The Suck Zone - Need a science forum

[Saint Guinefort]

You started off well then, as seems your habit, fell back into a defensive "I'm right, he's wrong" position.

Incorrect. I was responding to their hyperpedantic interpretation.

And, of course, I was right and the other poster was being overly limited and thus, technically, not fully correct.

My points remain correct.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

There's an interesting topic, the origins of human myths.

According to the Creation Science Museum, humans lived among dinosaurs, so that is clearly where the dragon mythology comes frome. : )

Agreed mythical origins is an interesting topic.

Like dragons, I suspect all myths have a factual basis with the Flood myth being a major one since most cultures have experienced disastrous floods. With those living next to the ocean or rivers most likely to have a story or two.

 

[Cypress]

Agreed mythical origins is an interesting topic.

Like dragons, I suspect all myths have a factual basis with the Flood myth being a major one since most cultures have experienced disastrous floods. With those living next to the ocean or rivers most likely to have a story or two.

It's fascinating stuff. King Arthur, the Minotaur, and the Trojan War all seem to have some vague basis in collective human memory.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

If you stopped the average person on the street they would have heard of Darwin, Einstein, Newton, Hawking.

But you could offer them 100 dollars, and they still wouldn't be able to name a geologist, chemist, ecologist, meteorologist, entomologist.

Physics and biology are just the Queens of the sciences

While those with lots of letters after their names can argue which field of study is more important than another, one reason why average people can name Einstein or Darwin over James Hutton or John Dalton is atomic weapons and politics...in that order.

Nuclear weapons have been in the news since August 1945 and Darwin is a favorite topic of the Evangelistas, especially since the 1990s when the Republicans began pushing Creationism in schools.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

It's fascinating stuff. King Arthur, the Minotaur, and the Trojan War all seem to have some vague basis in collective human memory.

Agreed. The Minotaur isn't the first or only half-human/half-animal creature in mythology. I haven't seen any ideas or theories on why those would come about in the Mediterranean world and Europe.

In the Americas, Native Americans who first saw conquistadors on their horses thought they were a single, monstrous creature.

https://americanindian.si.edu/exhibitions/horsenation/firstvision.html

For many Native peoples, the first sight of a horse was terrifying. A Spanish soldier on horseback seemed to be a single monstrous creature. The Spanish used this terror to advance their conquest, sometimes attaching bells to their armor to add more noise and confusion.

In the islands of the Caribbean, Taíno people were the first to see the horse, and the sight inspired fear—animal fused to sword-wielding conquistador—the legs of the rider blending with the galloping extremities of his mount as it rode down Native people, while the metal of rein and bit and stirrup clanged with the fury of war.

—José Barreiro (Taíno), NMAI, 2009​

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Incorrect. I was responding to their hyperpedantic interpretation.

And, of course, I was right and the other poster was being overly limited and thus, technically, not fully correct.

My points remain correct.

QED

Why are you so defensive, Perry? Job stress?

 

[Rune]

I love watching Purists argue since they are often both right and wrong at the same time. LOL

Britannica lists Agricola as "the father of mineralogy" and among the first to "found a natural science based on observation". It is from such humble beginnings that many specialized areas of study branched, such as metallurgy and geology.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Georgius-Agricola

The first observationalist was Pliny the Elder.

Aside from that you seem to have forgotten about the Bronze Age, The Iron Age,

The fact that society would not exist without iron (steel), need I go on?

Blacksmiths have been able to create steel from iron ore for 3500 years.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The first observationalist was Pliny the Elder.

Aside from that you seem to have forgotten about the Bronze Age, The Iron Age,

The fact that society would not exist without iron (steel), need I go on?

Blacksmiths have been able to create steel from iron ore for 3500 years.

You're assuming again, Rune. Stick to metallurgy.

 

[Cypress]

While those with lots of letters after their names can argue which field of study is more important than another, one reason why average people can name Einstein or Darwin over James Hutton or John Dalton is atomic weapons and politics...in that order.

Nuclear weapons have been in the news since August 1945 and Darwin is a favorite topic of the Evangelistas, especially since the 1990s when the Republicans began pushing Creationism in schools.

You're probably right that more than just science contributed to their fame, but I think Einstein was a household name well before the atomic bomb was dropped.

Darwin's theory was losing ground, until it was rescued by genetics. So Darwin might owe the longevity of his fame to Mendel's peas, et al !

 

[Saint Guinefort]

QED

Why are you so defensive, Perry? Job stress?

Interesting game you play. You watch, then step in and accuse people of doing something. You select your words carefully but you still aim to needle people.

Then when someone responds you double down on it.

Then the person finally clarifies the point and you assume they are "defensive" and under "work stress".

I should be happy you haven't diagnosed me as "bipolar" or "Paranoid Schizophrenic" as you do with literally everyone else.

Why do you do this? You have a schtick as everyone does and this one appears to be your schtick.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You're probably right that more than just science contributed to their fame, but I think Einstein was a household name well before the atomic bomb was dropped.

Darwin's theory was losing ground, until it was rescued by genetics. So Darwin might owe the longevity of his fame to Mendel's peas, et al !

LOL Good reference and agreed.

Some purists would argue Gregor's work was the birth of genetics, while others would argue that crossbreeding domestic crops and livestock was known for centuries before his peas.

The bottom line is that there are a lot of sung and unsung heroes in the advancements of mankind, all of which were built upon by others.

Example; most people know about Newton but most don't know about Gottfried Leibniz. Until recent years, most knew about Edison, but fewer knew about Tesla.

One of my favorite topics are the accidental discoveries such as the microwave oven and plastic. Even those built upon the discoveries of others.

https://www.mynewlab.com/blog/accidental-scientific-discoveries-and-breakthroughs/
Some of the greatest scientific breakthroughs have been accidentally discovered from within a laboratory

 

[Saint Guinefort]

While those with lots of letters after their names can argue which field of study is more important than another, one reason why average people can name Einstein or Darwin over James Hutton or John Dalton is atomic weapons and politics...in that order.

Nuclear weapons have been in the news since August 1945 and Darwin is a favorite topic of the Evangelistas, especially since the 1990s when the Republicans began pushing Creationism in schools.

(Ironic that you should name James Dalton and then atomic weapons since the phrase "atomic" doesn't exist in the scientific parlance without Dalton.)

But overall this is partially true. Most people know these things because they got pushed into the public consciousness through more political or military means. But even before the atomic bomb Einstein was extremely well known among regular folks. He was a celebrity which is why, even though he had little hand directly in the Manhattan Project apart from his earlier work which helped explain the mass deficit found during fission, his imprimatur was absolutely required to get FDR to OK the development of the Manhattan Engineering District.

 

[Cypress]

LOL Good reference and agreed.

Some purists would argue Gregor's work was the birth of genetics, while others would argue that crossbreeding domestic crops and livestock was known for centuries before his peas.

The bottom line is that there are a lot of sung and unsung heroes in the advancements of mankind, all of which were built upon by others.

Example; most people know about Newton but most don't know about Gottfried Leibniz. Until recent years, most knew about Edison, but fewer knew about Tesla.

One of my favorite topics are the accidental discoveries such as the microwave oven and plastic. Even those built upon the discoveries of others.

https://www.mynewlab.com/blog/accidental-scientific-discoveries-and-breakthroughs/
Some of the greatest scientific breakthroughs have been accidentally discovered from within a laboratory

Newton despised Leibniz and probably worked behind the scenes to tarnish his reputation!

I think Mendeleev gets short-shrifted on reputation; the periodic table might be the most iconic symbol of the high school science classroom.

Selective breeding of livestock and plants was certainly considered by Darwin, but evolution by natural selection was a novel concept, and it took the early 20th century synthesis with genetics for people to understand how natural selection would lead to evolution.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

Newton despised Leibniz and probably worked behind the scenes to tarnish his reputation!

From what I understood Newton despised a vast swath of people. It sounds like he was generally a pretty nasty person who had fights with a wide variety of other scientists at the time.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Interesting game you play. You watch, then step in and accuse people of doing something. You select your words carefully but you still aim to needle people.

Then when someone responds you double down on it.

Then the person finally clarifies the point and you assume they are "defensive" and under "work stress".

I should be happy you haven't diagnosed me as "bipolar" or "Paranoid Schizophrenic" as you do with literally everyone else.

Why do you do this? You have a schtick as everyone does and this one appears to be your schtick.

I say what I think. Life is too short to do otherwise. IMO, you're not insane, but you do seem stressed. I'm curious why.

What amazes me is that people put on airs on an Internet forum while hiding behind an anonymous name. If you can't be yourself here, where can you be???

 

[Saint Guinefort]

I say what I think. Life is too short to do otherwise. IMO, you're not insane, but you do seem stressed. I'm curious why.

What amazes me is that people put on airs on an Internet forum while hiding behind an anonymous name. If you can't be yourself here, where can you be???

You put on an air, too. I hope you realize this. Your facade is one of the "calm operator" who sees the flaws of everyone else.

Of course you do your best to needle very subtly to get what you are looking for, but it is, after all a "schtick". You have one just like everyone else.

Would you like me to revisit your schtick for you? I can do that. In fact I will:

You truly believe that which is why I think you’re a paranoid schizophrenic.

I don’t believe everyone has a sock, just certain people like you.

Delusional paranoid schizophrenic.

Lying Paranoid Schizophrenic.

Another delusional scream from JPP's foremost paranoid schizophrenic.

The best evidence that you don't have all your marbles in one sock is your online manifesto here: https://politiplex.freeforums.net/thread/94/obamas-presidential-eligibility-debunked

 

[Cypress]

From what I understood Newton despised a vast swath of people. It sounds like he was generally a pretty nasty person who had fights with a wide variety of other scientists at the time.

He was supposed to be an unpleasant person.

I think what fed the legend of Newton and Einstein was their status as prodigys who exploded onto the scene from nowhere.

Newton invented calculus and the laws of mechanics as a mere undergraduate college student, sequestered at home when Cambridge University had to close down due to a plague outbreak.

Einstein was a physics college graduate of no particular importance working a dread end bureaucratic job in the Swiss patent office, and he developed special relativity, Brownian motion, and the photoelectric effect while on his work hours.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

I say what I think.

So do psychopaths and toddlers.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

He was supposed to be an unpleasant person.

I think what fed the legend of Newton and Einstein was their status as prodigys who exploded onto the scene from nowhere.

Newton invented calculus and the laws of mechanics as a college student, sequestered at home when Cambridge had to close down due to a plague outbreak.


Einstein was a physics college graduate of no particular importance working a dread end bureaucratic job in the Swiss patent office, and he developed special relativity, Brownian motion, and the photoelectric effect on his work hours.

Newton AND LEIBNIZ invented Calculus.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

He was supposed to be an unpleasant person.

I think what fed the legend of Newton and Einstein was their status as prodigys who exploded onto the scene from nowhere.

Newton invented calculus and the laws of mechanics as a mere undergraduate college student, sequestered at home when Cambridge had to close down due to a plague outbreak.

Einstein was a physics college graduate of no particular importance working a dread end bureaucratic job in the Swiss patent office, and he developed special relativity, Brownian motion, and the photoelectric effect while on his work hours.

The thing I love about Einstein is that he was weaker in math than his wife at the time. She helped him with some of the math in his "annus mirabilis" papers as I understand. (Not that Einstein was BAD at math, but his wife was the real math powerhouse of the couple which must mean she was AMAZING.)