Tell me: Am I frickin' Dreaming?

A pyramid scheme (or pyramid scam[1]) is a non-sustainable business model that involves the exchange of money primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, usually without any product or service being delivered, and is highly illegal. Pyramid schemes have existed for at least a century. Matrix schemes use the same fraudulent non-sustainable system as a pyramid; here, the victims pay to join a waiting list for a desirable product which only a fraction of them can ever receive.
 
Because if you opt out, then we definitely won't have the money to fund the baby boomer's and they are the generation who paid for the so-called "greatest generation" to retire, and they have been paying into it all of these years, and don't deserve to get screwed, because you 20 somethings have decided it's all about you.

So you want to keep us all enslaved and taken care of by the government, told that we are not capable of planning our own retirement because you were forced into a plan that is bound to break eventually. Get rid of the 'selfish' argument, I'm entitled to take care of myself, and I think it's the right thing to do so I don't have to rely on the generation AFTER me to take care of me, because I think that would be selfish to do.
 
Of course he undermines the program, hell I don't even know if I will ever get to see the money I invested into it. With the baby boomer generation coming to age to collect, its now to a point where its much harder to support a program like that. That doesn't mean he'll get rid of it. We need to start creating policy that will protect the funds we actually put into it, or allow us to decide for ourselves. I don't see why so many people have a problem with me maybe wanting to opt-out and support my own retirement. My generation is scared as hell that we aren't going to have it at all when it comes our time.

My generation is scared as hell that we aren't going to have it at all when it comes our time


Standard rightwing fear tactics. I'm sure they were telling 20-somethings in the 1940s, that SS wouldn't be there for them when they retired.

Every couple decades they have to make minor modifications to SS to keep it fiscally sound.
 
My generation is scared as hell that we aren't going to have it at all when it comes our time


Standard rightwing fear tactics. I'm sure they were telling 20-somethings in the 1940s, that SS wouldn't be there for them when they retired.

Every couple decades they have to make minor modifications to SS to keep it fiscally sound.

I don't buy that. In fact democrats have been pointing out for the last 10-20 years that the money that is meant for SS is not being put into a fund. Al Gore's 'lockbox' comes to mind.
 
So you want to keep us all enslaved and taken care of by the government, told that we are not capable of planning our own retirement because you were forced into a plan that is bound to break eventually. Get rid of the 'selfish' argument, I'm entitled to take care of myself, and I think it's the right thing to do so I don't have to rely on the generation AFTER me to take care of me, because I think that would be selfish to do.

Old age pensions, written about by Thomas Paine in The Rights of Man, are not "enslavement". My but you libertarians are so dramatic.

It is a fall back measure, so we do not have starving seniors living on the street. It is part of building and enjoying a decent society. And all Americans are free to plan for their own retirement, for anything above and beyond the basics, which is all SS gives to you. you are encouraged to do so. Good for you! I am doing it as well.

You are not entitled to tell the baby boomers, who stepped up to the plate when it was their time, and took care of the WWII generation, to go f themselves we, as a nation are reneging on our promise to them, even though they kept their promise to the ones before them.

And you won't tell them that. I'll tell you why. 20 somethings don't vote. Seniors and the boomers do. And that's why SS privatization was dead on arrival.
 
My generation is scared as hell that we aren't going to have it at all when it comes our time


Standard rightwing fear tactics. I'm sure they were telling 20-somethings in the 1940s, that SS wouldn't be there for them when they retired.

Every couple decades they have to make minor modifications to SS to keep it fiscally sound.

Have you heard of the baby boomer generation? guess why it's called that? There will not be enough workers to sustain the massive ss rolls.
 
Now there is a defeatist action if I ever saw one. --unless of course you think that ANY democrat will suffice.

On the contrary it will be one vote away from the most likely Republican to win.

since bush and his neopack, any dem is better than a repub.
 
Social security is a pyramind scheme, the declining birth rate since the post wwII baby boom will not be sufficient to keep the base expanding, so every worker will be forced to pay a burdensone load by an elderly majority population which feels they deserve it.

PyramidSchemeMS.jpg


this is basic math.
 
Like I told ya AHZ we need lots of young legal immigrants.

Don't feel so Bad AHZ some of them will even have light pigmentation.
 
Like I told ya AHZ we need lots of young legal immigrants.

Don't feel so Bad AHZ some of them will even have light pigmentation.

Nope. still a bad solution. This influx of workers will dilute the standard of living for the americans are still working, it's not right to do this to them for old person greed and to fulfill the false promises of a fascist regime.


We need national solidarity to protect us against the enemy within, who serves another master, and is attempting to make the united states a self cannibalizing, debauched, and thus more manageable society.
 
Old age pensions, written about by Thomas Paine in The Rights of Man, are not "enslavement". My but you libertarians are so dramatic.

It is a fall back measure, so we do not have starving seniors living on the street. It is part of building and enjoying a decent society. And all Americans are free to plan for their own retirement, for anything above and beyond the basics, which is all SS gives to you. you are encouraged to do so. Good for you! I am doing it as well.

You are not entitled to tell the baby boomers, who stepped up to the plate when it was their time, and took care of the WWII generation, to go f themselves we, as a nation are reneging on our promise to them, even though they kept their promise to the ones before them.

And you won't tell them that. I'll tell you why. 20 somethings don't vote. Seniors and the boomers do. And that's why SS privatization was dead on arrival.

It wouldn't be enslavement if I felt we could support it. The problem is, the government running this program that you've been putting your SS dollars towards has spent that money! It's enslavement because you have to give them your money and they do whatever they want to with it, without your consent, and most of the time without your knowledge that they are even doing it. If it were a legit program, that we could put our money into and expect it to be there when we retire, then I would say that Thomas Paine's ideas were great and its great that we have such a program, unfortunatly that's not the case.

Darla, I honestly feel for the baby boomer generation and I don't want them to just suffer because 'I want my money'. But there will be a generation that has to suffer eventually, unless we stop spending wildly in government and protect SS for what it is! I don't trust our government to recognize that and do something, I expect them to let it go on until its gets to the point where it is un-repairable. In fact it's practically there now, and they've been predicting these problems for well over 10 years and have not done squat. Like I said, Al Gore recognized these problems in his run for presidency, and one of his issues was what the Republicans made fun of him about with his 'lockbox' statements. I was hoping to god someone would listen to him then, but they didn't. They just elected Goerge Bush and now we are F@#ed.
 
Old age pensions, written about by Thomas Paine in The Rights of Man, are not "enslavement". My but you libertarians are so dramatic.

It is a fall back measure, so we do not have starving seniors living on the street. It is part of building and enjoying a decent society. And all Americans are free to plan for their own retirement, for anything above and beyond the basics, which is all SS gives to you. you are encouraged to do so. Good for you! I am doing it as well.

You are not entitled to tell the baby boomers, who stepped up to the plate when it was their time, and took care of the WWII generation, to go f themselves we, as a nation are reneging on our promise to them, even though they kept their promise to the ones before them.

And you won't tell them that. I'll tell you why. 20 somethings don't vote. Seniors and the boomers do. And that's why SS privatization was dead on arrival.

It's enslavement when it gets to the levels of taxation which will be required to susstain it. think it through.
 
It wouldn't be enslavement if I felt we could support it. The problem is, the government running this program that you've been putting your SS dollars towards has spent that money! It's enslavement because you have to give them your money and they do whatever they want to with it, without your consent, and most of the time without your knowledge that they are even doing it. If it were a legit program, that we could put our money into and expect it to be there when we retire, then I would say that Thomas Paine's ideas were great and its great that we have such a program, unfortunatly that's not the case.

Darla, I honestly feel for the baby boomer generation and I don't want them to just suffer because 'I want my money'. But there will be a generation that has to suffer eventually, unless we stop spending wildly in government and protect SS for what it is! I don't trust our government to recognize that and do something, I expect them to let it go on until its gets to the point where it is un-repairable. In fact it's practically there now, and they've been predicting these problems for well over 10 years and have not done squat. Like I said, Al Gore recognized these problems in his run for presidency, and one of his issues was what the Republicans made fun of him about with his 'lockbox' statements. I was hoping to god someone would listen to him then, but they didn't. They just elected Goerge Bush and now we are F@#ed.


I really don't think that we are "f'd" though. It can be fixed, it always has been before. I don't believe the situation is all that dire. From what I understand, Medicare is actually in far worse trouble, and that is a crisis that is going to hit us harder, and sooner than SS. We do need polititians to address these issues, and the BS of taking funds from SS to cook the books, which has been done by both parties and is now common practice, has to stop too.
 
Well, let me know when they get here, in the meantime, I find your predictions both dire and unsupportable.

you think there will be enough money or you think they won't raise taxes on workers to pay for these lies? Which is it?
 
I really don't think that we are "f'd" though. It can be fixed, it always has been before. I don't believe the situation is all that dire. From what I understand, Medicare is actually in far worse trouble, and that is a crisis that is going to hit us harder, and sooner than SS. We do need polititians to address these issues, and the BS of taking funds from SS to cook the books, which has been done by both parties and is now common practice, has to stop too.

Exactly! I don't think either one of us are being selfish with our concerns but we are from a different generation. SS isn't going to actually hurt until the babyboomer generation reaches the age to collect. Thats when the amount of people on the SS roles will be at a much greater percentage compared to those working than what has been the case in the past. Then Social Security will start paying people less, and eventually it'll get to a point where it just does not make sense, and the generation paying into it will be told 'Looks like you get nothing'. I think it's almost to that point where it can't be fixed though because the baby-boomers are nearing retirement, and they do not have much time to invest in any system we might have to implement. If the money they invested had been saved, because there was a huge surplus, then we would be ok for at least another generation.
 
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba/ba490/
How Will We Pay for Social Security and Medicare?
Brief Analysis

No. 490

Wednesday, October 13, 2004 Download this page in PDF format

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by Thomas R. Saving, Ph.D.



Social Security and Medicare are making future promises much greater than the taxes that will be collected at current rates. Unfortunately, some policymakers seem to be intent on making the problem worse, not better. Reforms are needed that create more saving today for retirement and increase the nation’s capital stock.

Size of the Problem . The latest reports of the Trustees of Social Security and Medicare calculate the present values of the cash flow deficits for both programs — and the numbers are staggering. Social Security’s funding gap for the next 75 years stands at $5.2 trillion. Medicare’s unfunded costs come to $28 trillion, including $8.1 trillion added by the new prescription drug benefit. The combined $33.2 trillion shortfall is about three times the current size of our economy.

Bleak as this picture is, over a longer horizon the situation is worse. Consider people retiring 76 years from now. The Trustees’ 75-year calculation counts all of the payroll taxes these people will pay but ignores the benefits they expect to receive. To measure what happens after the 75th year and beyond, the Trustees now calculate the unfunded obligations over an infinite horizon. From this long-range perspective:

Social Security’s long-run cash flow deficit is $11.9 trillion, and the new prescription drug benefit will require $16.6 trillion.
The total shortfall of Medicare Part A (hospital insurance, currently paid by taxpayers) and Part B (for doctors’ services, three-fourths funded by taxpayers) is $45.3 trillion.
After payroll taxes and premium payments by the elderly, the unfunded liability of Medicare and Social Security combined totals more than $73 trillion — about seven times the size of our economy.
Making the Problem Worse . As if these numbers aren’t bad enough, there is a movement underway to place additional burdens on taxpayers by reducing retirees’ share of the cost of Medicare Part B. Under current law, seniors’ premiums are supposed to cover one-quarter of the cost of Medicare Part B, with taxpayers picking up the other three-quarters. The law also prohibits increasing the Part B premium in an amount that exceeds the value of a senior’s Social Security cost of living adjustment (COLA).

Part B premiums, which are automatically deducted from Social Security benefit checks, will rise by 17.5 percent in 2005. The standard monthly premium is $66.60, which leads to an increase of about $11.66. (The average Social Security benefit increased from $903 in December 2003 to $922 in January 2004, due to the 2.1 percent COLA.)

In anticipation of a senior backlash, some politicians are seizing the opportunity for demagoguery. Some in Congress want to delay the premium increase for a year. A bill by Sens. Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.) and Debbie Stabenow (D-Mich.) (S. 2780) would limit the increase in the Part B premium for 2005, but allow premiums to return to where they otherwise would have been in 2006. In other words, seniors will be hit with a big premium increase a year later than under current law. Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle (D-S.D.) introduced a bill (S. 2754) in July 2004 that would limit future increases in monthly premiums for Medicare Part B and Part D (the new prescription drug benefit) to one-fourth of any senior’s Social Security COLA. If either of these proposals were passed into law, seniors would bear a declining share of the program’s cost, while Medicare’s cost to taxpayers would increase. The Kennedy-Stabenow proposal — if continued indefinitely — would create a new unfunded liability totaling $6 trillion, more than half the size of Social Security’s unfunded liability! Under the Daschle bill, seniors’ share of the costs of Parts B and D would decline to 20 percent over the next 20 years from approximately 25 percent today.



Shortfalls Began This Year . Some argue that the financial problems of elderly entitlements will not arise until the distant future. In reality, we are dealing with those burdens right now. This year, for the first time in recent memory, Social Security and Medicare combined will spend more than the programs take in. This will require a transfer from the Treasury of 3.6 percent of federal income tax receipts. That figure will grow rapidly:

In just 15 years, in the early stages of the baby boomers’ retirement, we will be transferring more than 25 percent of federal income tax revenues to cover the funding needs of Social Security and Medicare.
By 2030, if current laws remain unchanged, more than half of all federal income tax revenues will be required to pay projected benefits.
By 2040, the figure will be two-thirds, and by 2069, funding shortfalls will exhaust all federal income tax revenues. [See the figure.]

We have two clear choices: We must either set aside resources to provide for the promises we keep making to seniors, or we must take away some of those promises. Currently the government collects more Social Security taxes than it needs to pay benefits, credits the excess amount to the Trust fund, then spends the money on other government projects. Would it not be wiser to set aside funds to pay promised benefits by investing them in real market assets?

New Savings Are Needed . It is time to face reality. Current elderly entitlement programs saddle the next generation of workers with increasing implicit debts. We must introduce reforms that capture the earning potential of the baby-boom generation before they escape into retirement and leave the young with a burden that cannot be paid. Unless we increase our level of saving now, we will leave our children and grandchildren strapped with escalating tax rates.

Some have suggested that we can wait and raise taxes or lower benefits when the cash flow crisis arrives, but this is not a problem that can be solved by incremental tweaking. The Trustees forecast enormous future taxes, and cuts that will hurt retirees who depend on benefits. Others have argued that economic growth will ease future taxpayer burden. But the Trustees take into account projected growth in the nation’s output. If output rises more rapidly than they project, benefits will also rise proportionally.

Conclusion . Due to changing demographics and rising medical costs, the share of the nation’s output consumed by the elderly will rise. It is this rising economic share (financed in large part by Social Security and Medicare transfers) that will drive a growing tax burden. Saving more now for retirement reduces the burden on future taxpayers while at the same time increasing the nation’s capacity to produce.

This generation of workers faces a clear choice. Will they tighten their belts a bit and save more? Or will they ask their children and grandchildren to choose between reneging on promises to retirees, going without government services or paying exorbitant tax rates?
 
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