The West is racing towards WW3

anonymoose said:
See last post above^
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Glad we're now on the same page in regards to negotiations with Russia. Some people seem willing to continue to risk World War III for what I think amounts to misteps mostly made by western Ukraine and the western powers that backed it.
 
Scott said:
I suspect that your quote above is not really a quote, but I have heard something similar said elsewhere. However, since I haven't seen a quite like the one above, I'm a bit leery of assuming this is completely true.

As to Washington, I believe some believed that, but I also think it's possible that others just wanted to "weaken" Russia and didn't really care what happened to Ukrainians. There was a politician who recently said that Ukraine was sitting on trillions of dollars worth of resources, I definitely think that could be a factor too.
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I paraphrased what Z was told....something that has gone almost completely not reported in the West.



Weakening Russia and then going on to China to recreate American hegemony.

Weaken and hopefully break up Russia so that we could resume the rape of Russia that took place during the pre Putin Yeltsin years.

Exercise WOKE Death Cult sadism

Vengeance against Russia for not submitting to the Death Cult, for showing that it can be resisted, for standing behind traditional Western values

Taking a pound of flesh from the Father of Modern Russia for standing up against us, for helping Russia to resist us.



All of these are why we did it.
 
Scott said:
In 2014, I can believe it. You have him saying it in 2022+?
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Russia planned to seize Kyiv in a few days in February of 2022. They intended to mop up the rest of Ukraine in the following days. They lost roughly half their special forces trying to do this.

Obviously, after this failed in February of 2022, everyone started questioning this prediction.

If anything, it seemed more possible in January of 2022 than in 2014. The Russians (and most of the rest of the world) believed they had compromised most of the leadership of Ukraine over the previous 8 years. The Russians (and most of the rest of the world) believed Russia had built up their strength over the last 8 years. It seemed very real.

I, also, believed Russia would win in 2 weeks.
 
anonymoose said:
Which is why I’m actually considering voting for trump. He’s the only candidate that would be willing to talk with Putin. It’s time.
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Putin is repeatedly been offered an off ramp of negotiations.

The problem is that so many bills would come due at the end of the war, Russia would collapse. He cannot accept an end of the war.
 
Scott said:
Glad we're now on the same page in regards to negotiations with Russia. Some people seem willing to continue to risk World War III for what I think amounts to misteps mostly made by western Ukraine and the western powers that backed it.
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We are almost to the point where there will be no negotiations....there will be only the unconditional surrender of Ukraine.
 
Walt said:
Russia planned to seize Kyiv in a few days in February of 2022. They intended to mop up the rest of Ukraine in the following days. They lost roughly half their special forces trying to do this.

Obviously, after this failed in February of 2022, everyone started questioning this prediction.

If anything, it seemed more possible in January of 2022 than in 2014. The Russians (and most of the rest of the world) believed they had compromised most of the leadership of Ukraine over the previous 8 years. The Russians (and most of the rest of the world) believed Russia had built up their strength over the last 8 years. It seemed very real.

I, also, believed Russia would win in 2 weeks.
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Bullshit....the forces The Russians went in with were maybe 10% of what was needed for that...at the time Ukraine had the second most powerful Army in Europe....it was defacto NATO and had been trained and built for 10 years by NATO.
 
The proof of what the Russians were after is in the Istanbul agreement.

Also WALT is a narrative warrior for the Regime....he almost never tells the truth.
 
Walt said:
Putin is repeatedly been offered an off ramp of negotiations.

The problem is that so many bills would come due at the end of the war, Russia would collapse. He cannot accept an end of the war.
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Anyone who is paying any attention at all knows that you are lying yet again.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
the forces The Russians went in with were maybe 10% of what was needed for that.
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I would say even less than 10%, but we are in basic agreement on the fact it was much less than what the Russians needed. The Ukrainians were stronger than the Russians estimated, and the Russians were weaker than anyone knew. This caused them to go in with less than they needed.

The question is how were we all so wrong about it.

Hawkeye10 said:
at the time Ukraine had the second most powerful Army in Europe
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It had about the same number of soldiers as France, Germany, UK, Italy, and Turkey each have, and about twice as many troops in Europe as the USA. But numbers are not everything. In terms of equipment and training, there are many other armies that were stronger than Ukraine. Both France and the UK have nuclear weapons of their own. That is a power that Ukraine just does not have.
 
Walt said:
I would say even less than 10%, but we are in basic agreement on the fact it was much less than what the Russians needed. The Ukrainians were stronger than the Russians estimated, and the Russians were weaker than anyone knew. This caused them to go in with less than they needed.

The question is how were we all so wrong about it.


It had about the same number of soldiers as France, Germany, UK, Italy, and Turkey each have, and about twice as many troops in Europe as the USA. But numbers are not everything. In terms of equipment and training, there are many other armies that were stronger than Ukraine. Both France and the UK have nuclear weapons of their own. That is a power that Ukraine just does not have.
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None of this is true.
 
Also even though Russia as a very multicultural society the hate of the Russians is in part racism....which is why the Bandera types call them orcs.
 
Scott said:
Glad we're now on the same page in regards to negotiations with Russia. Some people seem willing to continue to risk World War III for what I think amounts to misteps mostly made by western Ukraine and the western powers that backed it.
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Looks like Putin has no interest in negotiating now.

Institute for the Study of War

Russian President Vladimir Putin explicitly rejected Russian participation in any meaningful negotiations on a ceasefire agreement, instead demanding Ukraine's "irreversible" "demilitarization" as a precondition for any ceasefire agreement. Putin is thus
www.understandingwar.org www.understandingwar.org

Oh well.
 
Walt said:
Putin is repeatedly been offered an off ramp of negotiations.

The problem is that so many bills would come due at the end of the war, Russia would collapse. He cannot accept an end of the war.
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Putin is waiting for his pee pal Trump to win! Then Trump will have us funding Putin's war!
 
anonymoose said:
Looks like Putin has no interest in negotiating now.

Institute for the Study of War

Russian President Vladimir Putin explicitly rejected Russian participation in any meaningful negotiations on a ceasefire agreement, instead demanding Ukraine's "irreversible" "demilitarization" as a precondition for any ceasefire agreement. Putin is thus
www.understandingwar.org www.understandingwar.org

Oh well.
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When did he ever? He did not attack Ukraine to turn back. He cannot come home with nothing. That would be suicide.
 
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