Suprise, Obamacare "very reasonable"

Annie said:
No, I'm not 'ignoring the subsidies.' You are ignoring the fact that previously many could opt into employer subsidized plans, but looking at the premiums and the deductibles, couldn't afford it. Many with 'insurance' cannot afford Dr. visits because of the deductibles. They never go, thus never hit limits, do without meds and advice for high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, etc. There is nothing here to change that.
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Yeah, they'd all be better off just not having access to insurance at all.
 
Dungheap said:
First of all, the Bronze Plans aren't really a whole heck of a lot different from the high deductible plans that are available today. That's why I called them souped up versions of high deductible plans that are already quite common.

I'm not familiar with the arguments that high deductible plans are bankrupting people today so if you could give me a link or two I'll try to explain it to you. To the extent I've heard such arguments they typically deal with no insurance situations or insurance with annual caps on coverage and the like, not necessarily high deductible plans.
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http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/high-deductible-plans-for-those-with-chronic-conditions/
 
Dungheap said:
Yeah, they'd all be better off just not having access to insurance at all.
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Actually I had some ideas on reform, have for years. Posted a few in response to one of BAC's questions a couple days ago.

My basic premise is to lower costs for primary care, to do that? Get rid of insurance at that point. good primary care is what most folks need and without insurance involvement, most doctors could drastically lower their costs, become sole proprietors again and reestablish relationships between themselves and patients.

Dental, vision care, etc., should be on pay-as-you-go basis. Historically drs, dentists, etc., made a fine living, oftentimes taking payments over time.

Give people an incentive to get the care they need, Drs. to do what they were trained to do.

Seems to me that the regulations are taking those most in need from bad to worse.
 
Drop state line limits on the purchase of health insurance. I have NO CLUE why the left has consistently opposed this measure.
 
Superfreak said:
http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/high-deductible-plans-for-those-with-chronic-conditions/
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Well, that's making a comparison between high deductible plans and traditional plans. As between the two, (and this is point I have raised with you several times) hgh deductible plans are bad for people with chronic conditions. The good thing about the exchanges is that people with chronic conditions have access to traditional insurance plans, not just high deductible ones.
 
Socrtease said:
Drop state line limits on the purchase of health insurance. I have NO CLUE why the left has consistently opposed this measure.
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Opposition is largely based on the fear that a state, say, North Dakota, will adopt extremely insurer friendly regulations to attract insurers to headquarter there and everyone will end up subject to North Dakota's insurer friendly regulations. Kinda like what happened with credit card companies flocking to Delaware because they could charge higher interest rates.
 
Dungheap said:
Opposition is largely based on the fear that a state, say, North Dakota, will adopt extremely insurer friendly regulations to attract insurers to headquarter there and everyone will end up subject to North Dakota's insurer friendly regulations. Kinda like what happened with credit card companies flocking to Delaware because they could charge higher interest rates.
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Damn, I was going to "clue" he and SF in, but you beat me to it. Mine was going to be so much snarkier!
 
Annie said:
Actually I had some ideas on reform, have for years. Posted a few in response to one of BAC's questions a couple days ago.

My basic premise is to lower costs for primary care, to do that? Get rid of insurance at that point. good primary care is what most folks need and without insurance involvement, most doctors could drastically lower their costs, become sole proprietors again and reestablish relationships between themselves and patients.

Dental, vision care, etc., should be on pay-as-you-go basis. Historically drs, dentists, etc., made a fine living, oftentimes taking payments over time.

Give people an incentive to get the care they need, Drs. to do what they were trained to do.




Seems to me that the regulations are taking those most in need from bad to worse.
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Those are part of the human body and are VERY involved in preventative care
 
Dungheap said:
Well, that's making a comparison between high deductible plans and traditional plans. As between the two, (and this is point I have raised with you several times) hgh deductible plans are bad for people with chronic conditions. The good thing about the exchanges is that people with chronic conditions have access to traditional insurance plans, not just high deductible ones.
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No, they do not... even the gold plan has a $1000 deductible for an individual and $2k for family, with 3 and 6k out of pocket expenses.

Also, the article you obviously didn't read discussed how people with high deductible plans said they faced more financial burdens than those with low deductible plans. The article stated high deductible as $1000 or more. So do try to read it before commenting again.
 
Dungheap said:
Opposition is largely based on the fear that a state, say, North Dakota, will adopt extremely insurer friendly regulations to attract insurers to headquarter there and everyone will end up subject to North Dakota's insurer friendly regulations. Kinda like what happened with credit card companies flocking to Delaware because they could charge higher interest rates.
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So instead you increase the administration requirements of all insurance companies, which in turn force premiums higher. Great idea... because that means more costs go to cover admin instead of actual care.
 
Superfreak said:
No, they do not... even the gold plan has a $1000 deductible for an individual and $2k for family, with 3 and 6k out of pocket expenses.
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It depends on the state and the plan. I assume you're looking at the CT plans, which aren't necessarily what's available elsewhere. California, for example, has no deductible for its Gold Plan. Also, one of the CT Silver plans has no deductible.


Superfreak said:
Also, the article you obviously didn't read discussed how people with high deductible plans said they faced more financial burdens than those with low deductible plans. The article stated high deductible as $1000 or more. So do try to read it before commenting again.
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No, I read the article and I know how people with high deductible plans face more financial burdens than those with low deductible plans. I've actually raised this very fact before with you when you touted how wonderful your high deductible plan is for your specific circumstances. I explained to you that such plans are not very good for people with chronic conditions that require lots of care. (I also made that point pretty clear in my first post in this thread).
 
Superfreak said:
funny how Dung balked in earlier threads about my suggestion for more high deductible plans and HSA accounts and now his beloved masters plan is all about high deductible plans.
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I still think more high deductible plans is a shitty idea. The good news is that the ACA doesn't just offer high deductible plans, contrary to your misinformed belief.
 
Superfreak said:
So instead you increase the administration requirements of all insurance companies, which in turn force premiums higher. Great idea... because that means more costs go to cover admin instead of actual care.
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It's a good thing the ACA built in caps on administrative expenses to claims ratios, isn't it.
 
Dungheap said:
It depends on the state and the plan. I assume you're looking at the CT plans, which aren't necessarily what's available elsewhere. California, for example, has no deductible for its Gold Plan. Also, one of the CT Silver plans has no deductible.
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and you are referring to the CT silver plan that is only available for those at 150% of poverty level and that one STILL has a 2-4k out of pocket max. How is someone at 150% of poverty level or below going to afford that? Oh yeah, they won't.


No, I read the article and I know how people with high deductible plans face more financial burdens than those with low deductible plans. I've actually raised this very fact before with you when you touted how wonderful your high deductible plan is for your specific circumstances. I explained to you that such plans are not very good for people with chronic conditions that require lots of care. (I also made that point pretty clear in my first post in this thread).
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It is simply perceived... not reality. They also pay lower monthly premiums. They just feel it more because they actually have to write the checks, whereas most plans are deducted from the paycheck and the lower deductible, while costing more, aren't felt due to the out of sight out of mind style of payment.
 
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