More blind guesses by you.
The Historicity of Jesus Christ
- Thread starter Alter2Ego
- Start date
Lao Tse
Verified User
Jesus's teaching about the golden rule and empathy are morally perfect.
I'm looking at it from the perspective of an armchair historian.
No historical Jesus, no Christianity.
The influence of Christianity on western civilization and western history in terms of values, culture, politics, art, ethics, literature, even science and literacy is incalculable. One doesn't' even have to accept Jesus as a deity to accept that fact. Our language, values, ethics, history are pregnant with the stories, parables, ethics, sermons, values expressed in the New Testament, even for those who call themselves atheists or agnostics.
The trajectory of western civilization is an arc that stretches back to the historical Jesus of Nazareth.
Only Christians believe that.
And may I ask why it is important?
If I found out tomorrow that Pythagoras was wholly made up it wouldn't change my world one whit so long as his TEACHINGS existed.
Sure I'll admit it would be a strange feeling to find out someone you THOUGHT existed didn't, but really at the end of the day what's the important bit?
And don't get me wrong (although you WILL lie about it) I can see how cool it is that there was a real guy named Jesus who had a huge mythology rise up around him about miracles and rising from the dead.
I just don't think it is absolutely NECESSARY that that be the case.
That's all I've ever said.
Anyone who has studied the history of western civilization believes that.
Only a Christian like yourself believes that. Quit this bullshit that you speak for the "history of western civilization." You are just a Christian zealot.
More accurate, in my opinion, to say, no Paul...no Christianity. Jesus did not sell Christianity. Paul, and to a lesser extent, Peter sold it. Without them...it becomes like Jupiter, Zeus, Thor, etc.
I am willing to agree, although I think most of the influences on architecture, art, laws, politics...are more heavily influenced by ancient Greece and Rome. (Particularly Rome) The Roman empire made incredible strides in law, politics, art, and architecture during a 600 year period from its founding until about the time that Christianity came to exert significant influence over it. At that point, it stopped its progression and regressed to a point where the next 800 years came to be know to history as The Dark Ages. Almost no progress at all.
I agree with the provisions mentioned above.
I agree conditionally. My disagreement comments above have to be dealt with.
Even the preeminent agnostic/atheist religious scholar Bart Erhman will say that the influence of Christianity on western civilization is incalculable.
Even the famous militant atheist Richard Dawkins calls himself a 'cultural Christian', because his ethos, his values, and his cultural milieu can be traced directly to Christianity.
Well, there you're wrong. Many religions were founded upon a myth. Take the Mormons. We all kinda know it is 100% made up. But it still has a REAL following of people who REALLY BELIEVE IT.
Yes there was a faith that rose up around one particular itinernant apocalyptic teacher which was quite a common site at the time in Palestine. It is kind of interesting why THIS one took hold and not some other.
A valid and interesting avenue of exploration.
And it certainly adds to the evidence that there must be SOME kernel of truth. The bare minimum would be a physical real Jesus. But, again, faiths are made up all the time across history.
But it's quite something else to suggest MORE beyond that.
Agreed. Doesn't mean the religion is ipso facto "true". It may mean that there was a literal Jesus. But then again it may not even be necessary.
But you beat me up because I"m OK with that. Why do you beat me up when I'm in agreement with you?
Pretty flowery language there, Wikipedia Scholar.
Then why do you treat those teachings like they are a joke? You seem to HATE and DESPISE Christ's teachings based on how you comport yourself on here.
Thus sayet the WIKIPEDIA SCHOLAR!
I don't know who that is and don't care.
I do not care what Dawkins believes.
Actually Cypress, it doesn't really. But thanks for the confession.
Mason 22
Verified User
Actually the Motherfucker was Cain! Now you know who Miss Cain was!
Yes, I posted earlier that Rome, Athens, and Jesus are the triad of western civilization.
Roman law and Roman arhitecture are a touchstone for the west.
Paul would not have bothered to evangelize to the gentiles without the historical Jesus, or his visions of Jesus. He was actually a Pharisee Jew who opporessed the Christianized Jews before his vision.
The only person on this forum who appears to disagree with you on this point is @Hume.
Hume seems to hate Christianity almost as much as you hate the teachings of Jesus.
Let's go with that for a moment. Paul arguably is the father of Christianity in the form we all know it. And Paul NEVER MET JESUS.
Look at your sentence there: he had a VISION on the Road to Damascus. A VISION. Now presumably that kicked it all off for Paul.
If Paul had come to Christianity through his meetings with the Jerusalem Church I would be more willing to assume that a physical Jesus was one step closer to the ORIGIN of the faith.
But given the CENTRALITY of the Damascene Vision to the whole story of Paul I'm going to say that visions don't require a physical analogue. That's kind of why they are called "visions"
What does morality have to do with right and wrong when it is defining good and evil social compliance to will of the species pretending to be the chosen people.
This is a clever gambit you are trying. Now you START your posts like you are saying something interesting or worth reading
Then you start with the autocomplete shit.
Are you housebound? I can't figure out why this shit entertains you so much. I can see doing it a couple times, maybe 3 at which point it would get boring for a fully functional adult.
But you keep going on and on and on.
Maybe you can PM me if you want to explain why this is entertaining and you don't want to drop the facade. I am GENUINELY curious. I don't see many people who demonstrate what entertainment looks like the brain damaged.
THE TRIAD of Western Civilization! That sounds amazingly erudite!
OOOoooOOooooo I'm all aquiver! The TOUCHSTONE for the West. Wow.
Gosh, Cypress, I was wrong: you are super deep and insightful.
Ironically the people who supposedly HUNG OUT WITH THE REAL JESUS DISAGREED WITH PAUL on proselytizing to the Gentiles.
Woah! That's wild.