The Ron Paul that Ron Paul does not want you to know

[blackascoal]

I am sure you have noted by now that I use quote marks often to emphasize rather than quote people. However, you are right I am sorry for putting quote marks around a paraphrased remark, rather than a quoted one.

No, I had not noticed such a misuse of quotations.

Here is the actual quote:

"After he's dismissed from the presidential race, he'll have a tough time keeping his own seat."

And it would be disingenuous to pretend that "tough time" means that it will be easier for another to beat him.

"Easy" is your word, not mine. It would have been far more honest to use MY own words in debate, not your redefinition. That's how honest debate works and I have not redefined anything you or anybody else has said but debated you on your actual words.

Remember saying this? "After he's dismissed from the presidential race, he'll have a tough time keeping his own seat."

Once again, "easy" is implied as the opposite of "tough" (quote marks for emphasis).

I've explained this too many times. Try using the actual words that you put in quotes if you're going to attempt honest debate. That way, there's no question of "implication" and even the context remains the same.

No, it comes only from the fact that anybody could lose. But it would take a baby-killing picture in order for him to lose in his district. He is very popular there, as Tancredo is here in this district. Relative unknowns, very popular in their small districts, very secure in their congressional seats.

I stand by my opinion that nobody will unseat him until he chooses to leave. As I said, some people would lay odds on it.

That's your opinion, but your words changed and I used used YOUR words, not some false redefinition or implication.

1. Your link to a 'Houston Chronicle Story' cannot even show that it actually was a Houston Chronicle Story. I've tried to find that opinion piece (not fact opinion piece) on any site officially linked to the Houston Chronicle, no such luck.

Hmmm. It seems I need to take baby steps here.

You mean the link itself told you nothing? You have no idea how links work or their proprietary nature? Click on www.chron.com .. the first part of the link I gave you .. and see what you get.

It's a 1996 article and it hasn't dawn on you that it could be archived?

Did you check to see if the Houston Chronicle even have a writer named Bernstein? .. I did. Has it dawned on you that if this article, written in '96, did not come from the Chronicle and was not written by Bernstein there would be retractions and statements about lawsuits available?

Amazing

2. You provide me a link to a radio station that says he was a guest and say that is evidence of his collaboration. I then ask, (paraphrasing) "When Bill Owens went on Air America for an interview, and they posted it on their site that he was doing it, did that mean that he was no longer an R and that he supported their agenda? Or did it mean that he agreed with them on one point, and otherwise was pretty much called the devil himself by most people?"

You did not answer.

I provided a lot more information about his participation than a radio station.

3. You did change from "tough time keeping his seat" to "could lose". AFTER you claimed that you didn't post those 1996 numbers of a Primary after redistricting to compare with current popularity in his district, you posted it to "prove" that Rs were angry at him.

Ridiculous.

I CLEARLY stated why republicans were angry at him and capitalized REPUBLICAN when I did .. but you still didn't get it .. AND I posted his almost non-existent poll numbers among REPUBLICANS to make my point .. which you obviously have no ability to counter.

Wrong. I asked questions such as the one above, "Bill Owens... blah, blah." You didn't answer.

WHAT? These aren't your words .. "Which hate group has Ron Paul actually gone to a function of?" .. Dude, are you serious? Try post #90.

I have never called you a jew. I did "misquote" but only as a regular posting style where I was emphasizing. I'm working on getting out of that habit.

I did not mean imply that you did call me a jew or anything else. I, fact, I appreciated you saying something to the person who did. My point is that there's been far more discussion about me then there has been on the information .. makes no sense.

1. If I support Ron Paul somewhere on the web it doesn't mean we have a "close association". If I support him because of his gun stance it does not mean we share any other opinion. If he doesn't "distance himself" from me, it does not mean we are the best of pals.

It means exactly what I said it did. No sane politician would have these associations and expect to be the president and it takes no more than common sense to recognize why he doesn't distance himself from them.

2. If I go on a radio station promoting libertarian views, they put it on their website, it does not mean that I support any other position at all or that I collaborate for them or are associated in any other way than as a guest on a radio show.

Sure, if a politician goes on a klan talk show and attends functions for hate groups .. that has no meaning.

Sure

3. That newsletter you gave was an uncomfortable read, but has been attributed to a different writer who has claimed the writing as his own. You then say that Ron Paul has said that they were "his words", but it was clearly pointed out that it was written by another and attributed to him by Adam earlier in the thread.

That was one of many newsletters and I clearly demonstrated that not only did Paul say they were his words SEVERAL TIMES, so did his spokesman. I also posted his flip-flops on the comments "too confusing to explain", "voters won't understand my tongue in-cheek academic writings", "My comments about Barbara Jordan", "my comments about black men", "mirrors what Jesse Jackson has said" .. his confusing "these weren't my words" didn't come unti 5 years later in the midst of a campaign .. which appears to be all you need to dismiss the obvious of all the other statements that were made.

Honestly, you do not appear to be the kind of person I'm trying to reach with this information. I recognize that many of his supporters simply don't care about the negative truth. Those I'm reaching, with much success I might add, are rethinking their support for this man.

As an aside, I've spent time in the US Congress in press and communications. I have a shit-load of media contacts and know how to get to the source, which is why I've already spoken to Peden, Dondero, and several others who know what they're talking about. Did a talk show about a week ago with two Ronbots, whom I destroyed. Like most of his supporters, they had no clue.

Point is that I'm not dismayed in the least by anyone's refusal to deal with this issue honestly. As you've said, there is a long time between now and elections, and I suspect that there will be few to zero liberals/progressives/democrats still on board that train.

Not trying to convince everybody.

 

[Damocles]

lol. I certainly don't expect R. Paul to win. From the very first I stated he had no shot.

I have spent way too much energy on this. Way too much. As I said your first link didn't work (note how I actually provided a link that worked later), so I found the actual story and the only working link to the "chron" article was not from the "chron" website.

So let's go slow...

1. Your chron link didn't work, I found your story and provided an actual link to it that worked, it wasn't from the chron website and I have been unable to find that article actually on that website in an archive or not.

2. After providing a link to the story, which is an op ed piece I asked if you could provide any of the actual newsletters, or were they only quotations taken from an uncited source. You said that only one of them could be found, it was later found that another had written those newsletters and claimed authorship, yet you still insisted it was his words. Using, "he hasn't denied it" as evidence.

3. You then stated the Rs were mad, I actually agree that most of the faithful are mad about his "it was our fault" type of statements, but then you went on to further claim that it would be "tough" for him to keep his seat. I don't agree with that.

4. You then posted a 1996 primary result, that in the end Paul won, as further evidence of how he could be beaten. I suggested you look at the numbers on his actual elections, you found that they were about 10% above his opponents in those elections. I used this to show his popularity in his Congressional district even though he has voted against R Platform items regularly since being in office.

5. You then said that you didn't post those numbers to show he could lose his congressional seat, even though you had actually quoted Watermark's post that was saying much the same as mine. We proceeded to get into this little back-and-forth from there, until you finally did state that it was the reason you posted those 1996 numbers.

I suggested that a newly made district in 1996 voted once in a primary for an unknown (to over half of them in this newly redistricted area) and since then he has only gained in popularity in his district and that it would be so unlikely for him to lose that I personally believe he would never leave his seat until he chose to, much like Tancredo in my district (another 'contender' who knows he wasn't going to win but entered for his own reason).

Anyway, it really isn't all that exciting. I like Ron Paul's constitutional stances, if indeed he wrote these things I would dislike what he wrote, but he is clearly not writing anything of the sort now. So, either he grew beyond such sentiments, or he grew more politically wise.

Seriously, if you have to go back that far to find something to attempt to go after him for it is much the same as people going after Kerry for throwing "his" medals over a fence.

 

[blackascoal]

lol. I certainly don't expect R. Paul to win. From the very first I stated he had no shot.

I have spent way too much energy on this. Way too much. As I said your first link didn't work (note how I actually provided a link that worked later), so I found the actual story and the only working link to the "chron" article was not from the "chron" website.

So let's go slow...

1. Your chron link didn't work, I found your story and provided an actual link to it that worked, it wasn't from the chron website and I have been unable to find that article actually on that website in an archive or not.

2. After providing a link to the story, which is an op ed piece I asked if you could provide any of the actual newsletters, or were they only quotations taken from an uncited source. You said that only one of them could be found, it was later found that another had written those newsletters and claimed authorship, yet you still insisted it was his words. Using, "he hasn't denied it" as evidence.

3. You then stated the Rs were mad, I actually agree that most of the faithful are mad about his "it was our fault" type of statements, but then you went on to further claim that it would be "tough" for him to keep his seat. I don't agree with that.

4. You then posted a 1996 primary result, that in the end Paul won, as further evidence of how he could be beaten. I suggested you look at the numbers on his actual elections, you found that they were about 10% above his opponents in those elections. I used this to show his popularity in his Congressional district even though he has voted against R Platform items regularly since being in office.

5. You then said that you didn't post those numbers to show he could lose his congressional seat, even though you had actually quoted Watermark's post that was saying much the same as mine. We proceeded to get into this little back-and-forth from there, until you finally did state that it was the reason you posted those 1996 numbers.

I suggested that a newly made district in 1996 voted once in a primary for an unknown (to over half of them in this newly redistricted area) and since then he has only gained in popularity in his district and that it would be so unlikely for him to lose that I personally believe he would never leave his seat until he chose to, much like Tancredo in my district (another 'contender' who knows he wasn't going to win but entered for his own reason).

Anyway, it really isn't all that exciting. I like Ron Paul's constitutional stances, if indeed he wrote these things I would dislike what he wrote, but he is clearly not writing anything of the sort now. So, either he grew beyond such sentiments, or he grew more politically wise.

Seriously, if you have to go back that far to find something to attempt to go after him for it is much the same as people going after Kerry for throwing "his" medals over a fence.

Not going to argue with anything said here although I have a different perspective. But I'll add one more caveat to my perspective. I have a daughter in the military who will soon be on her way back to Iraq to serve her 3rd tour of duty. I don't know if you can imagine the nightmares that I'll be having while she's there.

I'll wake up every morning rushing to my computer to find out what American soldiers were killed the previous day. If one is a woman, I'll get anxious. It she turns out to be a black woman, I'll start sweating until I find out her name and unit. I"ll feel guility when I'm relieved to find out that it wasn't my daughter, knowing that it was somebody's daughter.

My problems with Ron Paul has nothing whatsoever to do with his antiwar stance, which I applaud him for. My only issue with him here is that I wish he'd been more visible and outfront with it before this election season.

If I didn't know for a fact that these statements were his, researched to the nth degree, I would have nothing to say about them. My daughter's life is more important to me than my own. I raised her by myself from 4 months old. I blame myself for her even being in the Army instead of staying in college. Like her father, she's adventureous.

But the antiwar movement and desire of the American people to bring our troops home does not hinge on Ron Paul. In fact, I consider him a distraction, and with the incredible baggage he carries, he should not be thrust in front of conscience people. He's a disaster waiting to happen and when he comes crashing down, as he inevitably will, what impact will that have on the antiwar movement if we've thrust this disaster in front?

As I've said, I don't wish to be an enemy of you or anybody here, but from my perspective supporting Ron Paul is courting with disaster and will do nothing to get our troops home who have been abandoned in Hell.

 

[Damocles]

Not going to argue with anything said here although I have a different perspective. But I'll add one more caveat to my perspective. I have a daughter in the military who will soon be on her way back to Iraq to serve her 3rd tour of duty. I don't know if you can imagine the nightmares that I'll be having while she's there.

I'll wake up every morning rushing to my computer to find out what American soldiers were killed the previous day. If one is a woman, I'll get anxious. It she turns out to be a black woman, I'll start sweating until I find out her name and unit. I"ll feel guility when I'm relieved to find out that it wasn't my daughter, knowing that it was somebody's daughter.

My problems with Ron Paul has nothing whatsoever to do with his antiwar stance, which I applaud him for. My only issue with him here is that I wish he'd been more visible and outfront with it before this election season.

If I didn't know for a fact that these statements were his, researched to the nth degree, I would have nothing to say about them. My daughter's life is more important to me than my own. I raised her by myself from 4 months old. I blame myself for her even being in the Army instead of staying in college. Like her father, she's adventureous.

But the antiwar movement and desire of the American people to bring our troops home does not hinge on Ron Paul. In fact, I consider him a distraction, and with the incredible baggage he carries, he should not be thrust in front of conscience people. He's a disaster waiting to happen and when he comes crashing down, as he inevitably will, what impact will that have on the antiwar movement if we've thrust this disaster in front?

As I've said, I don't wish to be an enemy of you or anybody here, but from my perspective supporting Ron Paul is courting with disaster and will do nothing to get our troops home who have been abandoned in Hell.

I would never consider anybody an enemy because of a differing opinion. That is what we are here for.

I have been against the war from the beginning because it is undeclared, each and every war we have ever been in that was undeclared that lasted longer than 90 days has been a debacle of major proportions. I disagree with any war that is undeclared because of this. I believe that the declaration portion of the constitution was meant to protect us from this happening to begin with and believe that the War Powers Act was a mistake and one that seems to be permanent.

Thank your daughter for her service. I don't know about your nightmares, but I do remember being in during the last Iraq "war", notably as a Russian Translator and thus relatively safe, but definitely in.

I don't think the anti-war people will put him forward as their poster boy. He won't be famous long enough for that to happen.

 

[Cancel7]

Not going to argue with anything said here although I have a different perspective. But I'll add one more caveat to my perspective. I have a daughter in the military who will soon be on her way back to Iraq to serve her 3rd tour of duty. I don't know if you can imagine the nightmares that I'll be having while she's there.

I'll wake up every morning rushing to my computer to find out what American soldiers were killed the previous day. If one is a woman, I'll get anxious. It she turns out to be a black woman, I'll start sweating until I find out her name and unit. I"ll feel guility when I'm relieved to find out that it wasn't my daughter, knowing that it was somebody's daughter.

My problems with Ron Paul has nothing whatsoever to do with his antiwar stance, which I applaud him for. My only issue with him here is that I wish he'd been more visible and outfront with it before this election season.

If I didn't know for a fact that these statements were his, researched to the nth degree, I would have nothing to say about them. My daughter's life is more important to me than my own. I raised her by myself from 4 months old. I blame myself for her even being in the Army instead of staying in college. Like her father, she's adventureous.

But the antiwar movement and desire of the American people to bring our troops home does not hinge on Ron Paul. In fact, I consider him a distraction, and with the incredible baggage he carries, he should not be thrust in front of conscience people. He's a disaster waiting to happen and when he comes crashing down, as he inevitably will, what impact will that have on the antiwar movement if we've thrust this disaster in front?

As I've said, I don't wish to be an enemy of you or anybody here, but from my perspective supporting Ron Paul is courting with disaster and will do nothing to get our troops home who have been abandoned in Hell.

I hope she comes home safe and sound to you.

 

[blackascoal]

I would never consider anybody an enemy because of a differing opinion. That is what we are here for.

I have been against the war from the beginning because it is undeclared, each and every war we have ever been in that was undeclared that lasted longer than 90 days has been a debacle of major proportions. I disagree with any war that is undeclared because of this. I believe that the declaration portion of the constitution was meant to protect us from this happening to begin with and believe that the War Powers Act was a mistake and one that seems to be permanent.

Thank your daughter for her service. I don't know about your nightmares, but I do remember being in during the last Iraq "war", notably as a Russian Translator and thus relatively safe, but definitely in.

I don't think the anti-war people will put him forward as their poster boy. He won't be famous long enough for that to happen.

I apologize for any testy remarks from me.

Even though I have been liberal all my life, I would vote for Guiliani, McCain, and the resurrected corpse of Reagan before I voted for Paul.

At least we would still have an America.

We wouldn't be tossing seniors out on the street.

We would still be trying to protect our food source.

We would still be trying to educate and protect our most precious asset, our children.

We would still be trying to protect this nation from outside threats.

I could go on.

On many issues, Ron Paul is to the far-right .. of the right-wing.

I will indeed relay your message to my daughter.

 

[blackascoal]

I hope she comes home safe and sound to you.

You and me both my sister.

Thank you.

 

[Damocles]

I apologize for any testy remarks from me.

Even though I have been liberal all my life, I would vote for Guiliani, McCain, and the resurrected corpse of Reagan before I voted for Paul.

At least we would still have an America.

We wouldn't be tossing seniors out on the street.

We would still be trying to protect our food source.

We would still be trying to educate and protect our most precious asset, our children.

We would still be trying to protect this nation from outside threats.

I could go on.

On many issues, Ron Paul is to the far-right .. of the right-wing.

I will indeed relay your message to my daughter.

None of those things would happen if Ron Paul were president. All of them would have to pass the Congress/Senate. And that is if he had any shot at all of becoming President. He has no such shot, he knows it, we know it. This leaves him open to making remarks and supporting a platform that everybody knows won't get him elected so that he can create a bit of a lean in the debate towards less government.

Just as Tancredo knows he won't have a shot either, but entered simply to get those people talking about border security as a national security issue. It worked.

 

[blackascoal]

None of those things would happen if Ron Paul were president. All of them would have to pass the Congress/Senate. And that is if he had any shot at all of becoming President. He has no such shot, he knows it, we know it. This leaves him open to making remarks and supporting a platform that everybody knows won't get him elected so that he can create a bit of a lean in the debate towards less government.

Just as Tancredo knows he won't have a shot either, but entered simply to get those people talking about border security as a national security issue. It worked.

This is true .. which why I'm not concerned about having to vote for Reagan's corpse.

 

[Battleborne]

I apologize for any testy remarks from me.

Even though I have been liberal all my life, I would vote for Guiliani, McCain, and the resurrected corpse of Reagan before I voted for Paul.

At least we would still have an America.

We wouldn't be tossing seniors out on the street.

We would still be trying to protect our food source.

We would still be trying to educate and protect our most precious asset, our children.

We would still be trying to protect this nation from outside threats.

I could go on.

On many issues, Ron Paul is to the far-right .. of the right-wing.

I will indeed relay your message to my daughter.

Hey blackascoal...I see you are getting the message...the threat to you and yours is not the 'conservatives'...Liberals have been playing y'all like a fiddle dating back to the 'Civil War'...if ya do a little research you will find that conservatives place more minorities in postitions of power than any Liberals have ever done..


Going back to my days as a youth...I loved 'Surfer Music'...My best bud Norm who also was a VN vet listened to 'Soul Music' while driving around I said why do you listen to this??? He said try it you will like it...I listened and then became a lover of 'Soul Music'

To make a long story short...while in the military I was attacked by a African American (decent) soldier who was mad about the riots in Los Angeles back in the day...after the fight I asked him why he attacked me...he said...'Because you are from LA!...I said 'and this is why you hit me?'...He said yes...I said 'hey dude I have nothing to do with all this'...needless to say we became best friends after we realized we were both victims of Liberalism and socialism...just my take on this sorry state of affairs! A continuing saga today!

 

[blackascoal]

Hey blackascoal...I see you are getting the message...the threat to you and yours is not the 'conservatives'...Liberals have been playing y'all like a fiddle dating back to the 'Civil War'...if ya do a little research you will find that conservatives place more minorities in postitions of power than any Liberals have ever done..


Going back to my days as a youth...I loved 'Surfer Music'...My best bud Norm who also was a VN vet listened to 'Soul Music' while driving around I said why do you listen to this??? He said try it you will like it...I listened and then became a lover of 'Soul Music'

To make a long story short...while in the military I was attacked by a African American (decent) soldier who was mad about the riots in Los Angeles back in the day...after the fight I asked him why he attacked me...he said...'Because you are from LA!...I said 'and this is why you hit me?'...He said yes...I said 'hey dude I have nothing to do with all this'...needless to say we became best friends after we realized we were both victims of Liberalism and socialism...just my take on this sorry state of affairs! A continuing saga today!

Thank you brother.

I appreciate your thoughts and sharing your story, but in many ways, we've all been played.

I grew up during the 60's and experienced the struggles of civil rights up close and personal. It shaped my liberal beliefs. The conservatism of right-wing politicians and the history and philosophy of the South made it almost impossible, if not downright traitorous to believe otherwise. The stories and memories of my father and grandparents were not of oppression, and in my grandmother's case, rape, by liberals. As I looked around the political scene, even as a teenager, it was clear that most of those who thought I was less than human were conservatives, republicans, and on the Right of the political and social spectrum.

Black liberals were being elected to political office and many became my heroes. They stood up and spoke to an injust that had been allowed to fester in America for over 350 years. White liberals stood right next to them. On the college campuses, white liberals protested the injust while conservatives stood in the way.

I grew up in Detroit and my father worked at Chrysler for over 26 years. He was from Florida, but like many African-Americans, he moved north to escape the more overt racism of the south and to take advantage of opportunities available there that were not available south. One day when I was about 16 years old, I went with my father to a union meeting. He went into a meeting with Coleman Young and a young John Conyers, leaving me in the assembly hall before the meeting started. As I stood against the wall my eyes caught the sight of a very pretty white woman. She was beautiful and I couldn't take my eyes off of her. Being that this was 1965 I was too embarrassed for her or anyone else to see me staring at her.

As the people began to take seats as the meeting was about to start, I went and sat down. A moment later, this beautiful woman sat down right next to me. I was too afraid/conditioned to say anything to her, but she said hello to me and reached out to shake my hand. As I turn to shake her hand I looked into her eyes. I was lost. I think I said my name is Richard, but to this day I'm not sure. I was too lost in her eyes. It wasn't as though I hadn't spoken to or interacted with white women before, but this one sent a chill down my spine. She smiled and told me her name, Viola.

When the meeting began, the hall was packed and I gave up my seat to an elderly woman who was standing. Viola said, "that was gracious of you." I found a spot along the wall were I could stand .. and watch this beautful woman without her seeing me watching her. When the meeting ended, my father came and got me, and in the confusion of all the people, I never saw her again. On the drive back home I told my father about her but all he said was, "hmmm".

About a month or so later, my brothers and I were watching TV and suddenly there was the face of the beautiful woman that had so entranced me. It was her face and she had been murdered. Her name was Viola Liuzzo. She was murdered by the Klan after travelling to Selma, Ala. to protest the oppression of blacks. She called it "everybody's fight".

I was hurt and cried for days. I gained a greater appreciation for liberalism and people of all races who fought for it. At 17, I wrote a paper that brought me a degree of acclaim called "The Eyes of Viola Liuzo". I've been an activist ever since.

It wasn't until the heroics of conservative Republican Senator Everett Dirksen did I believe that conservatives had any humanity at all. But, when Nixon embarked upon his "southern strategy" I started to question even that belief.

Although today there are people like Condaslezza Rice, Colon Powell, and Clarence Uncle Thomas, none of them are celebrated in the African-American community. Black faces .. that's it. Viola Liuzzo and Sen. Dirksen are celebrated. The color of the face is less important than the character of the heart and the commitment to equality ... a point I am quick to make among any group of people who dare dabble in racist thought.

Today, the Democratic Party is lost and every bit a part of the plutocracy as republicans are .. which is why I'm not a democrat. But the divisions amongst us are contrived, not happenstance. As long as we're worried about each other, you'll never see the knife that slices your throat. Fear is a great motivator among Americans, always has been. The corporate will doesn't care about race, doesn't care about patriotism, doesn't care about America. In my opinion, those who speak only of the glorys of the market, only sharpen the knife. Americans are an easily manipulated people.

I'm sure that you and I could have great conversations about our experiences and how we came to our political perspectives. But as an African-American, I owe a great deal to the concept of liberalism. I've walked the Halls of Congress and I've seen the difference between the Left side of the aisle and the Right.

I do respect your perspective brother and look forward to talking about this again.

 

[Cancel7]

Thank you brother.

I appreciate your thoughts and sharing your story, but in many ways, we've all been played.

I grew up during the 60's and experienced the struggles of civil rights up close and personal. It shaped my liberal beliefs. The conservatism of right-wing politicians and the history and philosophy of the South made it almost impossible, if not downright traitorous to believe otherwise. The stories and memories of my father and grandparents were not of oppression, and in my grandmother's case, rape, by liberals. As I looked around the political scene, even as a teenager, it was clear that most of those who thought I was less than human were conservatives, republicans, and on the Right of the political and social spectrum.

Black liberals were being elected to political office and many became my heroes. They stood up and spoke to an injust that had been allowed to fester in America for over 350 years. White liberals stood right next to them. On the college campuses, white liberals protested the injust while conservatives stood in the way.

I grew up in Detroit and my father worked at Chrysler for over 26 years. He was from Florida, but like many African-Americans, he moved north to escape the more overt racism of the south and to take advantage of opportunities available there that were not available south. One day when I was about 16 years old, I went with my father to a union meeting. He went into a meeting with Coleman Young and a young John Conyers, leaving me in the assembly hall before the meeting started. As I stood against the wall my eyes caught the sight of a very pretty white woman. She was beautiful and I couldn't take my eyes off of her. Being that this was 1965 I was too embarrassed for her or anyone else to see me staring at her.

As the people began to take seats as the meeting was about to start, I went and sat down. A moment later, this beautiful woman sat down right next to me. I was too afraid/conditioned to say anything to her, but she said hello to me and reached out to shake my hand. As I turn to shake her hand I looked into her eyes. I was lost. I think I said my name is Richard, but to this day I'm not sure. I was too lost in her eyes. It wasn't as though I hadn't spoken to or interacted with white women before, but this one sent a chill down my spine. She smiled and told me her name, Viola.

When the meeting began, the hall was packed and I gave up my seat to an elderly woman who was standing. Viola said, "that was gracious of you." I found a spot along the wall were I could stand .. and watch this beautful woman without her seeing me watching her. When the meeting ended, my father came and got me, and in the confusion of all the people, I never saw her again. On the drive back home I told my father about her but all he said was, "hmmm".

About a month or so later, my brothers and I were watching TV and suddenly there was the face of the beautiful woman that had so entranced me. It was her face and she had been murdered. Her name was Viola Liuzzo. She was murdered by the Klan after travelling to Selma, Ala. to protest the oppression of blacks. She called it "everybody's fight".

I was hurt and cried for days. I gained a greater appreciation for liberalism and people of all races who fought for it. At 17, I wrote a paper that brought me a degree of acclaim called "The Eyes of Viola Liuzo". I've been an activist ever since.

It wasn't until the heroics of conservative Republican Senator Everett Dirksen did I believe that conservatives had any humanity at all. But, when Nixon embarked upon his "southern strategy" I started to question even that belief.

Although today there are people like Condaslezza Rice, Colon Powell, and Clarence Uncle Thomas, none of them are celebrated in the African-American community. Black faces .. that's it. Viola Liuzzo and Sen. Dirksen are celebrated. The color of the face is less important than the character of the heart and the commitment to equality ... a point I am quick to make among any group of people who dare dabble in racist thought.

Today, the Democratic Party is lost and every bit a part of the plutocracy as republicans are .. which is why I'm not a democrat. But the divisions amongst us are contrived, not happenstance. As long as we're worried about each other, you'll never see the knife that slices your throat. Fear is a great motivator among Americans, always has been. The corporate will doesn't care about race, doesn't care about patriotism, doesn't care about America. In my opinion, those who speak only of the glorys of the market, only sharpen the knife. Americans are an easily manipulated people.

I'm sure that you and I could have great conversations about our experiences and how we came to our political perspectives. But as an African-American, I owe a great deal to the concept of liberalism. I've walked the Halls of Congress and I've seen the difference between the Left side of the aisle and the Right.

I do respect your perspective brother and look forward to talking about this again.

Wow. An amazing post, thank you for taking the time to write it. I got tears in my eyes when I was reading the part about Viola.

 

[IHateGovernment]

Wow what a great post. Couldn't help but think of Malcolm X when a white women asked if there was anything she could do to help his cause. He replied nothing. Later he said that was one of his biggest regrets.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

"Today, the Democratic Party is lost and every bit a part of the plutocracy as republicans are .. which is why I'm not a democrat. But the divisions amongst us are contrived, not happenstance. As long as we're worried about each other, you'll never see the knife that slices your throat. Fear is a great motivator among Americans, always has been. The corporate will doesn't care about race, doesn't care about patriotism, doesn't care about America. In my opinion, those who speak only of the glorys of the market, only sharpen the knife. Americans are an easily manipulated people."

Of course they don't care about race. A corporation is always more socially progressive than the government of the time. It has to appeal to as many as possible, while a government only has to appeal to the majority.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Wow what a great post. Couldn't help but think of Malcolm X when a white women asked if there was anything she could do to help his cause. He replied nothing. Later he said that was one of his biggest regrets.

Gee, sorry for starting at the bottom of posts guys...

Guess I'll read the top too...

I read my magazines like this, ya know. Start at the back and go to the front.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

"I grew up during the 60's and experienced the struggles of civil rights up close and personal. It shaped my liberal beliefs. The conservatism of right-wing politicians and the history and philosophy of the South made it almost impossible, if not downright traitorous to believe otherwise. The stories and memories of my father and grandparents were not of oppression, and in my grandmother's case, rape, by liberals. As I looked around the political scene, even as a teenager, it was clear that most of those who thought I was less than human were conservatives, republicans, and on the Right of the political and social spectrum."

Mississippi was horrible back then. It's still horrible on civil rights. The Killen trial was a good thing, but he should've been charged with murder, not manslaughter, even if he "may" have been "only" a mastermind. I still wonder why the state legislature doesn't apologize for all that stuff. The state is still divided by race... there aren't Democrats and Republicans, liberals and conservatives, it's the blacks and the whites in congress. The blacks always put up a candidate on the Democratic ticket and lose, and the whites always put up one on the Republican side and win. And the white Democrats are basically all Republicans, I'm sorry to say. I can't even think of a single white liberal in our congress to this day.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Hmmm...

You're names Richard? LOL. I thought you were a women. Don't know why. You just kind of reminded me of Darla and LadyT.

 

[blackascoal]

Wow. An amazing post, thank you for taking the time to write it. I got tears in my eyes when I was reading the part about Viola.

Thank you again sister.

 

[blackascoal]

Wow what a great post. Couldn't help but think of Malcolm X when a white women asked if there was anything she could do to help his cause. He replied nothing. Later he said that was one of his biggest regrets.

True.

Malcolm grew with his experiences. His trip to Mecca changed him and he came to recognize that the enemy was the system, not the person. Not only did he change with his experiences, but so did Dr. King. King began to realize that the system of racism in America would not change peacefully and evisioned that the violence of his own death was inevitable, which he very clearly spoke to in his "I've Been to the Mountaintop" speech which he delivered the day before he was murdered.

" And then I got to Memphis. And some began to say the threats, or talk about the threats that were out. What would happen to me from some of our sick white brothers?

Well, I don't know what will happen now. We've got some difficult days ahead. But it doesn't matter with me now. Because I've been to the mountaintop. And I don't mind. Like anybody, I would like to live a long life. Longevity has its place. But I'm not concerned about that now. I just want to do God's will. And He's allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I've looked over. And I've seen the promised land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the promised land. And I'm happy, tonight. I'm not worried about anything. I'm not fearing any man. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord." -- Dr. Martin Luther King

Malcolm and Dr. King grew closer .. which was feared by all the J. Edgar Hoover's of this nation.

If you ever want to see the visual representation of why King and Malcolm were murdered, just take a look at the picture of them standing together shaking hands and smiling.

Letter from Mecca -- Malcolm X

Never have I witnessed such sincere hospitality and the overwhelming spirit of true brotherhood as practiced by people of all colors and races here in this Ancient Holy Land, the home of Abraham, Muhammad and all other prophets of the Holy Scriptures. For the past week, I have been utterly speechless and spellbound by the graciousness I see displayed all around me by people of all colors.

I have been blessed to visit the Holy City of Mecca. I have made my seven circuits around the Ka'ba, led by a young Mutawaf named Muhammad. I drank water from the well of Zem Zem. I ran seven times back and forth between the hills of Mt. Al-Safa and Al-Marwah. I have prayed in the ancient city of Mina, and I have prayed on Mt. Arafat.

There were tens of thousands of pilgrims, from all over the world. They were of all colors, from blue eyed blonds to black skin Africans. But we were all participating in the same rituals, displaying a spirit of unity and brotherhood that my experiences in America had lead me to believe never could exist between the white and non-white.

America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem. Throughout my travels in the Muslim world, I have met, talked to, and even eaten with people who in America would have considered 'white' -- but the 'white' attitude was removed from their minds by the religion of Islam. I have never before seen sincere and true brotherhood practiced by all colors together, irrespective of their color.

You may be shocked by these words coming from me. But on this pilgrimage, what I have seen, and experienced, has forced me to re-arrange much of my thought patterns previously held, and to toss aside some of my previous conclusions. This was not too difficult for me. Despite my firm convictions, I have always been a man who tries to face facts, and to accept the reality of life as new experiences and new knowledge unfolds it. I have always kept an open mind, which is necessary to the flexibility that must go hand in hand with every form of intelligent search for truth.

During the past eleven days here in the Muslim world, I have eaten from the same plate, drunk from the same glass, and slept in the same bed, (or on the same rug) -- while praying to the same God -- with fellow Muslims, whose eyes were the bluest of blue, whose hair was the blondest of blond, and whose skin was the whitest of white. And in the same words and in the actions and in the deeds of the 'white' Muslims, I felt the same sincerity that I felt among the black African Muslims of Nigeria, Sudan and Ghana.

We were truly all the same (brothers) -- because their belief in one God had removed the 'white' from their minds, the 'white' from their behavior, and the 'white' from their attitude.

I could see from this, that perhaps if white Americans could accept the Oneness of God, then perhaps, too, they could accept in reality the Oneness of Man -- and cease to measure, and hinder, and harm others in terms of their differences in color.

With racism plaguing America like an incurable cancer, the so-called 'Christian' white American heart should be more receptive to a proven solution to such a destructive problem. Perhaps it could be in time to save America from imminent disaster -- the same destruction brought upon Germany by racism that eventually destroyed the Germans themselves.

Each hour here in the Holy Land enables me to have greater spiritual insights into what is happening in America between black and white. The American Negro never can be blamed for his racial animosities -- he is only reacting to four hundred years of conscious racism of the American whites. But as racism leads America up the suicide path, I do believe, from the experience that I have had with them, that the whites of the younger generation, in the colleges and universities, will see the handwriting on the wall and many of them will turn to the spiritual path of truth -- the only way left to America to ward off the disaster that racism inevitably must lead to.

Never have I been so highly honored. Never have I been made to feel more humble and unworthy. Who would believe the blessings that have been heaped upon an American Negro? A few nights ago, a man who would be called in America a 'white' man, a United Nations diplomat, an ambassador, a companion of kings, gave me his hotel suite, his bed. By this man, His Excellency Prince Faisal, who rules this Holy Land, was made aware of my presence here in Jedda. The very next morning, Prince Faisal's son, in person, informed me that by the will and decree of his esteemed father, I was to be a State Guest.

The deputy Chief of Protocol himself took me before the Hajj Court. His Holiness Sheikh Muhammad Harkon himself okayed my visit to Mecca. His Holiness gave me two books on Islam, with his personal seal and autograph, and he told me that he prayed that I would be a successful preacher of Islam in America. A car, a driver, and a guide, have been placed at my disposal, making it possible for me to travel about this Holy Land almost at will. The government provides air conditioned quarters and servants in each city that I visit. Never would I have even thought of dreaming that I would ever be a recipient of such honors -- honors that in America would be bestowed upon a King -- not a Negro.

All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of all the Worlds.

Sincerely,
El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz (Malcom X)
****************

It is because of the courage of people such as these, including Viola Liuzzo and Everett Dirksen, and countless others of all races who stood and fell with them, that I can never accept or be silent about what Ron Paul represents.

His beliefs are a giant step backwards, and too many have been sacrificed to bring about what has been achieved today for me to stay silent.

 

[blackascoal]

"Today, the Democratic Party is lost and every bit a part of the plutocracy as republicans are .. which is why I'm not a democrat. But the divisions amongst us are contrived, not happenstance. As long as we're worried about each other, you'll never see the knife that slices your throat. Fear is a great motivator among Americans, always has been. The corporate will doesn't care about race, doesn't care about patriotism, doesn't care about America. In my opinion, those who speak only of the glorys of the market, only sharpen the knife. Americans are an easily manipulated people."

Of course they don't care about race. A corporation is always more socially progressive than the government of the time. It has to appeal to as many as possible, while a government only has to appeal to the majority.

Thomas Jefferson believed that freedom from corporations was a basic human right.

My comment that corporations don't care about race meant that they do not care about it's place in, or benefit to, society. In many cases, it's whatever is cheapest, but the progressive demand for opportunities to excel within corporations and the break the "good 'ol boy" glass ceiling came by way of government/societal intervention.

When people think "affirmative action" they think black, however, women have been as much, or even greater recipient of the progress made through AA than blacks have.