Thomas Jefferson spent years raping his slave Sally Hemings...

Rana said:
Our Founding Fathers men with a great many flaws, but they did come up with the Constitution which is the thing they should be admired for doing.

Jefferson and his relationship with Hemings truly sickens me because he was supposedly conflicted about owning slaves but not enough to keep him from bedding one and maybe, she did comply, but really, did she ever feel she had a choice?
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That my friend is the corrupting and degenerate influence of slavery. Still the conclusions of the article are asinine as the don't take into consideration the historical, social and cultural context of that time which is not a fair representation by viewing the relationship of Hemmings and Jefferson anachronistically via the values and mores of our times.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That my friend is the corrupting and degenerate influence of slavery. Still the conclusions of the article are asinine as the don't take into consideration the historical, social and cultural context of that time which is not a fair representation by viewing the relationship of Hemmings and Jefferson anachronistically via the values and mores of our times.
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Was Tom proud of what he was doing to the young slave girl?
 
Lets not forget that the women they married were considered little more than owned chattel of their husbands who were required, by law to obey them..
Having sex with a slave in the 18th century was not as big of a leap as it may seem today.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Not impressed Christie. Though you'll get no argument from me about the evil of slavery and it's utterly degenerate and corrupting influence calling Jefferson a rapist is anachronistic as hell and thus intellectually dishonest.
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It's a novel and the author is laying out his case. And taking advantage of underage people who can't say no is not anachronistic.

Are you saying that because of the times, having sex with her would never be considered rape?
 
Leonthecat said:
Lets not forget that the women they married were considered owned chattel of their husbands that were required, by law to obey them..
Having sex with a slave in the 18th century was not as big of a leap as it may seem today.
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I have a hard time believing that forcing sex on a young girl was deemed acceptable in any era of American history.

Perhaps some of the apologists can cite some evidence that it was.

I'll understand if they can't.

Stay on topic, or this thread will be moved to the war zone, where you will find all threads that devolve to back and forth insults.
 
It most likely started out against her will, but she could have grown to love him. Different era and mentality.
 
Legion Troll said:
I have a hard time believing that forcing sex on a young girl was deemed acceptable in any era of American history.

Perhaps some of the apologists can cite some evidence that it was.

I'll understand if they can't.

Stay on topic, or this thread will be moved to the war zone, where you will find all threads that devolve to back and forth insults.
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Is there any evidence that Jefferson forced himself on Hemings, other than the fact that he "owned" her?
 
Leonthecat said:
Is there any evidence that Jefferson forced himself on Hemings, other than the fact that he "owned" her?
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Is there any evidence that she "was asking for it'? There's a reason why there is an age of consent.

You think a young girl who was literally owned by a larger, older man had a prayer of resisting his filthy attacks?


Stay on topic, or this thread will be moved to the war zone, where you will find all threads that devolve to back and forth insults.
 
Leonthecat said:
Is there any evidence that Jefferson forced himself on Hemings, other than the fact that he "owned" her?
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If she acquiesced, then let's talk about statutory rape in colonial times.

Colonial American statutory rape law basically imported this language [from English Common law.] Some states chose 10 as the age of consent, while others chose 12.

The idea behind such laws at the time was less about the ability or lack thereof to consent to such activity on the part of the female, and more about protecting white females and their premarital chastity—a commodity—as property (Fuentes 1994: 141; Eidson 1980: 760). The laws thus stated, as they still do today, that no crime has been committed if the female is the wife of the perpetrator.

Justice Brennan noted in Michael M. v. Superior Court of Sonoma County , the only Supreme Court case having to do with statutory rape law, that “because their chastity was considered particularly precious, those young women were felt to be uniquely in need of the state’s protection” (450 US 464 [1981] at 494–495). Females, in other words, were seen as “special property in need of special protection” (McCollum 1982: 355) and thus “statutory rape was a property crime” (Eidson 1980: 767).

This, in practice, only applied to white females. Black females were generally formally enslaved, and for a variety of political, economic, social, and cultural reasons their sexuality was not deemed to be in need of legal
protection. This manifested itself in several myths about the “natural” state of black female sexuality as being the opposite of the “natural” state of white female sexuality. While the latter were “chaste [and] pure” and on a “moral pedestal,”
the black female was promiscuous, impure, and lascivious. “This construct of the licentious temptress served to justify white men’s sexual abuse of black women” (Roberts 1997: 11).

While black female bodies were commodified,along with their childbearing capacity, their chastity was not.

http://www.sunypress.edu/pdf/60840.pdf
 
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For all we know, Ol' Tom molested his daughters, too. He started on Sally when she was 14, by all accounts.


Stay on topic, or this thread will be moved to the war zone, where you will find all threads that devolve to back and forth insults.
 
Legion Troll said:
Is there any evidence that she "was asking for it'? There's a reason why there is an age of consent.

You think a young girl who was literally owned by a larger, older man had a prayer of resisting his filthy attacks?


Stay on topic, or this thread will be moved to the war zone, where you will find all threads that devolve to back and forth insults.
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No she wouldn't. I think it was deplorable that Jefferson owned any slaves at all. He didn't need to rape one to become deplorable.
There is no excusing any of it.
 
Leonthecat said:
No she wouldn't. I think it was deplorable that Jefferson owned any slaves at all. He didn't need to rape one to become deplorable.
There is no excusing any of it.
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We are of one mind, Leon my brother.

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Legion Troll said:
For all we know, Ol' Tom molested his daughters, too. He started on Sally when she was 14, by all accounts.


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Sheesh, I wouldn't go that far. He had a whole plantation to pick from.
 
christiefan915 said:
Sheesh, I wouldn't go that far. He had a whole plantation to pick from.
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Low-hanging fruit.

Like quite a few of today's "patriots", he could've convinced himself that the little girls were at fault for "tempting" him, couldn't he?

Stay on topic, or this thread will be moved to the war zone, where you will find all threads that devolve to back and forth insults.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That my friend is the corrupting and degenerate influence of slavery. Still the conclusions of the article are asinine as the don't take into consideration the historical, social and cultural context of that time which is not a fair representation by viewing the relationship of Hemmings and Jefferson anachronistically via the values and mores of our times.
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Plenty of Founders were capable of discerning. Of course, most of them were Federalists.
 
Konono said:
You just can't stop trolling that poster. You're a sick person.
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He is an incredibly sick bastard who puts up a PC persona yet thinks it smart to call a poster's wife a whore. All right thinking posters should call the arsehole out as well as his cohort Leon Twat.
 
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