The Historicity of Jesus Christ

The witnesses to Jesus's existence and ministry were almost entirely Jewish. We know most Jewish scholars would destroy any evidence of his existence whenever they found it, it's a frequent practice with them in those days, denying anything outside their post-Ezra cult as not existing. But, we have the 4 Gospels and Paul, all Jewish or a disciple of educated Jews in Luke's case, and some scholars hold the opinion that Luke was also a Jew. Then there are the followers, numbering in the thousands and known to already exist in those years and soon after his death.

Even Bart Ehrman, an oft cited critic of Christianity, wrote a book proving he was a real person.


DArrell Bock has written extensively on the evidence that the orthodoxy regarding the NT books are indeed valid and can be trusted, as opposed to the Gnostic rubbish and the silly nonsense that Constantine rewrote a lot of stuff in the 4th Century.


See also Joachim Jeremia's excellent econmic and social history Jerusalem In The Time Of Jesus, which extensively verifies that NT texts are indeed contemporary writings and there are no anachronisms in them, making it impossible for them to have been in some later century. He extensively footnotes the book and used entirely Jewish sources.


AS for whether he was a 'divine' son of God or not isn't relevant to the issue of whether he really existed or not; the fact is he did indeed exist, and was a well educated rabbi to boot..
 
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The witnesses to Jesus's existence and ministry were almost entirely Jewish. We know most Jewish scholars would destroy any evidence of his existence whenever they found it, it's a frequent practice with them in those days, denying anything outside their post-Ezra cult as not existing. But, we have the 4 Gospels and Paul, all Jewish or a disciple of educated Jews in Luke's case, and some scholars hold the opinion that Luke was also a Jew. Then there are the followers, numbering in the thousands and known to already exist in those years and soon after his death.

Even Bart Ehrman, an oft cited critic of Christianity, wrote a book proving he was a real person.


NOT PROVE.

He gave a case for the reality of Jesus' existence.

Some people buy it...some do not.

DArrell Bock has written extensively on the evidence that the orthodoxy regarding the NT books are indeed valid and can be trusted, as opposed to the Gnostic rubbish and the silly nonsense that Constantine rewrote a lot of stuff in the 4th Century.

You mean that Jesus walked on water? As opposed to that Gnostic rubbish and silly nonsense?

Okay.

AS for whether he was a 'divine' or not isn't relevant to the issue of whether he really existed or not

Correct. Here...we agree.

...the fact is he did indeed exist...

That is an interesting blind guess. I wonder if it is correct.


...and was a well educated rabbi to boot..
Now you are really stretching things.
 
NOT PROVE.

He gave a case for the reality of Jesus' existence.

Some people buy it...some do not.



You mean that Jesus walked on water? As opposed to that Gnostic rubbish and silly nonsense?

Okay.



Correct. Here...we agree.



That is an interesting blind guess. I wonder if it is correct.



Now you are really stretching things.
Blind guesses.
 
I didn't say anything about what Herodutus said the Egyptians told him. I focused on his histories of the Greco Persian wars, which is our best surviving account of those wars.

Hey, WikiScholar, LOL. I was just makin' a joke. Granted a subtle one you have yet to figure out but a joke nonetheless.

Lighten up, Francis.

Do try to be less of a loser. If you can. I know it's a bit late in the game for you but give it a shot now.
 
Big production of vocabulary those two words "Cognitive dissonance" being specifically philosophical mantra misleading ancestral brains every generation alive today. That is mind over matter philosophy, not adapting as displaced instinctive awareness.

Cognitive dissonance is a psychological state that occurs when someone's beliefs or actions conflict with each other, causing a feeling of discomfort or tension. The theory suggests that this tension motivates people to change their attitudes or behaviors to make their thoughts and actions more consistent.

Every reality contradicts genetics leaving ancestors eternally separated in plain sight daily as all reproductions native to this universal location are specific compounding combinations of chromosomes changing form daily since arriving their original fertilized cell inception to conceiving another generation gap of the 8.14 billion lifetimes living this rotation of the planet.

Do a little sole research on how genetics works in series parallel space with specific ancestries living day to day never staying the same total sum since inception of original 16 great great grandparents 2nd generation of 8 great grandparents, 3rd generation of 4 grandparents, 4th generation 2 parenting 5th wave of ancestral lineage results of each great great grandchild being a combination of 83.75% the chromosomes of their previous 30 ancestors. It is a universal constant.

the factual remaining 6.25% is the original combination of each 5th generation 6 to extinction of the ancestral lineage. There were basically 5 types of ancestral lineages in this atmosphere multiple that by upto 5 generation gaps living daily in same family tree with all its generation gaps combined to each lineage of siblings that did become parents.

Most intellectual minds cannot see the forest for the metaphors of family trees with limbs, branches, twigs, leaves every season.
Reads more like an actuary calculation which results in pseudoscience of sociopsychopathilogical homicidal human farming........
 
Reads more like an actuary calculation which results in pseudoscience of sociopsychopathilogical homicidal human farming........
Just because you reinterpreted what I say, doesn't change what I said. However it does reflect on where you want people to go following your suggestions I am not accurate.
 
Just because you reinterpreted what I say, doesn't change what I said. However it does reflect on where you want people to go following your suggestions I am not accurate.
What you said wasn't changed what so ever; just suggested that it's more of an actuary calculation for a not so master race to justify it's Nazi security accuracy......
 
What you said wasn't changed what so ever; just suggested that it's more of an actuary calculation for a not so master race to justify it's Nazi security accuracy......
Interpreting things differently doesn't change what was said or written, it suggests there are other meanings possible since there are a minimum of 1,064 methods used daily to keep great great grandchildren honoring their previous 4 generation gaps forward until they become 1 of 16 great great grandparents themselves saving family traditions of ignoring now is eternity.
 
Historians/scholars are generally close to unanimous in their agreement that Jesus was an actual human who lived on the earth at one point.
 
Historians/scholars are generally close to unanimous in their agreement that Jesus was an actual human who lived on the earth at one point.
So what? What aren't they(historians and scholars) telling everyone about the whole storyline?
When history directs tomorrow's outcomes today, next rotation called tomorrow evolved into total sum left today be it midnight to noon or noon to midnight. Same way winter and summer on the same day always has the equator separating two sets of temperate zones 24/7. 4 seasons operate 8 times a year.


end of the day is dusk, end of night is dawn, the two sides will never be on the same side the surface of the planet rotates between daily where evolving never leaves anything the same before and after each rotation living here now.
 
Historians/scholars are generally close to unanimous in their agreement that Jesus was an actual human who lived on the earth at one point.
Right.
Jesus is more well-attested in writing than Socrates, the Buddha, Confucious, or than the emperor Xerxes of the Persian empire, and the emperor Ashoka of the Mauryan empire of India. Jesus is hands down the most well attested Palestinian Jew of the first century.

Whether or not he was divine is not germane to the topic the thread raised.
 
We would have to basically almost abandon the field of ancient history as an academic discipline if we always required real-time eyewitness statements for anything to be credible.
False. It's a good thing that we don't have you making such determinations.
 
So what? What aren't they(historians and scholars) telling everyone about the whole storyline?
When history directs tomorrow's outcomes today, next rotation called tomorrow evolved into total sum left today be it midnight to noon or noon to midnight. Same way winter and summer on the same day always has the equator separating two sets of temperate zones 24/7. 4 seasons operate 8 times a year.


end of the day is dusk, end of night is dawn, the two sides will never be on the same side the surface of the planet rotates between daily where evolving never leaves anything the same before and after each rotation living here now.
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Right.
Jesus is more well-attested in writing than Socrates, the Buddha, Confucious, or than the emperor Xerxes of the Persian empire,
Nope.

Jesus, as a character in the Bible, has a message that resonates more with Christians than does anything from Socrates, Buddha, et. al. and that message resonates without confirmation of Jesus' historicity as an actual person.

An atheist who considers the gospels to be nothing more than urban legend can nonetheless apply the lessons and morals of the New Testament to modern life.

No Christian has any need to compete with any other faith or set of beliefs as to how "well attested in writing" Jesus is for the message to continue resonating.
 
An atheist considers the gospels to be nothing more than urban legend
The Gospels and Paul represent five different independent sources for the historicity of Jesus. Six, if you count the Gospel of Thomas.

Archeology confirms the historicity of some of the important figures mentioned in the Gospels.

The Jewish historian Josephus, and the Roman historian Tacitus confirm the basic outline of Jesus' life as a teacher and doer of good deeds, and executed by Roman authorities.

The Gospel of Mark probably contains eyewitness attestation to Jesus historicity from Peter, as recorded and organized by his companion Mark.


Even prominent atheist religious scholars like Bart Ehrman laugh at the idea that this body of written attestations are only just the result of a vast web of lies and a Mediterranean-wide conspiracy.


The miracles and the divinity of Jesus are later interpretations that serve theological purposes. That is not the topic of the thread.
The topic is, did he exist.
 
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