Suing Cosmo Kramer

[Cancel7]

The kind of venom and hatred it takes not to have a forgiving bone in ones own body?
The guy obviously has mental problems... it takes mental problems to go on the type of rant that he displayed. Lets not forget... he didnt randomnly pick these two ... they heckled and continued to heckle .... they were not two innocent victims as they pretend to make them selves out ....
With their use of the word cracker... they obviously have issues of their own ...

You don't know me, or whether or not I am forgiving. And you don't need to. As I stated, this is not about forgivness, but rather about, endorsement. I do not need to endorse, with my own money, these kinds of views.

You do what you want to with your money.

And their response to him, was simple self-defense reflexes. If you call someone fat, they're bound to call your mother fat, or some such nonsense. It in no way compares to what he said about lynching.

Why on earth would I want to financially support someone who endorses lynching? How absurd.

 

[Jarod]

I know I have made bad mistakes in my life. I have done hurtfull things... Thank god those I did them to forgave me.

 

[Jarod]

I hold no ill feelings toward Trent Lott, I wont vote for him because I dont like his politics... but he said he was sorry about the hurtfull comments he made and I forgive him!

 

[Cancel7]

I know I have made bad mistakes in my life. I have done hurtfull things... Thank god those I did them to forgave me.

That's great Jared...but would you donate money to him?

Again, whether or not I "forgive" him is not at issue. I don't know that I am in any position to give or to withhold forgiveness from him; after all, I am white.

The question then becomes, do I want to donate my money to him? The answer is, no.

 

[Damocles]

You don't know me, or whether or not I am forgiving. And you don't need to. As I stated, this is not about forgivness, but rather about, endorsement. I do not need to endorse, with my own money, these kinds of views.

You do what you want to with your money.

And their response to him, was simple self-defense reflexes. If you call someone fat, they're bound to call your mother fat, or some such nonsense. It in no way compares to what he said about lynching.

Why on earth would I want to financially support someone who endorses lynching? How absurd.

Hmmm... And those who no longer support the Dixie Chicks? I remember yards and yards of posts about how awful people who made that choice were...

Of course, I never liked them... I don't boycott them, I just don't care... Same with this one. I wouldn't buy a season of Seinfeld, they keep running them on T.V....

 

[klaatu]

You don't know me, or whether or not I am forgiving. And you don't need to. As I stated, this is not about forgivness, but rather about, endorsement. I do not need to endorse, with my own money, these kinds of views.

You do what you want to with your money.

And their response to him, was simple self-defense reflexes. If you call someone fat, they're bound to call your mother fat, or some such nonsense. It in no way compares to what he said about lynching.

Why on earth would I want to financially support someone who endorses lynching? How absurd.

Im not saying you should endorse him .... Im just stating the obvious.... Michael Richards has problems. You give the hecklers a free pass by saying theirs was a simple self defense reflex... but you acuse Michale Richards of endorsing lynching ....well his poor selection of words could also be a simple self defense reflex due to the relentless heckling of the two innocents.

 

[Cancel7]

Hmmm... And those who no longer support the Dixie Chicks? I remember yards and yards of posts about how awful people who made that choice were...

Of course, I never liked them... I don't boycott them, I just don't care... Same with this one. I wouldn't buy a season of Seinfeld, they keep running them on T.V....

I'm not sure what your yards and yards of posts have to do with me, I didn't make them. People have every right to choose not to financially support whomever they don't want to. That is what we call consequences. Now, when clear channel bans the Dixie chicks, that is something different. That is censorship.

Are any television stations banning re-runs of Seinfeld, Damo?

Right. I thought not.

 

[Cancel7]

Im not saying you should endorse him .... Im just stating the obvious.... Michael Richards has problems. You give the hecklers a free pass by saying theirs was a simple self defense reflex... but you acuse Michale Richards of endorsing lynching ....well his poor selection of words could also be a simple self defense reflex due to the relentless heckling of the two innocents.

Klaatu, comediens get heckled.

 

[Damocles]

I'm not sure what your yards and yards of posts have to do with me, I didn't make them. People have every right to choose not to financially support whomever they don't want to. That is what we call consequences. Now, when clear channel bans the Dixie chicks, that is something different. That is censorship.

Are any television stations banning re-runs of Seinfeld, Damo?

Right. I thought not.

I don't know yet, how many can even run them? It seems that only a few can run them at all...

Also, they likely will cancel them when they get less viewership. People will simply be uncomfortable watching the show because of him...

 

[Cancel7]

I don't know yet, how many can even run them? It seems that only a few can run them at all...

Also, they likely will cancel them when they get less viewership. People will simply be uncomfortable watching the show because of him...

That would be the free market at work baby!

 

[klaatu]

Klaatu, comediens get heckled.

Agree ... and as a result sometimes comedians snap... in this case it happend to be a very high profile one...

Here in Buffalo we have an interesting debate going on ... many fans are calling for OJ Simpsons Name to be removed from the Wall of Fame in Rich Stadium where the Buffalo Bills play their home games. The recent Book controversy has spurred the debate ... those who oppose such a move say that OJ's name is on the wall because of his stellar play as a Football player and should not be judged by his actions off the field.. others say that character is important on and off the field and his name remaining on the wall is a stain on the city of Buffalo ...
I see both arguments ... but I tend to lean towards those who say his name should be removed ... because I believe character is important ... in this particular case we are talking about a man who is laughing in the face of getting away with murder ... no apologies neccessary. In Kramers case ... he made a horrible mistake in judgment ... he attempted an apology ... weak as it was .... it would be good for his own self esteem if he were to appear publicly with these two guys and hash it out..with an apology. If he does this he would right a wrong and restore his character. After all what he did is easy to forgive ... it wasnt murder ....

 

[LadyT]

People have every right to choose not to financially support whomever they don't want to. That is what we call consequences.

Klaatu, comediens get heckled.

Correct on both accounts. I'd go so far as to say that comedians should expect to be heckled at some point in their career. Him getting heckled isn't even close to being on par with what he did. Kramer himself admits that he was way out of line and that what he did was uncalled for. But as per usual the apologists want to excuse the inexcusable.

 

[Cancel7]

Agree ... and as a result sometimes comedians snap... in this case it happend to be a very high profile one...

Here in Buffalo we have an interesting debate going on ... many fans are calling for OJ Simpsons Name to be removed from the Wall of Fame in Rich Stadium where the Buffalo Bills play their home games. The recent Book controversy has spurred the debate ... those who oppose such a move say that OJ's name is on the wall because of his stellar play as a Football player and should not be judged by his actions off the field.. others say that character is important on and off the field and his name remaining on the wall is a stain on the city of Buffalo ...
I see both arguments ... but I tend to lean towards those who say his name should be removed ... because I believe character is important ... in this particular case we are talking about a man who is laughing in the face of getting away with murder ... no apologies neccessary. In Kramers case ... he made a horrible mistake in judgment ... he attempted an apology ... weak as it was .... it would be good for his own self esteem if he were to appear publicly with these two guys and hash it out..with an apology. If he does this he would right a wrong and restore his character. After all what he did is easy to forgive ... it wasnt murder ....

Look I don't know what I think about the situation you describe. I guess I can see both sides of it as well. But it's different. You know, if I lived there, and the men on the wall were receiving some sort of stipend for being on the wall, and it was coming out of tax dollars, then I'd want his name down. But that's not the case. The entire OJ thing is so filled with race, and you don't see it Klaatu, I know that you don't. But it's colored by something else too, and that is domestic violence and the glorification of the athlete in American society. I remember reading that Cindy Garvey (steve garvey's then wife) ran into Nicole Simpson in a supermarket once. And they both knew the other was being beaten at home. And they spoke of it, and one of them said, someday he'll kill me and no one will care because he's a hero. I don't remember which one said that. But athletes get a free pass for a lot in our society, and spousal abuse is not rare in these circles. How many of you men know that Steve Garvey beat his wife? He didn't kill her, so it's under your radar.

And as for Richards, I just don't see this as a horrible mistake in judgement. If he had screamed at them "you mf *@##$%$" that would be a mistake in judgement. But where did the things he said even come from? No matter how mad I got, and I can get mad, I wouldn't say those things, because I don't think them. He thinks them. Do you understand that? And as for him "snapping" so what? I've had people tell me that OJ snapped, that Andrea Yates snapped. Yeah, I guess that they did. And now there are consequences. And an apology doesn't cover it. I think that not only race is playing a role here, but also the cult of celebrity. We see Richards as Kramer. I myself could not believe what I was seeing when I first watched it. Kramer was the most human out of the four characters on Seinfeld. And Seinfeld is a beloved show and Kramer is a beloved character. But they were just characters. We really need to separate the two. I also think you feel sorry for him. And I understand that too. He's a pitiful character now. He really is washed up, and was long before this. And he's reduced to doing stand up in clubs, and apparently, he's not really very funny, or so I have read. He probably gets heckled a lot. He's kind of a broken figure. It is sad. But he's also a very ugly specimen. There's a certain kind of person who loves going to comedy clubs because they like to heckle people, and like to watch comedians make fun of audience members (because that happens a lot too don't forget). I think those kinds of people are abusive. I don't like comedy clubs and I don't go to them. Were these two men those types? We don't know. But it's not about what they were, it's about what he is. Because I'm not buying their dvds.

 

[Cancel7]

Correct on both accounts. I'd go so far as to say that comedians should expect to be heckled at some point in their career. Him getting heckled isn't even close to being on par with what he did. Kramer himself admits that he was way out of line and that what he did was uncalled for. But as per usual the apologists want to excuse the inexcusable.

It seems to me that there is always some excuse, and some attempt at moral equivalence. We see it constantly in politics and in everything really. But I agree with you and I do not see the moral equivalance here. What they did does not compare.

 

[TRGLDTE]

I wonder how you would feel though Rob, if he had instead, said to a gay member of the audience, "if this was Bama, we'd have your ass tied to a chain link fence like Matthew Sheppard."

Because that is the kind of inhuman hatred we are talking about here.

Are you trying to accomplish something by tying the MAtthew Sheppard incident (Colorado) with Alabama? Granted Bama is not the posterchild for good interracial behavior, but put the blame where the blame lies, please.

 

[TRGLDTE]

The kind of venom and hatred it takes not to have a forgiving bone in ones own body?
The guy obviously has mental problems... it takes mental problems to go on the type of rant that he displayed. Lets not forget... he didnt randomnly pick these two ... they heckled and continued to heckle .... they were not two innocent victims as they pretend to make them selves out ....
With their use of the word cracker... they obviously have issues of their own ...

"Cracker" was fired back at Richards in response to his use of the word "Nigger." It was after, not before.

 

[Jarod]

When a man makes a mistake and says he is sorry I try not to hold it against him anylonger...

If he makes the same mistake over and over again... and keeps apologising... I would hold it against him.

If he makes a mistaks that intentionally and phisically or mentally scars someone... I would forgive him, but think he should be held legally accountable.

 

[uscitizen]

I don't forgive Kramer for being on Seinfeld.

 

[TRGLDTE]

When a man makes a mistake and says he is sorry I try not to hold it against him anylonger...

If he makes the same mistake over and over again... and keeps apologising... I would hold it against him.

If he makes a mistaks that intentionally and phisically or mentally scars someone... I would forgive him, but think he should be held legally accountable.

I'm not too keen on forgiving him right now. His apology seemed really, really weak to me, and he's got issues that he does not appear to have taken action to address. He needs to do that. Even then, I'm voting against him by not supporting him with my dollars.

 

[Jarod]

I am quick to forgive the first time...