The Depravity of Mankind
- Thread starter Augustine
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uscitizen
Villified User
sounds just like the pentecostal church I grew up in. All other "christians" except them were wrong and not going to heaven.
Catholics for idol worship and gambling.
Methodists for drinking.
Baptists for Dancing, etc....
Then there are churches who handle poisionous snakes as a test of faith.
Those who ban all musical instruments....
But somehow each church thinks they have the right of it
Catholics for idol worship and gambling.
Methodists for drinking.
Baptists for Dancing, etc....
Then there are churches who handle poisionous snakes as a test of faith.
Those who ban all musical instruments....
But somehow each church thinks they have the right of it
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
LOL. That's funny. I always thought the Baptist church I went to was extreme as it could get. The modern Pentecostal church, however, has finally made amends with the modernists, while the Southern Baptist Convention and the related Baptist organizations have not.
I went to a MISSIONARY Baptist church, which is like the Southern Baptists conventions redheaded stepchild. They were the radicals who were too radical for the radicals. Most Mississippi Baptist churches (Missionary or SBC) ban drinking even today. But dig into your brain and think about it... have you ever actually SEEN a sober Baptist? I thought not. Very few practice what they preach, they just want to push it on others.
I went to a MISSIONARY Baptist church, which is like the Southern Baptists conventions redheaded stepchild. They were the radicals who were too radical for the radicals. Most Mississippi Baptist churches (Missionary or SBC) ban drinking even today. But dig into your brain and think about it... have you ever actually SEEN a sober Baptist? I thought not. Very few practice what they preach, they just want to push it on others.
Augustine
New member
What I reject is exclusive priesthood.
In Mormonism, there are two lines of priesthood reserved for "worthy males." In Catholicism, only the men who remain unmarried may become priests. None of this is Biblical, as I am certain you will agree. The Church (as a whole) is the priesthood of Jesus Christ. This is evident in scripture.
The Pope is the Antichrist in the church. He usurps the proper place of Jesus Christ, who is the Head and High Priest of the Church. The priesthood of Catholicism originated in the mystery cult of ancient Babylon. It is invented by the prince of lies, the Devil himself.
Augustine
New member
United Pentecostal Church?
Few Catholics will be saved, this is true.
Most of the United Methodists are probably going to Hell.
Free Methodists are quite Biblical, however.
Their interpretation of scripture is very much out of context. Quite sad.
Church of Christ (Campbellites) is a cult.
But somehow each church thinks they have the right of it
I do not judge whether someone is going to Heaven or Hell according to their denomination. However, believers are likely to flee from the corrupt denominations, such as the United Church of Christ (which actually belongs to the Devil). Why would someone who has seen the light want to walk in darkness? Roman Catholicism, the apostate protestant churches, Unitarian-Universalist, etc... all synagogues of Satan.
It also says that in Heaven the church created by James would be mirrored. Thus the Catholic Church headed by the first Pope. So you are saying that those verses of the bible are suddenly wrong? What exactly do you think was meant by that one?
So you don't remember two verses where first he tells him that he is the "rock" * on which he will build his church, and this verse:
Specifically stating what he will do here will, whether binding* or loosing*, will be mirrored in heaven. It is pretty clear that what he made was done there too. Creating the Church of Rome is a pretty strong "binding" action. That too would be bound in heaven.
Also, the keys to heaven were saved for the second in command. Jesus promises those keys to Peter the "rock" whom he promises that which he does here, will be done also in heaven.
* rock had a special significance back then, the "rock" was the foundation on which a community was built.
*binding - A rabbinic act declaring an act forbidden or excommunicating somebody for a serious crime. *"loosing" was, of course, the opposite of that act, declaring something permissable or reconciling the excommunicated.
Litmus
Verified User
This part of the bible is pure churchy propaganda. jesus's message is not this. He was against tyrannical priestly structures.
Jeez, I step away for half a day and you're here defending theocracy.
Geez. Only you could take a question and make it into "defending" something.
Chicken Little, you are a fun one, but largely inaccurate in almost anything you post. Especially when you attempt desperately to assign some sort of meaning that isn't there to them.
Litmus
Verified User
You were defending something.
You are wishing for fishes there, grab a pole and seek them out where they are.
And what makes you the end-all Wisdom on such conjecture? How would you know?
Anyway the question was for somebody, who while younger than you, has a larger knowledge of the religion. Let's see if he seeks out the silly pat answers on the websites out there for him to seek, or if he has some original thought on the issue.
Augustine
New member
Damocles,
You said James, which is why I was confused. The words of Christ in this instance are directed toward the Apostle Peter. Your interpretation is the Catholic interpretation; however, in the Greek it is an improper interpretation, as I intended to demonstrate. Setting aside verse 19 for one moment, I would like to address the verse 18, which says, "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." The verse may be accurately broken down into two distinct parts: "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter," followed by, "and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Why? For two reasons. One, the passage must be read in context with Matthew 16:16, in which Peter says, "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Peter is affirming that Jesus is the Christ. In Matthew 16:17-18, Jesus replies, "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter (petros), and upon this rock (PETRA) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Christ is not saying that the Church will be founded on Peter. 'Petros' in the Greek, from which 'Peter' is translated, is but a small stone or pebble. But PETRA is a large, immovable stone! Thus, when Christ says the Church is to be built on Petra, He is speaking of Himself, the Chief Cornerstone.
16:18 καγω δε σοι λεγω οτι συ ει πετρος (PETROS) και επι ταυτη τη πετρα (PETRA) οικοδομησω μου την εκκλησιαν και πυλαι αδου ου κατισχυσουσιν αυτης. The authority claimed by the Pope is utterly brought to ruin in the proper reading of those simple, yet profound words! The Pope is the Antichrist in the Church, that man of sin, that son of perdition!
Ephesians 2:19-22 says, Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Praise God that the Church was not built upon the weak flesh and bones of men, but upon the Rock of Ages: Jesus Christ! When reading the verse 19 in this context, it is simple to grasp, but time-consuming to explain. I would simply encourage you to take a look at the following article:
http://www.crivoice.org/bindloose.html
You said James, which is why I was confused. The words of Christ in this instance are directed toward the Apostle Peter. Your interpretation is the Catholic interpretation; however, in the Greek it is an improper interpretation, as I intended to demonstrate. Setting aside verse 19 for one moment, I would like to address the verse 18, which says, "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." The verse may be accurately broken down into two distinct parts: "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter," followed by, "and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Why? For two reasons. One, the passage must be read in context with Matthew 16:16, in which Peter says, "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Peter is affirming that Jesus is the Christ. In Matthew 16:17-18, Jesus replies, "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter (petros), and upon this rock (PETRA) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Christ is not saying that the Church will be founded on Peter. 'Petros' in the Greek, from which 'Peter' is translated, is but a small stone or pebble. But PETRA is a large, immovable stone! Thus, when Christ says the Church is to be built on Petra, He is speaking of Himself, the Chief Cornerstone.
16:18 καγω δε σοι λεγω οτι συ ει πετρος (PETROS) και επι ταυτη τη πετρα (PETRA) οικοδομησω μου την εκκλησιαν και πυλαι αδου ου κατισχυσουσιν αυτης. The authority claimed by the Pope is utterly brought to ruin in the proper reading of those simple, yet profound words! The Pope is the Antichrist in the Church, that man of sin, that son of perdition!
Ephesians 2:19-22 says, Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Praise God that the Church was not built upon the weak flesh and bones of men, but upon the Rock of Ages: Jesus Christ! When reading the verse 19 in this context, it is simple to grasp, but time-consuming to explain. I would simply encourage you to take a look at the following article:
http://www.crivoice.org/bindloose.html
Litmus
Verified User
Yes. Let's see, indeed.
Augustine
New member
Lastly, I think it is important to note that Matthew 16:18 must be read in context with other parts of the Bible. Colossians 1:18, Ephesians 5:23, and many other verses identify Jesus Christ as the head of the Church. This is the authority wrongly claimed by the Roman antichrist.
You quoted a Greek translation, Jesus spoke in Aramaic. The translation used the masculine form of the word to refer to Peter, and the feminine to refer to the church because Peter is a masculine word and church is feminine in Greek. This does not allude to the meaning that Christ was giving, it was an interpretation failure. The word rock in Aramaic is like English, no masculine or feminine connotations. And the meaning of the "rock" was already previously shown in importance in an earlier post.
To attempt to say that Greek was the originality of it is simply disingenuous manipulations.
And BTW - He used the websites I was speaking of. This is not a very original answer at all.
As does Christ when he speaks of giving Peter the keys to heaven. That is set for the second in command. The idea that because there is one higher than Peter that he could not be Pope is plain silly. The Pope never claims to be God himself.