So, where are we with herd immunity?

Walt said:
Here is a hint, coming up with reasons that reality is not reality does not change reality.

Millions of people are getting Covid-19 twice. Outbreaks are happening in the same population time after time. Clearly immunity is not lasting very long.

While the shortness of Covid-19 immunity is unusual, having immunity fade over time is not unusual. Claiming it is impossible is just silly.
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Study in Primates Finds Acquired Immunity Prevents COVID-19 Reinfections
https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/...ired-immunity-prevents-covid-19-reinfections/


https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/can-you-get-coronavirus-twice#immunity
Specialized immune cells, called B-lymphocytes or B-cells, identify proteins called antigens on the surface of invading cells.
When a B cell detects a new antigen, it causes the production of proteins, called antibodies, that bind to antigens.

Once an antibody locks onto an antigen, it attracts other cells that destroy the target.
When B cells produce a new antibody, they can continue making the same antibody if the same antigen appears in the future. This is called adaptive immunity.
 
Walt said:
Asymptomatic just means there are no symptoms noticeable. Damage is quite a different thing. One can have damage without noticing it. Many diseases do a lot of damages before any symptoms exist.
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ridiculous. you never cite your bullshit. you are mouthing off unsupported garbage
Symptomatic responses to infections can be measured with blood tests as well (elevated white cells)

There is no organ damage without symptomology.
You are saying a positive PCR test only (no symptoms) results in bodily damage..
that's crap
 
dukkha said:
Study in Primates Finds Acquired Immunity Prevents COVID-19 Reinfections
https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/...ired-immunity-prevents-covid-19-reinfections/


https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/can-you-get-coronavirus-twice#immunity
Specialized immune cells, called B-lymphocytes or B-cells, identify proteins called antigens on the surface of invading cells.
When a B cell detects a new antigen, it causes the production of proteins, called antibodies, that bind to antigens.

Once an antibody locks onto an antigen, it attracts other cells that destroy the target.
When B cells produce a new antibody, they can continue making the same antibody if the same antigen appears in the future. This is called adaptive immunity.
Click to expand...

Did you notice the "at least in the short term" line in that article?

And it is noted that you keep ignoring the "how long does it last" question.

Natural immunity won't get us anywhere unless someone can answer that one.
 
Walt said:
It is a novel virus, so no one knows for sure what it will bring. We are learning.

What we do know is what it has already brought. We can look at countries like Brazil which are further along the road to natural immunity and see whether we will hit it any time soon. The answers are not encouraging.

You, Fauci, and I all thought a year and a half ago that we would hit herd immunity by now. You were sure, and the rest of us thought it was probable. As it turns out we were all wrong. You are the one who refuse to admit it.
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Because the vaccines leak so much transmission explains why the CDC estimate of ~80% immunity in the population isn’t showing a decrease in cases.

Apparently you don’t like that explanation.
 
Jarod said:
If you understood the very little bit of basics regarding this, you would see that the holdouts on the vaccine are giving the virus the opportunity to mutate before it can be destroyed.

Fachi said it was not over, and he was correct.
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That’s a talking point. Or maybe you can surprise me with a study that backs it.
 
BartenderElite said:
Did you notice the "at least in the short term" line in that article?

And it is noted that you keep ignoring the "how long does it last" question.

Natural immunity won't get us anywhere unless someone can answer that one.
Click to expand...

Give an answer about long term adverse reactions to the vaccines and then we’ll discuss how long natural immunity lasts. And why does it seem like the Vax fanatics have a problem with natural immunity?
 
Walt said:
The "booster" for natural immunity is getting Covid-19 again. Each time you get Covid-19, it damages the body more, and makes it easier to get Covid-19 another time. This damage is so far cumulative, though we can not be sure beyond two times.
Click to expand...

The booster is being exposed to it again, just like a vaccine.
 
Walt said:
If there is a natural solution to the pandemic, we can ignore it all we want, and it will still be fixed. If the flood waters stop rising, you can ignore that, and you still will not get flooded.

The problem is there is not a natural solution in the immediate future. So we need to come up with a man made solution. You may call that "ignoring" the natural solution, but normal people call that saving lives.
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I'm not ignoring the man-made (vaccine) solution or the natural solution. You seem to think that the man-made solution is the only way. I'm following the science and going with both.
 
Darth Omar said:
Give an answer about long term adverse reactions to the vaccines and then we’ll discuss how long natural immunity lasts. And why does it seem like the Vax fanatics have a problem with natural immunity?
Click to expand...

Again: if everyone got the vaccine tomorrow, we'd be done w/ COVID this month (on a practical level). Imagine that. No more mask debates, and a boon for the economy.

When will we get to herd immunity if we keep the current rate of vaccinations, and the rest is natural immunity? You don't have to be exact - it can be ballpark.

EDIT: and right now, we have no evidence that there is long-term adverse reaction to the vaccine. As opposed to COVID, which you would prefer people get again & again & again. We know w/ COVID that there are long haulers and adverse reactions people may have to live w/ for the rest of their lives.
 
After this entire thread, the only conclusion that anyone can really draw is that people oppose vaccines purely for political reasons. There is no logic or science for that position, unless one is on the side of COVID & keeping it going indefinitely.
 
BartenderElite said:
Why do you keep citing Fauci? All of a sudden he's a medical guru for you?

Have you checked the CDC site? They estimate that natural immunity is at its peak for only 5 months, and lasts less than a year overall.

But let's just say for the sake of argument that it lasts a lifetime (it doesn't).

1) How long would it take to achieve herd immunity if every American got vaccinated tomorrow?
2) How long would it take to achieve herd immunity if we waited for everyone who hasn't been vaccinated to get COVID?
Click to expand...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1437532346098536451
 
BartenderElite said:
After this entire thread, the only conclusion that anyone can really draw is that people oppose vaccines purely for political reasons. There is no logic or science for that position, unless one is on the side of COVID & keeping it going indefinitely.
Click to expand...

Just the opposite.

The vax fanatics are doing somersaults in trying to ignore acquired immunity. And it’s weird. Not a single person here is anti Trump vax. We’re arguing against the ‘vax or nothing’ approach and against the idea that natural immunity should just be ignored.

Do you guys own stock in Pfizer or something? I don’t get it.
 
Darth Omar said:
Just the opposite.

The vax fanatics are doing somersaults in trying to ignore acquired immunity. And it’s weird. Not a single person here is anti Trump vax. We’re arguing against the ‘vax or nothing’ approach and against the idea that natural immunity should just be ignored.

Do you guys own stock in Pfizer or something? I don’t get it.
Click to expand...

They do not get it either. Just sheep being led by the nose to slaughter.
 
Darth Omar said:
Just the opposite.

The vax fanatics are doing somersaults in trying to ignore acquired immunity. And it’s weird. Not a single person here is anti Trump vax. We’re arguing against the ‘vax or nothing’ approach and against the idea that natural immunity should just be ignored.

Do you guys own stock in Pfizer or something? I don’t get it.
Click to expand...

Again - if everyone got vaxxed tomorrow, COVID would be done this month.

If, on the other hand, we rely more on natural immunity: can you give an estimate for when we might achieve herd immunity?

I've probably asked a dozen or so times on this thread. It can be ballpark.
 
BartenderElite said:
Man, are you all in on that Fauci quote.

Fauci doesn't - or didn't - but the CDC does. But do your usual "filter out all other factual information" thing to support the agenda.
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Ok, so you concede that the CDC and Fauci aren’t on the same page, again.

So what studies are the CDC using to back their statement on natural immunity. Or are they making it up as they go?
 
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