Sure. The most corrupt politician we ever had can save us. Perhaps he can by suicide.
The march to kill democracy.
- Thread starter Taichiliberal
- Start date
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
Just because some regulation was passed in the past doesn't mean it's relevant or effective today. Regulatory agencies should be kept on a very tight leash and forced to justify far beyond what they do any new regulation they want to pass.
They should also almost never, ever, be engaged in "zero tolerance" regulation. With an agency like the EPA or OSHA, their position should be "How much pollution should we allow?" not "How do we eliminate all pollution?" With OSHA it should be "How safe is safe enough?" not "We need everything 100% safe."
It seems they have created quite a lot of work for themselves.
They are even arguing that we are not a Democracy!
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
I previously gave you 2 references as to what happens when companies stoop to nefarious means to save or make a buck. Do the research. Without those regulatory agencies the SCOTUS just side stepped, they would have gotten away with it. And remember, the agencies are NOT perfect....look how long it took to lock up the sob's of Massey Energy.
I could go on, but I seriously doubt you will put in the time and effort to get educated on these references, and then logically deduce how detrimental the latest SCOTUS ruling is.
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
Regulations or not, some companies will "stoop to nefarious means." All too often, regulations come after the cows have left the barn, so-to-speak.
What the SCOTUS did was stop or slow agencies from creating 'zero tolerance' regulations, regulations using bad science, or regulations based on political whims.
The agencies aren't perfect, and that's why they need to be on a very short leash.
Let's compare Massey Energy to the EPA then. Massey had a massive fine levied against it for ignoring safety and health regulations to the tune of about $11 million in 2011.
Four years later, the EPA ignored safe engineering and environmental regulations at the Gold King mine causing a breech in a tailings dam that flooded a four-state watershed with toxic pollutants. The EPA then failed to warn other parties about the breech, and completely fucked away any sort of containment. Parties harmed, like the Navajo Nation, sued the EPA to the tune of about $200 million.
You know what the EPA's response was? They have immunity under the Federal Tort Claims Act and don't have to pay shit to anyone. I'll take my chances with a rogue corporation to being fucked by an unaccountable government bureaucracy.
Lock and load...
Yakuda
Verified User
Round up all your pussy friends and move on. Thats right life as you know you know it is coming to an end.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
To each of your sentences:
1. As I previously wrote: "And remember, the agencies are NOT perfect....look how long it took to lock up the sob's of Massey Energy."
2. Again, a generalization on your part. FYI: https://www.osha.gov/enforcement/top-cases
3. Ahh, but the SCOTUS is applying a "short leash", they are literally taking the reigns WITHOUT HAVING THE EXPERTISE ON THE DETAILS. https://apnews.com/article/supreme-...-environment-4ae73d5a79cabadff4da8f7e16669929
4. You're flat out WRONG. FYI: https://www.epa.gov/goldkingmine/go... continuing to expend resources on litigation.
You should really know WTF you're talking about before you endorse the bad decisions of a MAGA SCOTUS to "take your chances" with.
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
All that proves what I stated. For example, in number 4, the Navajo Nation alone is seeking about $150 million in damages. The EPA has spent less than $30 million on their clean up efforts and these have largely been cosmetic.
The Gold King Mine Disaster: EPA’s “Help” Not Wanted | Intermountain Histories
In 2015, the EPA hired private contractors to clear the entrance to the abandoned Gold King Mine outside of Silverton, Colorado. They sought to determine the mine’s impact on contamination of the nearby Animas River. There had been a steady trickle of highly acidic waste coming from the mine...
www.intermountainhistories.org
EPA won't pay claims in mine spill that released 3M of gallons of toxic water
The EPA announced today that it will not pay more than $1.2 billion in claims filed against it in response to the Gold King Mine spill.
www.usatoday.com
Many hoped the Gold King Mine spill would bring change. Five years later, they’re still waiting.
It didn’t take long after the sludge settled five years ago for the calls for change to begin. In fact, 3 million gallons of orange-gold water that poured out of the Gold King Mine on Aug. 5, 2015, was still flowing through the Colorado River watershed when discussions about the broader issue...
coloradosun.com
So, yea, the EPA says they're doing a fine job, while everybody else involved in this disaster says the EPA is just making things worse.
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
What's the odds on that happening? The appeals process leaves most decisions behind, never heard. The Supreme Court takes even fewer cases. A government agency can put in place bad regulations that could take decades to overturn, if they ever are.
Into the Night
Verified User
What American democracy?? The United States was never a democracy.
Into the Night
Verified User
FDR is dead, Sybil, and Biden can't save anything.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Your proudly ignorant opinion is irrelevant, as the previous exchange shows.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Your first link doesn't want gov't help , the second complains about not enough EPA bucks, and the last points to local, private, state & federal haggeling. They contradict your myopic view.All that proves what I stated. For example, in number 4, the Navajo Nation alone is seeking about $150 million in damages. The EPA has spent less than $30 million on their clean up efforts and these have largely been cosmetic.
The Gold King Mine Disaster: EPA’s “Help” Not Wanted | Intermountain Histories
In 2015, the EPA hired private contractors to clear the entrance to the abandoned Gold King Mine outside of Silverton, Colorado. They sought to determine the mine’s impact on contamination of the nearby Animas River. There had been a steady trickle of highly acidic waste coming from the mine...
EPA won't pay claims in mine spill that released 3M of gallons of toxic water
The EPA announced today that it will not pay more than $1.2 billion in claims filed against it in response to the Gold King Mine spill.www.usatoday.com
Many hoped the Gold King Mine spill would bring change. Five years later, they’re still waiting.
It didn’t take long after the sludge settled five years ago for the calls for change to begin. In fact, 3 million gallons of orange-gold water that poured out of the Gold King Mine on Aug. 5, 2015, was still flowing through the Colorado River watershed when discussions about the broader issue...
So, yea, the EPA says they're doing a fine job, while everybody else involved in this disaster says the EPA is just making things worse.
The United states is not a DIRECT democracy (like ancient ATHENS), rather, it is a REPRESENTATIVE democracy. That is, Americans in each of the 50 states vote in democratic ("one vote-one value" elections) to select their Congressional REPRESENTATIVES (for the House and the Senate).
America is a Constitutional Republic that is a REPRESENTATIVE (liberal) democracy. At least, that is how is was set up, and that is what it is still supposed to be. RIGHT?
The system of government that operates in Great Britain today is called a Constitutional Monarchy. In this system - which exists within a parliamentary democracy - the hereditary Monarch, (currently King Charles III), acts as a non party political (de facto/symbolic) Head of State. The role of the Constitutional monarch in Britain today is, by convention, mainly restricted to performing representative and civic role, but does not include executive or policy-making powers.
Ironically, an American President seems to me to have the ready ability wield tremendous, personal, political power - while he is in office. He has a good deal of the kind of tyrannical power that a historical English monarch like King John or King Henry VIII (the kind of power that horrified the Founding Fathers !) Consider, for instance, the way President Joe Biden issued 60+ EXECUTIVE ORDERS (within the first 100 days of his administration) to open the Southern Border and then ENCOURAGE some 18+ million UN-VETTED, ILLEGAL, foreign aliens to pour into America. A 15 year - old could have told you that allowing Biden to do this using EXECUTIVE ORDERS ( in order to bypass Congress) was pure, tyrannical, Batshit - madness.
RIGHT ??
Dachshund - the WONDER HOUND
DLM....Dachshund Lives Matter !!
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T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
They confirm it. The EPA fucked up. Now the EPA is fucking up the recovery from their fuck up. The whole thing is in many ways a cover up. Those that got fucked are fighting the EPA and each other on what to do to fix the EPA's fuck up.
The Chernobyl disaster is the same thing. An unaccountable government does shit that is fucked up. When everything goes south, they cover it up and hold no one accountable for the disaster they created. Those that got fucked get nothing.
The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.
What about , Barry O, Nordberg?? I'm sure that he could save America !! There must be some way the DNC can fix it so that Barry O. can go head to head with the evil, racist, fascist, orange man on the 5th November this year !!
Dachshund - the WONDER HOUND
DLM....Dachshund Lives Matter !!
Into the Night
Verified User
The EPA has cleaned up nothing and done nothing, other than interfere with markets (fascism).