The abortion issue...

Hahaha, Einstein said...

"if you support the legalization of something, you matter of factly condone and support it!"

Do you condone and support divorce? Do you think it should be illegal?
 
There are lots of things I dont support or condone that I think should be legal. I dont support or condone devil worship, but I think it should be legal. I dont support or condone tatoos, but I think they should be legal. I dont support or condone people too young to deal with it having sex, but I think it should be legal. I dont support or condone bungee cord jumping but I think it should be legal. I dont support or condone, breast augmentation surgery but I dont think it should be illegal. I dont support or condone living at home with your parents and having them support you after you are 18, but I dont think it should be illegal... The list goes on and on!
 
Originally Posted by Dixie
So a human fetus should have dominion over their body? I agree!

No clue what you're talking about there.

Dominion over ones body, that's what I was talking about! I thought we were on the same page there! A living viable human being should have dominion over their bodies, therefore, a human fetus should be afforded this right as well, it is a human being at the earliest developmental stage. So, can we agree that, abortion should only be allowed when the fetus is in agreement with the woman? Otherwise, you seem to be disregarding the fetuses right to dominion over its own body, no?

Well telling someone what they can and can't do with their bodies isn't a viable alternative either.

I agree, but allowing people to kill other people with regard to what they do with their bodies, is not a viable alternative either. If abortion didn't involve another person's body, I would completely agree with your argument, however, this simply is not the case. You have the right to do anything you like with your body, as long as it doesn't harm other human beings.

As far as I know people/citizens don't require the host body of another human being to live.

To the contrary, infants require the constant attention of another human being to live. They simply could not survive more than a few days without this. Should we make infanticide legal?
 
Dixie do you support and condone divorce?
Dixie do you support and condone the ideals of the Democratic party?
Dixie do you support and condone adultry?
Dixie do you support and condone pre-maritial sex?
 
Dixie are you standing by your claim that if you dont want something to be illegal you therefor support and condone it?
 
Do you condone and support divorce? Do you think it should be illegal?

Yes, I condone and support divorce in certain circumstances, and think it should remain a legal alternative. If divorces resulted in the deaths of innocent human beings, I would not support or condone divorces under any circumstance. I am pro-life, you know?

I also support the legalization of tattoos, breast augmentation, and living at home with your parents after age 18. As long as it doesn't involve the killing of innocent human life, or effect another persons right to live, or further corrupt the morality of society in general, I pretty much support it being legal. I have very few exceptions to this in my personal views, I am pro-life.
 
Jarod said:
Dixie are you standing by your claim that if you dont want something to be illegal you therefor support and condone it?
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I thought you said we were talking specifically about abortion, Jarhead? Which is it? Are we talking about everything else now? I can't keep up!

Here... this is my view... I don't support or condone the taking of innocent life. I don't think it should be legal, and I oppose it completely. I don't care what people do, as long as they aren't killing or harming others, or violating someone else's rights by their actions.
 
Dixie said:
Do you condone and support divorce? Do you think it should be illegal?

Yes, I condone and support divorce in certain circumstances, and think it should remain a legal alternative. If divorces resulted in the deaths of innocent human beings, I would not support or condone divorces under any circumstance. I am pro-life, you know?

I also support the legalization of tattoos, breast augmentation, and living at home with your parents after age 18. As long as it doesn't involve the killing of innocent human life, or effect another persons right to live, or further corrupt the morality of society in general, I pretty much support it being legal. I have very few exceptions to this in my personal views, I am pro-life.
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You support it being legal, but do you support and condone these things? There is a difference, maybe its too supple for you to see.
 
Dixie said:
I thought you said we were talking specifically about abortion, Jarhead? Which is it? Are we talking about everything else now? I can't keep up!

Here... this is my view... I don't support or condone the taking of innocent life. I don't think it should be legal, and I oppose it completely. I don't care what people do, as long as they aren't killing or harming others, or violating someone else's rights by their actions.
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I understand your stance, you dont support or condone abortion AND you are for it being illegal...

But the point is that you can not support or condone abortion and still think it should be legal. You are mixing argumetns and spinning out of control on this but it comes down to these basic facts...

Just because you think people should be left to make up there own minds about something... does not mean you support or condone it!
 
There are lots of things I dont support or condone that I think should be legal.

Me too, but killing innocent people isn't one of them, because I am pro-life.

As I said, I can understand an argument regarding rape, incest, or the mother's life, not because I think this justifies killing another human being, but because there is some tangible argument for the rights of the individual there, whether it is morally right or wrong. I would still oppose the abortion in those cases, but I would make this the only legal exception, because I believe society should not have to always conform to my strict moral viewpoints. Abortion on demand, for the sake of vanity, convenience, or birth control, is so morally reprehensible, and I can't condone or support it by claiming that women have some "right" they don't have. I can allow that they might have such a claim to a right in rare cases, or at least they can pose a reasonable argument for such a right, but that is as far as I can go with my objectivity on this issue. Some may call this a hypocritical view, I call it tolerance and moderation.

The same holds true for my stance on the death penalty and euthanasia. In the rarest of situations, maybe the argument is relevant, maybe a case can be made for taking of human life, perhaps it can be somewhat justifiable in certain circumstances. I can't judge individual circumstances, only the reasoning and rationales behind the choices. I don't support or condone killing people, under any circumstance, or for any reason, however, rationality dictates there is an exception to every rule, and objectivity requires understanding this.
 
You support it being legal, but do you support and condone these things?

If you support something being legal, you effectively support and condone it. There is no way for it to be anything else, that is my point to you! If you support and condone abortion being legal, you can't claim you oppose it. This flies in the face of common sense and logic, and nothing you are ever going to say will change that.

No matter what we are discussing, you can't take both a 'pro' and 'anti' stand on it! You can't say... Guns should be legal, but no one should own them. You can't say... Drugs should be legal, but no one should use them. You can't say... Abortions should be legal, but no one should get them.... Homicide is wrong, but you shouldn't be arrested for it.... Drunk driving is bad, but they shouldn't lock you up and take your drivers license for it... Liberals are idiots, but we should let them run the country! It's just a contradiction in terms, and talking out of both sides of your mouth.
 
Dixie said:
There are lots of things I dont support or condone that I think should be legal.

Me too, but killing innocent people isn't one of them, because I am pro-life.

As I said, I can understand an argument regarding rape, incest, or the mother's life, not because I think this justifies killing another human being, but because there is some tangible argument for the rights of the individual there, whether it is morally right or wrong. I would still oppose the abortion in those cases, but I would make this the only legal exception, because I believe society should not have to always conform to my strict moral viewpoints. Abortion on demand, for the sake of vanity, convenience, or birth control, is so morally reprehensible, and I can't condone or support it by claiming that women have some "right" they don't have. I can allow that they might have such a claim to a right in rare cases, or at least they can pose a reasonable argument for such a right, but that is as far as I can go with my objectivity on this issue. Some may call this a hypocritical view, I call it tolerance and moderation.

The same holds true for my stance on the death penalty and euthanasia. In the rarest of situations, maybe the argument is relevant, maybe a case can be made for taking of human life, perhaps it can be somewhat justifiable in certain circumstances. I can't judge individual circumstances, only the reasoning and rationales behind the choices. I don't support or condone killing people, under any circumstance, or for any reason, however, rationality dictates there is an exception to every rule, and objectivity requires understanding this.
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You are mixing it up again. My point it that just because I think abortion should be legal, does not prohibit me, by the laws of logic from being Pro-Life, because I still dont support or condone abortion. The term "Pro-Life" as used to describe a person as being against legal abortion is seriously flawed.
 
You are mixing it up again. My point it that just because I think abortion should be legal, does not prohibit me, by the laws of logic from being Pro-Life, because I still dont support or condone abortion. The term "Pro-Life" as used to describe a person as being against legal abortion is seriously flawed.

I am mixing it up because that is what you are doing. It seems you want to hold me to a certain standard, while you defy the same rule. You can't do that! If we are talking about "abortion" and nothing else, you either approve of it, or you don't approve of it, you can't do both.

Me claiming to be Pro-choice, is the exact same thing as you claiming to be Pro-life! There is no difference! It's the exact same argument both ways! Just because I oppose the intentional killing of innocent human beings, doesn't mean I am not "pro-choice" at all! To claim that I am "anti-choice" is the same as me claiming you are "anti-life". I am as much "pro-choice" as you are "pro-life" and my point is well made here. I don't seek to tell women what to do with their bodies, so long as another human life is not affected, I couldn't care less what they do, and they have every right to make whatever choices they wish! I think every woman should have the right to decide whether to engage in unprotected sex or not, that is their inherent human right to decide, and I don't ever want a law or government to interfere with that right, I am extremely 'pro-choice' in that regard! I want every woman to have the right to choose which birth control method they wish, or to choose not to use any birth control, that is their inherent right, and I would never support a law telling them which choice to make, I am again, extremely 'pro-choice' here! I am also in support of allowing the human fetus to have the same human rights as you and I, because they are human beings just like you and I, and they should have a choice of whether to live or die, just like you and I have this right to life, so again, I am extremely 'pro-choice' in this regard. I am even okay with abortion on demand for any reason, given all three parties involved, are in complete agreement with the procedure, but they should all have a voice and a choice in the matter, so again... very 'pro-choice' in that regard.

I am not 'pro-choice' when it comes to some self-ordained mythical "right" to kill innocent people, I don't believe we have that choice, nor should it be a choice we are allowed to make, unless there are extreme mitigating circumstances involved. In those rare cases, I believe people should have the right to make their case at least, whether they should be allowed to kill an innocent human being, is a matter of circumstance... so again, I am 'pro-choice' in these rare cases.
 
Jarod said:
You are mixing it up again. My point it that just because I think abortion should be legal, does not prohibit me, by the laws of logic from being Pro-Life, because I still dont support or condone abortion. The term "Pro-Life" as used to describe a person as being against legal abortion is seriously flawed.
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The question is whether one feels the need to impose on other people a judgment as to whether a fetus has legal rights or not. That's the only real issue, since we've already determined that few people are going to be convinced one way or the other on the underlying question: you either think a 10 week fetus has legal rights or you don't.

As far as legislation is concerned, however, there is one fact that simply can't be gotten around. The pro-choice position does not impose a particular interpretation on anyone. The anti-choice position does.

The position that if you don't support criminalizing something you must necessarily be in favor of that behavior is absurd on its face. If we had a law against every single unacceptable behavior the legal codes would be 10 times worse than they already are.
 
The term "Pro-Life" as used to describe a person as being against legal abortion is seriously flawed........Those whose defining cherastic is that they want abortion to be illegal should not be called "pro-life" even though they may be...
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You refuted your own point here, sorry!
 
Einstein said...
"I am mixing it up because that is what you are doing. It seems you want to hold me to a certain standard, while you defy the same rule. You can't do that! If we are talking about "abortion" and nothing else, you either approve of it, or you don't approve of it, you can't do both. "

_____

I don not approve of abortion, but I dont think it should be illegal.
 
Dixie said:
You are mixing it up again. My point it that just because I think abortion should be legal, does not prohibit me, by the laws of logic from being Pro-Life, because I still dont support or condone abortion. The term "Pro-Life" as used to describe a person as being against legal abortion is seriously flawed.

I am mixing it up because that is what you are doing. It seems you want to hold me to a certain standard, while you defy the same rule. You can't do that! If we are talking about "abortion" and nothing else, you either approve of it, or you don't approve of it, you can't do both.

Me claiming to be Pro-choice, is the exact same thing as you claiming to be Pro-life! There is no difference! It's the exact same argument both ways! Just because I oppose the intentional killing of innocent human beings, doesn't mean I am not "pro-choice" at all! To claim that I am "anti-choice" is the same as me claiming you are "anti-life". I am as much "pro-choice" as you are "pro-life" and my point is well made here. I don't seek to tell women what to do with their bodies, so long as another human life is not affected, I couldn't care less what they do, and they have every right to make whatever choices they wish! I think every woman should have the right to decide whether to engage in unprotected sex or not, that is their inherent human right to decide, and I don't ever want a law or government to interfere with that right, I am extremely 'pro-choice' in that regard! I want every woman to have the right to choose which birth control method they wish, or to choose not to use any birth control, that is their inherent right, and I would never support a law telling them which choice to make, I am again, extremely 'pro-choice' here! I am also in support of allowing the human fetus to have the same human rights as you and I, because they are human beings just like you and I, and they should have a choice of whether to live or die, just like you and I have this right to life, so again, I am extremely 'pro-choice' in this regard. I am even okay with abortion on demand for any reason, given all three parties involved, are in complete agreement with the procedure, but they should all have a voice and a choice in the matter, so again... very 'pro-choice' in that regard.

I am not 'pro-choice' when it comes to some self-ordained mythical "right" to kill innocent people, I don't believe we have that choice, nor should it be a choice we are allowed to make, unless there are extreme mitigating circumstances involved. In those rare cases, I believe people should have the right to make their case at least, whether they should be allowed to kill an innocent human being, is a matter of circumstance... so again, I am 'pro-choice' in these rare cases.
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When it comes to Abortion you are anti-choice... You want the government to take that choice away from women.

I am pro-life... I would never support the government forcing women to have abortions.
 
Dixie said:
You refuted your own point here, sorry!
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No I did not. THey may be pro-life... but that does not define the fact that they are for making abortion illegal.

One can be against abortion but nor for making it illegal. There are plenty of things I am against that I dont want the government to regulate.
 
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