Lightbringer
Loves Me Some Souls
No, you're thinking of mercantilism welsh sheepfucker.
Socialism Vs Capitalism
- Thread starter TexanManWithPlans
- Start date
No, you're thinking of mercantilism welsh sheepfucker.
When I click on the image in this post, I get message, "Bubba, you do not have permission to access this page."
Iolo/Penderyn
Verified User
Bye Bye, arsebandit. You nazis are fucked, kiddo.
serenity
Verified User
Socialism is common ideology, capitalism is common currency within humanity's many interpretations of life being larger than life mutually evolving reproductions so far.
This is a pholosophy and definition argument. Socialism and Capitalism do not exist. All industrial countries are a mix. Socialism is an incorrect label put on countries that spend a large share of their wealth and taxes taking care of the citizens. Capitalism is trickling the money up to the top 1 percent, Our wealth gap is worse than the Gilded age and the Repubs make it worse every time they are in office.
People in Scandanavian countries go to work in companies just like we do. The difference is their taxes are spent on universal healthcare and public education.
We cut taxes for the wealthy and corporations over and over.
People in Scandanavian countries go to work in companies just like we do. The difference is their taxes are spent on universal healthcare and public education.
We cut taxes for the wealthy and corporations over and over.
Yakuda
Verified User
Your description of capitalism is the result of some closed head trauma you obviously suffered. you clearly have no fucking idea what you are talking about.
I am going to ask you what I have asked all the other dumbass leftist pig fuckers but still haven't gotten an answer, are you prepared to tell your leftist base that they will have to actually pay federal income tax as well as a consumption tax if they want their goodies? Because that's how Norway does it.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello T. A. Gardner,
Thanks for making that point. I gave your post a 'Thanks' because of that good point.
Which means, of course, that all the conservative arguments that 'socialism does not work in Venezuela so it won't work here,' are also out.
Fair enough. And you made some good points about why Norway is doing well.
Now let's talk about universal healthcare.
Bottom line is it is going to cost everybody who has lots of money MORE to make sure everyone who has no money is provided with good healthcare.
That's the big objection from those with money. They don't want to pay for poor people to receive care.
That's selfishness.
They are only thinking of themselves. IGMTHWY I got mine, ... ... ... (nuff said)
They think being chintzy makes America great.
It doesn't. Being chintzy makes America chintzy.
If we want to be great, we will make sure no child is left behind and no human is left behind.
We have the capacity to care for everyone and that is what we need to do if we want to be a great country.
For those who are super-rich and don't want to take care of others? Shame on them. How disgraceful. The royal British family would never take that position.
Wealth distribution in the USA is PATHETIC! The richest have so much more than the average person it is ridiculous. It is embarrassing. Especially when we know that some of the more disgraceful aspects of capitalism are responsible.
The Disgraceful Aspects Of Capitalism:
1. Exploits The Unsuspecting. (Take advantage of the ignorant to rip them off, basically.)
2. Favors The Already Rich.
3. Shuts Out Start-ups.
4. Corrupts Government.
5. Negatively Affects Politics.
6. Neglects The Needy.
7. Leaves Blight
8. No Concern For The Environment.
9. Produces Global Warming.
10. Perpetuates Poverty.
Now, the above downsides of capitalism are no reason to abandon capitalism. We simply need to be wise about how we harness this great economic tool. We need a powerful government to properly regulate capitalism to minimize the downsides, and institute socialism where socialism would serve us better. Healthcare is a prime example.
Regulation. Oh oh. There's a loaded term. OK, the way to deal with regulation is to understand that it is not a simple thing. There is no one definition that fits all circumstances. Regulation, like capitalism, is not all bad. Again, we need a powerful government, a proper functional non-corrupt government that really works for we the people. When capitalism corrupts government, that gives regulation a bad rap. All regulation is not a bad thing. Regulation is nothing more than laws we need to abide by, which are designed to make society safer and a fair playing field for everyone. We just need better education, more understanding of how government can be our friend and work for us, and a more powerful government that properly regulates the power of the rich to try to corrupt government. We need more citizen involvement, more functional relationships between the people and the government.
There doesn't have to be anything mysterious or scary about government. We created it. If we don't like what government is doing, we have the power to change it. We need to get past the silly simplistic soundbytes that 'government is bad,' and that 'less government is always better.' Neither of those are always true.
Thanks for making that point. I gave your post a 'Thanks' because of that good point.
Which means, of course, that all the conservative arguments that 'socialism does not work in Venezuela so it won't work here,' are also out.
Fair enough. And you made some good points about why Norway is doing well.
Now let's talk about universal healthcare.
Bottom line is it is going to cost everybody who has lots of money MORE to make sure everyone who has no money is provided with good healthcare.
That's the big objection from those with money. They don't want to pay for poor people to receive care.
That's selfishness.
They are only thinking of themselves. IGMTHWY I got mine, ... ... ... (nuff said)
They think being chintzy makes America great.
It doesn't. Being chintzy makes America chintzy.
If we want to be great, we will make sure no child is left behind and no human is left behind.
We have the capacity to care for everyone and that is what we need to do if we want to be a great country.
For those who are super-rich and don't want to take care of others? Shame on them. How disgraceful. The royal British family would never take that position.
Wealth distribution in the USA is PATHETIC! The richest have so much more than the average person it is ridiculous. It is embarrassing. Especially when we know that some of the more disgraceful aspects of capitalism are responsible.
The Disgraceful Aspects Of Capitalism:
1. Exploits The Unsuspecting. (Take advantage of the ignorant to rip them off, basically.)
2. Favors The Already Rich.
3. Shuts Out Start-ups.
4. Corrupts Government.
5. Negatively Affects Politics.
6. Neglects The Needy.
7. Leaves Blight
8. No Concern For The Environment.
9. Produces Global Warming.
10. Perpetuates Poverty.
Now, the above downsides of capitalism are no reason to abandon capitalism. We simply need to be wise about how we harness this great economic tool. We need a powerful government to properly regulate capitalism to minimize the downsides, and institute socialism where socialism would serve us better. Healthcare is a prime example.
Regulation. Oh oh. There's a loaded term. OK, the way to deal with regulation is to understand that it is not a simple thing. There is no one definition that fits all circumstances. Regulation, like capitalism, is not all bad. Again, we need a powerful government, a proper functional non-corrupt government that really works for we the people. When capitalism corrupts government, that gives regulation a bad rap. All regulation is not a bad thing. Regulation is nothing more than laws we need to abide by, which are designed to make society safer and a fair playing field for everyone. We just need better education, more understanding of how government can be our friend and work for us, and a more powerful government that properly regulates the power of the rich to try to corrupt government. We need more citizen involvement, more functional relationships between the people and the government.
There doesn't have to be anything mysterious or scary about government. We created it. If we don't like what government is doing, we have the power to change it. We need to get past the silly simplistic soundbytes that 'government is bad,' and that 'less government is always better.' Neither of those are always true.
Yakuda
Verified User
How fucking stupid are you?
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Penderyn,
It makes more sense to have a corporate board, which makes decisions with huge impacts on the lives of workers, be comprised of members and representatives of the workers.
That is a requirement in Germany, and Germany treats workers far better than in the USA.
Ideally for workers, the entire board would be looking out for their interests, but in that case it adds another dimension to that corporation competing with other corporations which have no concern for labor. Functional government could provide regulation to level the playing field.
It makes more sense to have a corporate board, which makes decisions with huge impacts on the lives of workers, be comprised of members and representatives of the workers.
That is a requirement in Germany, and Germany treats workers far better than in the USA.
Ideally for workers, the entire board would be looking out for their interests, but in that case it adds another dimension to that corporation competing with other corporations which have no concern for labor. Functional government could provide regulation to level the playing field.
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
Let me just go through this list from a Socialist perspective.
1. Exploits the successful (Takes advantage of the smart and productive to rip them off, basically)
2. Favors the powerful who then become rich.
3. Shuts out start-ups. The government hates competition in Socialism
4. Corrupts government
5. Negatively affects politics.
6. Neglects the needy. Bread lines anyone?
7. Leaves blight
8. No concern for the environment (Chernobyl anyone?)
9. Produces Gorebal warming (like China is environmentally friendly)
10. Poverty is perpetual
11. Breeds dependence and lethargy
12. Encourages black markets
13. Reduces productivity
14. All but eliminates innovation
15. Reduces product diversity (one size fits all)
Capitalism has its downsides. Socialism is worse. In healthcare, the problem is insurance. If we got that out of the market it and returned to pay-as-you-go prices for healthcare would plummet. Where we could use a national plan is one that covers only catastrophic events. Sure, there's a very high deductible, but most could pay it off over several years like the purchase of a car or other major purchase. For the truly indigent, it might be reduced--but not eliminated. You want people to take some degree of responsibility.
On regulation: Yes, we need some, but in all but the rarest cases zero-tolerance is neither the objective or desirable. Right now, that's how government bureaucracies that regulate things thinks.
A great example of how this works in reality comes from the charity March of Dimes. This charity was formed to eradicate the disease Polio. Well, a few years back Polio was eliminated as a disease. The March of Dimes had fulfilled its mission. No more need for it...
Did it go away, disband? Hell no! It simply switched to a new disease and continued on like before. This is essentially how government bureaucracies that regulate things work. They see it as there is always a need for more regulation.
It isn't that regulation is a bad thing in moderation, it is a bad thing when you keep placing more and more of it on businesses and people simply because you can and see doing that as part of justifying your job. For example, you rarely hear people ask "How clean does the environment need to be? How much pollution should we allow?" The wrong and insane answer is "Completely clean. We shouldn't allow any pollution." That's a ZERO TOLERANCE mentality and it is destructive to society and the economy.
Government needs to be on a very short choker leash at all times.
Lightbringer
Loves Me Some Souls
You went full Godwin...never go full Godwin, sheepfucker.
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
Lightbringer
Loves Me Some Souls
I don't think Penderyn is from New Zealand, Australia, or Texas...
He's from Wales.
Sheepfucker confirmed.
gemini104104
Verified User
How's about the concept of high treason against U.S. Constitutional law and un American barbaric acts against humanity versus patriotism in favor of the well being of America, U.S. Constitutional and the common decency of humanity and anything else of a civilized nature on Earth?
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Rarely does one work so hard to lie to oneself as you do. Is it working?
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Wrong Buck-O, you're a moron.
Socialism simply cannot work. It denies economics. This is why all implementations of Marxism always fail. They simply cannot work. The fact that you do not understand this is quite the testament that economics is not your strong suit and makes any rational person what the hell makes you think you belong in any adult discussion on the matter.
Your economics incompetence precludes you from understanding why Norway is not socialism. You just don't know when to hang it up.
Why do you think it is even possible to provide all people with good healthcare? Ah yes, your incompetence in economics. What was I thinking?
The price tag for universal healthcare in the US is several times the US annual budget. No country provides universal healthcare. They just exact heavy taxes to make people get on LOOOOOOONG waiting lists for routine procedures and simply not provide the expensive procedures, forcing citizens to pay double, i.e. once in high taxes for the healthcare not provided and once to private healthcare to actually get the treatment.
It's everybody's big objection. When you go to a restaurant, do you want to be forced by the government to pay for forty other people's meals as well? People work to earn money so that they can decide how to spend it. Nobody likes the government confiscating and redistributing their wealth.
When you pay your taxes, why don't you just add $20,000 as a gift to the government? Well?
You are a fucking moron. MO-RON. Now I know why you absolutely NEED to control all conversations because you can't say anything that doesn't desperately need to be mocked. Not only are you a total idiot, you are a judgemental asshole. What a waste of bandwidth.
You are a total loser who has no sense of personal responsibility. You're a mooch. You are a cancer on society.
Freedom makes America great, not having some tyrannical government that punishes the successful for adding value to society by confiscating what they have earned and redistributing it to shit like you as a reward for not adding any value to society.
... and you whine like a baby.
We already are great, because we give every person many opportunities to be successful. Unfortunately, there are always some lazy, whining losers who simply refuse to add valude to society and thus don't become successful. They in turn blame everyone else but themselves and blame the successful for "rubbing their success in their faces" so they demand the government PUNISH them for having the audacity to be successful and to be happy in public by confiscating the wealth of the successful and giving to them so they don't ever have to lower themselves to earning any money by adding value to society.
LOSER.
No, we don't have the capacity to care for everyone for free and to sustain it. It's way too expensive. Learn economics.
For losers like you who can only bitch and whine and complain about others for your own fuck-ups and missed opportunities, shame on you. How disgraceful.
I'm glad to see that you worship nobility. Part of the reason the US is as great as it is is that we outlaw nobility.
Wealth is not distributed, moron, it is earned. Just for laughs, who do you think the national wealth distributor is? It's like you don't fucking know anything.
There's a very good reason that those who add the most value to society have so much more reward for doing so than those who add so much less value to society.
Start adding value to society and watch how your financial reward increases. Why am I the first person to tell you this? Did your parents not love you? Did they never pull you aside and tell you about your responsibilities to the world in which you live? Did they not instill any sense of personal responsibility within you.
In all your posts you dron on and on and on about how others should have their wealth confiscated and given to you and not once have you ever mentioned what you should be doing to improve your own situation. ... and what to you do the moment someone suggests that you should make an effort to be of some value to society? You instantly put them on "Ignore" before finishing the sentence.
Did I mention that you are a loser? I'm sorry ... a LOSER?
Just for laughs, what do you think those are? Aaaah, you don't know anything about capitalism so you are simply hoping no one calls you on the bullshit you invent as you go.
Sorry, that also falls under personal responsibility. Caveot emptor, buyer beware. It also requires discipline to not max out credit cards just because you have them.
Nope. It works the same for all. Learn economics.
1. You are talking about "barriers to entry" and those occur with government regulation interfering in the free market. You and your Marxism are the ones advocating for barriers to entry while "unfettered capitalists" oppose all such, hence the "unfettered" part.
You have to admit that its pretty hilarious that you went off on a rant about a topic of which you know nothing and ended up insulting yourself. Too funny!
Way too funny! Back-to-back self-insults. You are the one pleading for a tyrannical government. "Unfettered capitalist" want government staying out of all markets.
You are on one hilarious roll! Keep it up.
Yep! Three in a row. The more government is allowed into the economy, the more people play to the government to steer it into their favor. Get the government out of the economy and it will evaporate from politics.
Nope. The US is the most charitable country on the planet. Period. Of course Americans are less charitable when the government seizes their cash and redistributes it to greedy, lazy, miserbale, social cancers like you. The needy suffer when the government slashes the people's ability to be charitable.
That's government again. Have you seen California's tent cities? Skid row? Thank a Democrat the next time you see one.
Wrong. Rich people value the environment, cherish it and maintain it in pristine fashion. The poor, on the other hand, trash it. Have you ever been to Haiti? Afghanistan is an absolutely beautiful country ... wherever there aren't any people.
Only to the brainwashed scientifically illiterate morons who gullibly fall for that WACKY religion of HATRED and intolerance. The reason the Church of Global Warming targets the stupid, the scientifically illiterate and the gullible is that educated people who paid attention in science class don't fall for the bogus violations of physics on which the Global Warming faith is based. In other words, this is only a concern in your mind ... a concern for scientifically illiterate morons like you.
Nope. The US has lifted more people out of poverty than any other country. That's why so many people come to the US every year. In fact, the "poverty line" in the US is solid middle class in many countries. More than half the world would gladly trade places with an American at the "poverty line."
You are totally clueless.
You want a tyrannical government that will create Venezuela here in the US. No thanks.
Yep. If you understood economics better you might realize why.
Nope. The way to understand regulation is that it screws with the price realization of the supply/demand curve. That is never good. In fact, it causes all the problems you list above.
[ G . . . O . . . _ . . . T . . . O . . . _ . . . S . . . C . . . H . . . O . . . O . . . L ]
Someone should tell Sweden about this. They've been implementing capitalist reforms for the last 20 years or so. They seem to be doing ok economically, however.
Norway is hardly socialist in the Cuban sense, however. Worker protections and government intervention are nothing new for Western economies, but Norway's success is largely due to the fact that they still are very competitive in a lot of economic sectors. That's from capitalistic traits, not socialist ones.
For any system that relies heavily on government spending for public amenities, you have to generate the income used for these expenses from the private sector. That's why Norway succeeds and Venezuela has not.
There are plenty of heavily unionized areas of the US. A lot of the unions involved are incredibly corrupt.
Corporate law has plenty of flaws, but what you're referencing is irrelevant. One of the main issues with corporations is with regard to liability. If the "corporate veil" didn't exist, then the individuals running a corporation could be held more liable for all sorts of things and their personal finances could be penalized. This would lead to more conservative choices by corporations, and CEOs would be more careful about how to handle investments and things like pollution.