually housing the prison labor then there is nothing wrong with it. The prisoners in effect would be paying for their prison stay rather than the tax payers.

You are teaching the prisoners a skill set. Something that they can use outside of prison when released.

The whole "corps are evil" argument is BS. Because AGAIN, NO ONE IS FORCING ANYONE TO BREAK THE LAW.

That does not mean the laws should not be changed, it does not mean we shouldn't strive to correct the causes of the disproportionate numbers of black men in prison vs. other races. But the bottom line is the same. These individuals broke a current law. They were sent to prison for it. They should develop work skills and educate themselves so that when they are released they will have options.

This isn't about race, no matter how much BAC wants to try to make it appear that way. White prisoners are working just as blacks and hispanics and anyone else convicted of a crime is doing.
 
Cypress said:
I don't see what's "overly dramatic" about it.

These are well documented and commonly known facts:

The United States has less than 5% of the world’s population, but we incarcerate 25% of all the prisoners in the world. We leave China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, and all the other nations we like to look down our noses at far in the dust. We not only lockup more of our citizens than all totalitarian nations


This is a national embarrassment to enlightened people (aka, liberals and moderates). There's something wrong with our system of justice, if we're clobbering russia, china, and saudi arabia.
Click to expand...

And cypress, think about what big business is spending to lobby for open immigration laws. And you know how torn I am about that, I'm not completely against them, but I hate to see them used for exploitative reasons, and also, there is a problem with depressed wages. But, putting that debate aside, big business is lobbying for that because it's cheap labor.

So, what will they do for almost free labor? Would they not work to keep these draconian drug laws and 3 strike laws, on the books so that their supply of free labor is not threatened? Doesn't that sound like a hell to you? I mean, that's a serious problem there. That upsets me to the core. I don't want to hear bullshit about "learning a trade" or "personal responsibility" when we are talking about putting young men and women in jail for 25 to life, 25 TO LIFE, to be labor horses for big business. And why? Because they smoke pot? No.

No.
 
These individuals broke a current law. They were sent to prison for it. They should develop work skills and educate themselves so that when they are released they will have options.

This isn't about race, no matter how much BAC wants to try to make it appear that way.

Its totally about race.

"Breaking a law", isn't the proper measure of who's in jail and who's not.

Its prosecutions and convictions that are the proper measure. I'm quite sure that whites use illegal drugs at approximately the same rates as blacks, but blacks face a much higher prosecution and conviction rate. Why? Because they get arrested more often, and are more likely to be found guilty by a jury.
 
Darla said:
You know SF, people are allowed to have different moral guidlines than Yourself. And Yourself, is not always right in your world view. I find this morally repugnant and grasp immeidately what this can, and probably already has led to. Don't get on your high horse.
Click to expand...

I fully understand that Darla. Please explain to me what you find morally repugnant, because I do not understand.

1) I break the law
2) I am convicted of doing so and sent to prison
3) I work for company "x" and learn a skill set
4) Company "x" pays the prison for my labor
5) Prison uses the wages to pay for the expense of keeping me in prison for the crime I committed
 
Superfreak said:
Please, please read what I wrote. I SAID.... as long as the prisons are getting comped back from the corps or government (depending on who is using the prison labor) to cover the expenses of actually housing the prison labor then there is nothing wrong with it. The prisoners in effect would be paying for their prison stay rather than the tax payers.

You are teaching the prisoners a skill set. Something that they can use outside of prison when released.

The whole "corps are evil" argument is BS. Because AGAIN, NO ONE IS FORCING ANYONE TO BREAK THE LAW.

That does not mean the laws should not be changed, it does not mean we shouldn't strive to correct the causes of the disproportionate numbers of black men in prison vs. other races. But the bottom line is the same. These individuals broke a current law. They were sent to prison for it. They should develop work skills and educate themselves so that when they are released they will have options.

This isn't about race, no matter how much BAC wants to try to make it appear that way. White prisoners are working just as blacks and hispanics and anyone else convicted of a crime is doing.
Click to expand...


It is about race when white business men like you, can snort coke right in their financial offices, and I have seen this, out of hundrend dollar bills, and some black kid gets 30 years because he got popped three times with pot on him. that's about race.

And big corporations are not evil, nor are they good. They exist soley to make money. There is no heart, there is no morality. There is no emotion. There is no intent to do harm. There is simply, move forward and earn the largest possible profit.

And that can result in much evil.
 
blackascoal said:
Slavery, the Prison/Industrial Complex, and American Hypocrisy

August 20, 2007

The United States has less than 5% of the world’s population, but we incarcerate 25% of all the prisoners in the world. We leave China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, and all the other nations we like to look down our noses at far in the dust. We not only lockup more of our citizens than all totalitarian nations, we even lockup more people than China which has more than 4 times the number of Americans, and India which has almost 4 times the number of Americans, and Iran COMBINED. The US not only leads in the numbers of prisoners but far outpace China when measured per capita. We rank 1st among all nations with 715 prisoners per 100,000 people. China ranks 71st with 119 prisoners per 100,000 people.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_pri-crime-prisoners
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_pri_per_cap-crime-prisoners-per-capita

US leaders love to point out China as a violator of human rights and their penchant for slave and prison labor. While it’s principled to point out abuses by the Chinese, Americans should also recognize that slavery is not only legal in the US, it’s also practiced. The 13th Amendment authorizes it, “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.” The key word here is “except” and being convicted of a crime in the United States is that exception.

In today’s America, drug laws have become the new Jim Crow laws, the prison/industrial complex has become the new plantation, and the warden has become the new overseer. America’s newest slaves aren’t picking cotton. They’re assembling computers, making women’s lingerie, booking airline flights over the phone, telemarketing for major corporations, and doing all kinds of tasks that free Americans used to be employed at doing. What appeared to be a normal plant closing by U.S. Technologies when it sold its electronics plant in Austin, was actually the company relocating its operations to a nearby Austin prison. One hundred and fifty “free” employees lost their jobs to the new slaves.

If you book a flight on TWA over the phone, a prisoner may be taking your order. If you buy yourself or your loved one something from Victoria Secret, it may have come from a prison in South Carolina. Corporations like Chevron, Boeing, IBM, Motorola, Honda, Toys R Us, Compaq, Dell, Texas Instruments, Honeywell, Hewett-Packard, Microsoft, Nordstrom’s, Revlon, Macy's, Pierre Cardin, Target Stores, and AT&T are a few of the ever-growing list of companies that are, or have at one time, used this kind of slave labor. Federal prisons operate under the trade name Unicor and use their prisoners to make everything from lawn furniture to congressional desks. Federal safety and health standards do not protect prison labor, nor do the National Labor Relations Board policies nor does the minimum wage apply. Corporations that use slave labor don’t pay overtime, sick days, pensions, and don’t have to deal with unions for this work. Prison/slaves are paid about 25 cents an hour.

Who are these new slaves?

The vast majority of illegal drug users, importers, and distributors in America are white. Whites make up 72% of illegal drug users, but, the greatest percentage of those who are incarcerated for drugs are black. While whites are getting probation, blacks and Hispanics are being sentenced to prison, sometimes for the exact same crime whites got probation for. Disparities in sentencing is well-known and documented and can be confirmed by the Department of Justice, DEA, FBI, Human Rights Watch, the Sentencing Project, Amnesty International, and a host of academic and social organization studies and research. The injustice of the Justice System is devastating communities and families all across America.

African-Americans have been cast as the icon for illegal drug use in America even though they comprise between 12% – 14% of illegal drug users, about proportional to their percentage of the population. The “war on drugs” appears to be a war on African-Americans.

It appears that the new slaves look a lot like the old ones.

African-Americans are the most loyal constituency the Democratic Party has by far, but the Democratic Party will not adequately address this critical issue for fear of being seen as “soft on crime.” Thus, the Democratic Party itself perpetuates the stereotype. The biggest explosion of Americans going to prison happened under Bill Clinton. Under Clinton, more people went to federal and state prisons than under any president in American history. Clinton also signed a bill that prevented U.S. Sentencing Commission amendments to equalize the penalties for crack and powder cocaine from taking effect.

The disparities in sentencing and probation are well-known and were certainly known to Bill Clinton. Then Attorney General Janet Reno said the sentencing disparity is unfair. "Clearly I think [penalties] should be equalized with respect to possession offenses," she said. "And equally clearly, I don't think the 100-to-1 ratio is fair." She also said that people who provide powder cocaine to those who cook it into crack should get "the more appropriately stiff sentence than the person who distributes the crack.” Under Clinton, the federal 3 strikes law was enacted and many states soon followed with similar legislation of their own.

Eighty-five percent of those sentenced under the “three strikes you’re out” law in California faced prison for a nonviolent offense. The law requires a mandatory 25 years to life sentence. Two years after the law went into effect, there were twice as many people imprisoned under the three-strikes law for possession of marijuana as for murder, rape and kidnapping combined. More than 80 percent of those sentenced under the “three strikes” law are African-American and Latino. It was supposed to be meant to protect society from violent and dangerous criminals, but is fueling the prison/industrial complex with those caught for non-violent crimes. Up to 75% of American prisoners are locked-up for non-violent crimes.

Here In Georgia, it was the democratic candidate for Governor in the last election, Mark Taylor, who used his capacity as then Lt. Governor to sponsor SB 400, a draconian piece of legislation from the dark ages that treats children as adults in criminal courts. Children convicted under this law usually serve their time in adult prisons and SB 440 allows children to be sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Ninety percent (90%) of children sentenced under SB 440 and its companion legislation, SB 441, are African American. I'm sure he was real shocked when blacks did not go to the polls to support his run for Governor. After all, he's a democrat.

During the past two decades roughly a thousand new prisons and jails have been built in the United States. Nevertheless, America's prisons are more overcrowded now than when the building spree began, and the inmate population continues to increase by 50,000 to 80,000 people a year In 1977 the inmate population of California was 19,600. Today it’s over 170,000, which amounts to more inmates in its jails and prisons than do France, Great Britain, Germany, Japan, Singapore, and the Netherlands combined. After spending $5.2 billion on prison construction over the past fifteen years, California now has not only the largest but also the most overcrowded prison system in the United States, and for the first time among large states, California will spend more on its prisons than on its public universities.

Profiting from slavery

Prisons are rising all over America. It’s a fast rising growth industry with investors on Wall Street and corporations we all know are paying peanuts to prisoner/slaves so they don’t have to employ those who buy their products. Even when crime goes down, jail population still goes up. Prison labor has its roots in slavery. After the Civil War ended, blacks were imprisoned on a variety of trumped up reasons and were then loaned or hired out to plantations and farms and all would share in the profit, except the prisoner/slave of course. That same “hiring out” of prisoners is still practiced in the United States today.

The prison/industrial complex is a multi-billion dollar industry complete with lobbyists, trade shows, and conventions. It profits from an evil in the US that neither democrats nor republicans will seek to remedy.

Money is the hole in the concept of democracy. Inject enough money into the system and that system will morph into a plutocracy, such as exists in America today. The corporate will has replaced the will and conscience of the people. Democrats, even more than republicans, have abdicated their responsibility to their most loyal constituency.

As I was growing up and learning the history of slavery in America, I used to wonder how slavery could exist here for more than 250 years. How was that possible? Where were the good people? The answer to that is obvious in America today. The good people simply do nothing. They pretend the evil doesn’t exist. Slavery exists today in America, and again, the good people do nothing.
Click to expand...

the thing is how many of the people that we put in prision, would just be exicuted or mamed instead of a prision setance in the countrys that they name in this artical ?
 
Darla said:
It is about race when white business men like you, can snort coke right in their financial offices, and I have seen this, out of hundrend dollar bills, and some black kid gets 30 years because he got popped three times with pot on him. that's about race.

And big corporations are not evil, nor are they good. They exist soley to make money. There is no heart, there is no morality. There is no emotion. There is no intent to do harm. There is simply, move forward and earn the largest possible profit.

And that can result in much evil.
Click to expand...
Which is why he advocates changing the laws so that it wouldn't be about race.
 
bob said:
the thing is how many of the people that we put in prision, would just be exicuted or mamed instead of a prision setance in the countrys that they name in this artical ?
Click to expand...
I noticed most of the ones with zero prisoners were Muslim nations. What kind of punishment do they receive instead of prison? That is a valid question.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top