Tea Party Sustainability

[Damocles]

You say conservatives preserve the "status quo"...

So we can infer from this statement that you believe real conservatives don't support school choice?

Yes, by definition the conservative position would be to maintain the current status regardless of the damage it has done to the future of the nation and how it is currently failing children. It is more "progressive" to seek a solution that would fundamentally change the structure. We constantly mess up these terms in the US, we assume that all things republican is "conservative" and all things democrat is "radical" or "progressive".

However politics, like life, are rarely that cut and dry.

A conservative position in the old USSR would be to have kept the old communism. The hard-line conservatives would wish to do that regardless of evidence of the epic failure of centralized totalitarianism.

 

[DamnYankee]

Yes, by definition the conservative position would be to maintain the current status regardless of the damage it has done to the future of the nation and how it is currently failing children. ...

No, the Conservative position would be as stated in the platform of the Conservative Party, which is to promote school choice.

 

[Phantasmal]

No, the Conservative position would be as stated in the platform of the Conservative Party, which is to promote school choice.

Yeah, that will be a nightmare! Talk about growing government!

 

[DamnYankee]

Frog, I think you need to use exclamation points more frequently.

 

[Phantasmal]

Frog, I think you need to use exclamation points more frequently.

Thanks, I love them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Damocles]

No, the Conservative position would be as stated in the platform of the Conservative Party, which is to promote school choice.

1. It's the republican party, not the "conservative" party.
2. It has stances that are both conservative and ones that are not.

Almost every time somebody works to change the law to protect people either from their own stupidity or to protect their soul from their disbelief it is a politically radical position. It seeks to change laws not to conserve the current state. Americans tend to be simplistic in this, everything republican is "conservative", it simply isn't true if you apply a brain cell to it.

The conservative position would be to protect the individual freedoms secured in the constitution, not to seek laws to restrict the personal and/or religious freedoms of others or to create laws to restrict the "religious right". Both positions are radical as they work to change what we have and replace it with something more restrictive to the "other side"...

And BTW - I am simply being accurate, I am not denigrating such positions specifically or even making an opinion as to whether they should be sought after. I am simply pointing out that it is no way "conservative" to seek to change things, that is actually contrary to the definition of conservative.

 

[Phantasmal]

1. It's the republican party, not the "conservative" party.
2. It has stances that are both conservative and ones that are not.

Almost every time somebody works to change the law to protect people either from their own stupidity or to protect their soul from their disbelief it is a politically radical position. It seeks to change laws not to conserve the current state. Americans tend to be simplistic in this, everything republican is "conservative", it simply isn't true if you apply a brain cell to it.

The conservative position would be to protect the individual freedoms secured in the constitution, not to seek laws to restrict the personal and/or religious freedoms of others or to create laws to restrict the "religious right". Both positions are radical as they work to change what we have and replace it with something more restrictive to the "other side"...

Why is it Damo that they try to do this so often then? I have never understood this about Republicans. They seem to try to restrict personal activity on every level!

 

[Phantasmal]

Why is it Damo that they try to do this so often then? I have never understood this about Republicans. They seem to try to restrict personal activity on every level!

And now, one more thought, sorry, they want to wrap it up in God all the time.

 

[Damocles]

Why is it Damo that they try to do this so often then? I have never understood this about Republicans. They seem to try to restrict personal activity on every level!

So do the Democrats. Currently the political radicals on that side of the aisle are working to get rid of traditional displays of Christmas. They ignore the benefit that businesses get from such displays, and simply want all mention of Jesus gone from all "public" buildings. Rather than be inclusive in use they want to exclude. Billboards are going up in Denver, NYC, etc. with Jesus, Joseph and Mary specifically. No menorahs, nada but Christianity in the sites of the radical left.

IMO, agreed to by the SCOTUS, it is better to be inclusive rather than to try to exclude anybody. It is better to have all groups with a seat at the table than to just take the table away so that nobody gets to eat.

 

[Phantasmal]

So do the Democrats. Currently the political radicals on that side of the aisle are working to get rid of traditional displays of Christmas. They ignore the benefit that businesses get from such displays, and simply want all mention of Jesus gone from all "public" buildings. Rather than be inclusive in use they want to exclude. Billboards are going up in Denver, NYC, etc. with Jesus, Joseph and Mary specifically. No menorahs, nada but Christianity in the sites of the radical left.

IMO, agreed to by the SCOTUS, it is better to be inclusive rather than to try to exclude anybody. It is better to have all groups with a seat at the table than to just take the table away so that nobody gets to eat.

They are the most vocal, you don't see the Jews working so openly for a theocracy! It is the way I see it. Christians can be very offensive, and I really don't think Jesus would want his life all tied up in commercialism, but that is just the way I read him!

 

[Canceled1]

Frog, I think you need to use exclamation points more frequently.

That's what you call her PO = Public Orgasm

She always overheated, over-stimulated, and ready to gush at the least provocation! Either that or she needs to back off the crack.

 

[NOVA]

Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
Well maybe you wouldn't but I would consider a person who opposes first trimester abortions in cases of rape and incest, hard right.

I'd say opposing medical marijauna is hard right.

I'd say supporting displays of the 10 commandments in public schools is hard right.

I'd say supporting the teaching of creationism in science class is hard right.

I'd say opposing embryonic stem cell research is hard right.

I'd say his opposition to anti pollution laws in his own state is hard right.

I'd say his suggestion to quarentine AIDS patients is hard right.

I'd say his support of illegal immigrants as a sourch of cheap labor that under cuts wages is hard right.

I'd say his comment "I feel homosexuality is an aberrant, unnatural, and sinful lifestyle, and we now know it can pose a dangerous public health risk" is a hard right position.

I'd say suggesting that we increase an all ready bloated military by 50% is hard right position.

And I would agree with everything above in the general sense, tempered with some 'common sense'....
===================================================================================================

I'd say his support of Bush's immoral war in Iraq and his comments that "opposition to the war in Iraq is dangerous" is extremely hard right.

I'd say his stance on using military force on Iran is not only hard right but down right scary.

And I'd point out
1...That Congress, including the leaders of the Democratic Party, passed the War Resolution with full knowledge that using FORCE was a provision.
2...That the UN passed between 15 and 20 Resolutions against Iraq and Saddam, with UNANIMOUS VOTES
3...That 'regime change" in Iraq was US policy established under Clinton and a Democrat Congress and Administration....
4...That US threats against Saddam and Iraq were COMMON and ABUNDANT from Democrats for almost a decade..(see infamous Dem. Quotes on Saddam)
--------------------
I'd say his position that the US must defend Israel because it was promised to the Jews by God is not only hard right but it is insane.
And I'd point out that only if you can prove Bush actually said "we must defend Israel because it was promised to the Jews by God" would I agree its insane.
--------------------
I'd say that his position that Palestinians do not have a place in Jeruselum when they have been living there for over a thousand years is not only hard right, it's down right inhuman.
And I'd point out that only if you can prove Bush actually said "Palestinians do not have a place in Jeruselum" would I agree its inhuman.
-------------------
I'd say his comments to ammend the US Constitution to meet God's laws is not only hard right but is the sign of a religious zealot and a fanatic.
And I'd point out that only if you can prove Bush actually said he wants "to ammend the US Constitution to meet God's laws " would I agree its the sign of a zealot.
-------------------
Based on those public positions I'd have to say only someone who is hard right themself can make an asinine comment about Huckabee being just a religious populist.
And who the hell cares what label anyone wants to pin on Hunkabee?
=======
I'd say that supporting regressive tax schemes, such as the "Fair Tax", which places the burden of taxation on the middle and working classes is a hard right position.
I'd say that wanting to eliminate the IRS and the Dept of Education are very hard right positions.

FAIR TAX? ... Sounds good to me so far....but we need the details for final approval..

What is the FairTax plan?

The FairTax plan is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal income and payroll based taxes with an integrated approach including a progressive national retail sales tax, a prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level, dollar-for-dollar federal revenue neutrality, and, through companion legislation, the repeal of the 16th Amendment.

The FairTax Act (HR 25, S 296) is nonpartisan legislation. It abolishes all federal personal and corporate income taxes, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, and self-employment taxes and replaces them with one simple, visible, federal retail sales tax administered primarily by existing state sales tax authorities.

The FairTax taxes us only on what we choose to spend on new goods or services, not on what we earn. The FairTax is a fair, efficient, transparent, and intelligent solution to the frustration and inequity of our current tax system.

The FairTax:

* Enables workers to keep their entire paychecks
* Enables retirees to keep their entire pensions
* Refunds in advance the tax on purchases of basic necessities
* Allows American products to compete fairly
* Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy
* Ensures Social Security and Medicare funding
* Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation
* Abolishes the IRS

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_main

 

[Bfgrn]

So do the Democrats. Currently the political radicals on that side of the aisle are working to get rid of traditional displays of Christmas. They ignore the benefit that businesses get from such displays, and simply want all mention of Jesus gone from all "public" buildings. Rather than be inclusive in use they want to exclude. Billboards are going up in Denver, NYC, etc. with Jesus, Joseph and Mary specifically. No menorahs, nada but Christianity in the sites of the radical left.

IMO, agreed to by the SCOTUS, it is better to be inclusive rather than to try to exclude anybody. It is better to have all groups with a seat at the table than to just take the table away so that nobody gets to eat.

How The ACLU Didn't Steal Christmas

December 7, 2005
Fran Quigley, Executive Director, Indiana Civil Liberties Union


When the angry phone calls and emails started arriving at the office, I knew the holiday season was upon us. A typical message shouted that we at the American Civil Liberties Union are "horrible" and "we should be ashamed of ourselves," and then concluded with an incongruous and agitated "Merry Christmas."

We get this type of correspondence a lot, mostly in reaction to a well-organized attempt by extremist groups to demonize the ACLU, crush religious diversity, and make a few bucks in the process. Sadly, this self-interested effort is being promoted in the guise of defending Christmas.

For example, the Alliance Defense Fund celebrates the season with an "It's OK to say Merry Christmas" campaign, implying that the ACLU has challenged such holiday greetings. (As part of the effort, you can get a pamphlet and two Christmas pins for $29.)

The website WorldNetDaily touts a book claiming "a thorough and virulent anti-Christmas campaign is being waged today by liberal activists and ACLU fanatics." The site's magazine has suggested there will be ACLU efforts to remove "In God We Trust" from U.S. currency, fire military chaplains, and expunge all references to God in America's founding documents. (Learn more for just $19.95 . . . )

Of course, there is no "Merry Christmas" lawsuit, nor is there any ACLU litigation about U.S. currency, military chaplains, etc. But the facts are not important to these groups, because their real message is this: By protecting the freedom of Muslims, Jews, and other non-Christians through preventing government entanglement with religion, the ACLU is somehow infringing on the rights of those with majority religious beliefs.

In truth, it is these website Christians who are taking the Christ out of the season. Nowhere in the Sermon on the Mount did Jesus Christ ask that we celebrate His birth with narrow-mindedness and intolerance, especially for those who are already marginalized and persecuted. Instead, the New Testament—like the Torah and the Koran and countless other sacred texts—commands us to love our neighbor, and to comfort the sick and the imprisoned.

That's what the ACLU does. We live in a country filled with people who are sick and disabled, people who are imprisoned, and people who hunger and thirst for justice. Those people come to our Indiana offices for help, at a rate of several hundred a week, usually because they have nowhere else to turn. The least of our brothers and sisters sure aren't getting any help from the Alliance Defense Fund or WorldNet Daily. So, as often as we can, ACLU secures justice for those folks who Jesus worried for the most.

As part of our justice mission, we work hard to protect the rights of free religious expression for all people, including Christians. For example, we recently defended the First Amendment rights of a Baptist minister to preach his message on public streets in southern Indiana. The ACLU intervened on behalf of a Christian valedictorian in a Michigan high school, which agreed to stop censoring religious yearbook entries, and supported the rights of Iowa students to distribute Christian literature at their school.

There are many more examples, because the ACLU is committed to preserving the constitutional guarantee of religious freedom for all. We agree with the U.S. Supreme Court's firm rulings that this freedom means that children who grow up in non-Christian homes should not be made to feel like outsiders in their own community's courthouse, legislature or public schoolhouse.

To our "Merry Christmas" correspondents and all other Hoosiers, we wish you happy holidays.

http://www.aclu.org/religion-belief/how-aclu-didnt-steal-christmas

 

[Damocles]

They are the most vocal, you don't see the Jews working so openly for a theocracy! It is the way I see it. Christians can be very offensive, and I really don't think Jesus would want his life all tied up in commercialism, but that is just the way I read him!

And thus we have the other side of the flip-coin.

 

[Damocles]

How The ACLU Didn't Steal Christmas

Who, other than you, said anything about the ACLU in this thread?

You aim at the wrong target and because of that you fail. I spoke of a very real fact, there is a coordinated effort placing billboards across the nation specifically against Nativity displays. There was no mention of the ACLU.

Nor am I specifically promoting any such display, it isn't my religion. I am however, more approving of inclusive rather than exclusive policy. Let all religions have their display, including evangelical atheists.

 

[Phantasmal]

Who, other than you, said anything about the ACLU in this thread?

You aim at the wrong target and because of that you fail. I spoke of a very real fact, there is a coordinated effort placing billboards across the nation specifically against Nativity displays. There was no mention of the ACLU.

Nor am I specifically promoting any such display, it isn't my religion. I am however, more approving of inclusive rather than exclusive policy. Let all religions have their display, including evangelical atheists.

Evangelical atheists? What would they display? The atheists I know don't even like Santa! They don't tell their kids lies or fairy tales!

 

[Damocles]

Evangelical atheists? What would they display? The atheists I know don't even like Santa! They don't tell their kids lies or fairy tales!

In Seattle (I think it was Seattle, if not Seattle somewhere up in the NW) they displayed a sign that said something about how everybody else is a fool for believing in religion and we should all be like them.

It doesn't matter what they display (so long as it isn't porn), they should have a seat at the table.

 

[Phantasmal]

Evangelical atheists? What would they display? The atheists I know don't even like Santa! They don't tell their kids lies or fairy tales!

Out of my strong curiosity, Damo, what do you do for Christmas at your house? If your don't mind sharing...We do very little for the adults, children get gifts, dinner is eaten and games played. When I was young it was Christmas Eve at Grammy's and then Midnight Mass, followed by Santa and Christmas at the house and then we went to morning Mass, also! Food for days!

 

[Damocles]

Out of my strong curiosity, Damo, what do you do for Christmas at your house? If your don't mind sharing...We do very little for the adults, children get gifts, dinner is eaten and games played. When I was young it was Christmas Eve at Grammy's and then Midnight Mass, followed by Santa and Christmas at the house and then we went to morning Mass, also! Food for days!

We go to Mom's place and follow her traditions. Since all the grandparents are Christians it gives us a chance to explain to the kids about how other people believe. We set up a tree, but we use more secular decorations. I have a Buddha for the top of the tree that I created.

And I cook. Man I love to cook.

 

[Phantasmal]

We go to Mom's place and follow her traditions. Since all the grandparents are Christians it gives us a chance to explain to the kids about how other people believe. We set up a tree, but we use more secular decorations. I have a Buddha for the top of the tree that I created.

And I cook. Man I love to cook.

It sounds like you do and I have a feeling it is good! You like to try new things, right?

Being that we were once Christian, but no longer practice, our children have taken some of those traditions, but not others, they are forming their own, which is a good thing.
My son in law teeters and feels like he should do the religious things, but doesn't.

I am truly curious how you came to be Buddhist, if you don't mind sharing, again! I love the study of religion. I am currently reading a fabulous book on Revelations and comparing it to other apocrapha, like Enoch and Baruch. Fascinating!