Slavery, the Prison/Industrial Complex, and American Hypocrisy

1) I break the law
2) I am convicted of doing so and sent to prison
3) I work for company "x" and learn a skill set
4) Company "x" pays the prison for my labor
5) Prison uses the wages to pay for the expense of keeping me in prison for the crime I committed

Explain to me oh great BAC... how is the above "slavery"???


Company "x" pays the prison for my labor


Private corporations or companies should not be allowed to use slave-wage prisoners. This isn't China or North Korea, you dork. Is that what you want?

Its not even a free market thing, to allow corporations to use slave-wage labor. Don't you worship the unfettered free market?

There are plenty of public service jobs prisoners could do, that aren't related to contributing to the bottom line of a corporation.
 
yes, but trying to spin the issue isn't going to get people to listen. Try telling them the WHOLE story and perhaps they will join you in trying to solve the problem.

Because again you ignore the point Bob made earlier. Many of those other countries simply execute criminals or they maim them and send them back out into the population. A different kind of Justice.

And again... show me how American prisoners are "slaves"?

You keep spouting off about it, but refuse to address my points at all. You are not going to win to many people to your cause if you refuse to actually debate the issue.

I don't intend to win assholes to my side .. but in regards to getting sane people to take notice, again, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I've been getting people to take notice of particular issues for a long time .. including those in Congress .. where I worked.

Don't need your idiot advice.
 
Blackascoal, most agree with you about the ridiculousness of the drug war imprisonments, but your assertion that we're "the worst in the world" is just ridiculous. In a free society, people have a lot of freedom, even to commit crimes. Totalitarian societies are like prisons already and don't need official prisons. Everyone is presumed guilty and treated as such preemptively.
 
I don't intend to win assholes to my side .. but in regards to getting sane people to take notice, again, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I've been getting people to take notice of particular issues for a long time .. including those in Congress .. where I worked.

Don't need your idiot advice.


An asshole on your side would require a pamper vest.
 
OR .. you can walk your ass to the edge of a cliff and jump off.

The good news is that sane people get the point .. which is all I ask.

Translation: You have nothing. You cannot address the points because it would require you to actually THINK while formulating a response.

Not quite as simple as running around dropping the race card everywhere you go.... is it?
 
Blackascoal, most agree with you about the ridiculousness of the drug war imprisonments, but your assertion that we're "the worst in the world" is just ridiculous. In a free society, people have a lot of freedom, even to commit crimes. Totalitarian societies are like prisons already and don't need official prisons. Everyone is presumed guilty and treated as such preemptively.

If that makes you feel better about the Land of the Free having 5% of the world's population and 25% of all its prisoners, then be pleased.
 
I don't intend to win assholes to my side .. but in regards to getting sane people to take notice, again, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I've been getting people to take notice of particular issues for a long time .. including those in Congress .. where I worked.

Don't need your idiot advice.

Let me guess... you worked for Cynthia McKinney?
 
Translation: You have nothing. You cannot address the points because it would require you to actually THINK while formulating a response.

Not quite as simple as running around dropping the race card everywhere you go.... is it?

Translation: You are asshole whom I don't really care what you think. It's that simple.

When sane people ask the exact same questions you have, I'm more than happy to respond. It's not like any of this is a secret and there isn't plenty of supporting information.

When I question anyone's statistics .. I do the research myself. Saves time on a lot of needless bullshit, like talking to you. I assume you know how to use a search engine. The serious mind would start with something like "prison/industrial complex", maybe move to "corporations using prison labor" and a variety of other intelligent keys to doing adult-like research.

Instead you spend your time here whining like a sissy about the posts of others.
 
Translation: You are asshole whom I don't really care what you think. It's that simple.

When sane people ask the exact same questions you have, I'm more than happy to respond. It's not like any of this is a secret and there isn't plenty of supporting information.

When I question anyone's statistics .. I do the research myself. Saves time on a lot of needless bullshit, like talking to you. I assume you know how to use a search engine. The serious mind would start with something like "prison/industrial complex", maybe move to "corporations using prison labor" and a variety of other intelligent keys to doing adult-like research.

Instead you spend your time here whining like a sissy about the posts of others.
Where does your original source get their information? It is almost twice those reported by the DOJ.
 
Translation: You are asshole whom I don't really care what you think. It's that simple.

When sane people ask the exact same questions you have, I'm more than happy to respond. It's not like any of this is a secret and there isn't plenty of supporting information.

When I question anyone's statistics .. I do the research myself. Saves time on a lot of needless bullshit, like talking to you. I assume you know how to use a search engine. The serious mind would start with something like "prison/industrial complex", maybe move to "corporations using prison labor" and a variety of other intelligent keys to doing adult-like research.

Instead you spend your time here whining like a sissy about the posts of others.

Well now, don't you just have your panties all up in a bunch. There are no "statistics" involved with my question.

1) I break the law
2) I am convicted of doing so and sent to prison
3) I work for company "x" and learn a skill set
4) Company "x" pays the prison for my labor
5) Prison uses the wages to pay for the expense of keeping me in prison for the crime I committed

Explain to me oh great BAC... how is the above "slavery"???


See.... no stats... just your complete inability to respond to the above... because you know you are full of shit.
 
If that makes you feel better about the Land of the Free having 5% of the world's population and 25% of all its prisoners, then be pleased.


You're a simplistic moron. I'm saying that in other countries "free" men live more like prisoners than here, but you refuse to see that. Their very concept of freedoms is corrupted. You only have your america bashing myopic idiocy going for you.
 
You can also find those statisics at The Sentencing Project
http://www.sentencingproject.org/StatsByState.aspx

CENTER ON JUVENILE AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE
http://www.cjcj.org/pubs/one_million/onemillion.html

Human Rights Watch
http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/incarceration/

BBC News - The World's Biggets Prison System
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4858580.stm

Prison Policy Initiative
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/prisonindex/prisoners.html

PBS
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/322/americas-prisons.html

Amnesty International
http://www.amnesty.org/

And a plethora of other sources including academic and social studies
 
You can also find those statisics at The Sentencing Project
http://www.sentencingproject.org/StatsByState.aspx

CENTER ON JUVENILE AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE
http://www.cjcj.org/pubs/one_million/onemillion.html

Human Rights Watch
http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/incarceration/

BBC News - The World's Biggets Prison System
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4858580.stm

Prison Policy Initiative
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/prisonindex/prisoners.html

PBS
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/322/americas-prisons.html

Amnesty International
http://www.amnesty.org/

And a plethora of other sources including academic and social studies
Yes, but the fact remains I ask where they get them if not from the DOJ? When I research and go to the source of the information I find those stats to be overstated.

I provided my links.

Giving me more people that don't have the access to the jails that the DOJ does or the census data of the prisons and jails doesn't tell me where they get the numbers. It only promotes their own agendas without regard to the data being seriously out of touch with the data reported by the very group they are supposedly supposed to be 'helping' and that they say they are reporting from.
 

There are plenty of public service jobs prisoners could do, that aren't related to contributing to the bottom line of a corporation.


Agreed. I'm not opposed to allowing inmates to work for $ but I think having them work for the government is a much better solution to the issue at hand.
 
yes, but trying to spin the issue isn't going to get people to listen. Try telling them the WHOLE story and perhaps they will join you in trying to solve the problem.

Because again you ignore the point Bob made earlier. Many of those other countries simply execute criminals or they maim them and send them back out into the population. A different kind of Justice.

And again... show me how American prisoners are "slaves"?

You keep spouting off about it, but refuse to address my points at all. You are not going to win to many people to your cause if you refuse to actually debate the issue.

How can you say that they are not slaves? If they are put in jail for long prison terms for the same crime you or I would get probation, or a much shorter sentence for, and then used for labor and paid a nominal fee of 25 cents per hour to probably get around some regulation, what are they? It is wrong. How can anyone not see that this is morally wrong to begin with, and made worse by creating a situation where it benefits a power structure to toughen sentencing guidlines, keep pot illegal, and pass laws like the three strike one?
 
1) I break the law
2) I am convicted of doing so and sent to prison
3) I work for company "x" and learn a skill set
4) Company "x" pays the prison for my labor
5) Prison uses the wages to pay for the expense of keeping me in prison for the crime I committed

Explain to me oh great BAC... how is the above "slavery"???

What skill set are you learning? Were slaves learning a skill set when they picked cotton? If you never get off the plantation, or never get out of prison, when are you going to put this "skill set" to use? Could it be you never will except to benefit the plantation owner, and in this case, the corporation?
 
You can also find those statisics at The Sentencing Project
http://www.sentencingproject.org/StatsByState.aspx

CENTER ON JUVENILE AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE
http://www.cjcj.org/pubs/one_million/onemillion.html

Human Rights Watch
http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/incarceration/

BBC News - The World's Biggets Prison System
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4858580.stm

Prison Policy Initiative
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/prisonindex/prisoners.html

PBS
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/322/americas-prisons.html

Amnesty International
http://www.amnesty.org/

And a plethora of other sources including academic and social studies


Your first link gives the numbers that I figured mathematically:

1.5 million
Number of inmates held in state and federal prisons at yearend 2005.

using that number, there are only 488 per 100K in Prison in the US, yet your originating link gives the number at 715. This is nearly double the number, WHERE DO THEY GET THEIR NUMBERS?

It appears to me your link of origination of the thread exaggerates their numbers.

Your second link gives this number:

March 15, 1999 show that the number of prisoners in America has more than tripled over the last two decades from 500,000 to 1.8 million

But no sourcing as to where it came from. The justice department data did not show that there were 1.8 million in prison or jail in 1999, in fact there were less than there are currently in jail at that time.

(Again, I provided links to that data from the DOJ itself above.)

Your third link:

According to the latest statistics from the U.S. Department of Justice, more than two million men and women are now behind bars in the United States.1 The country that holds itself out as the "land of freedom" incarcerates a higher percentage of its people than any other country. The human costs — wasted lives, wrecked families, troubled children — are incalculable, as are the adverse social, economic and political consequences of weakened communities, diminished opportunities for economic mobility, and extensive disenfranchisement.

(Again the data is severely exaggerated, I provided the link to the DOJ address above, and again, the first one is accurate, these are exaggerated.)
 
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