Thousands beaten, raped in Irish reform schools

WinterBorn said:
The muslim terrorists are not hidden by a central organization. Their activities are not denied by any central organization. They are not transfered to other places and put in the exact same positions by the central organization. And the victims and witnesses have not been paid by the central organization to remain silent about the crimes.


The catholic church has gone to great lengths to hid pedophiles. They have transfered known pedophiles to places where their past crimes are unknown and put into the exact same positions of authority that allowed them to commit the crimes in the first place. The catholic church has bribed victims and witnesses in order to silence the accusations.

If this were a political party you would call all who support it responsible as well.

But since it is a church, the people who supported the crimes, hid the crimes, and paid vast sums to keep things quiet are supposed to get a free pass? And those people who are members of the churches, give freely to the churches, and support the churches are not responsible at all?

I'm sorry but I can't agree with that. Any organization I belong to will not act in such a manner. And if they do I will withdraw my support completely.
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Yep, I think the catholic church should have been criminally prosecuted under the organized crime laws.
No politicos have the balls to do what was in this case though.
Victims had to resort to civil lawsuits.
 
christiefan915 said:
Bashing any church or religion is different from bashing only those members who give it a bad name. Not all Catholics are abusers. Not all Muslims are terrorists. I've see this distinction blurred repeatedly over the years.
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Those members that stood quietly by and gave the Papacy no heat for such poor decisions and protection of vile acts with children are also complicit. All evil needs to succeed is for good people to do nothing, there was much of that happening.
 
Whomever said:
Yep, I think the catholic church should have been criminally prosecuted under the organized crime laws.
No politicos have the balls to do what was in this case though.
Victims had to resort to civil lawsuits.
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I think using RICO laws against a worldwide religious institution would have caused a constitutional crisis and would have been foolish.
 
WinterBorn said:
...

The catholic church has gone to great lengths to hid pedophiles. They have transfered known pedophiles to places where their past crimes are unknown and put into the exact same positions of authority that allowed them to commit the crimes in the first place. The catholic church has bribed victims and witnesses in order to silence the accusations. ....
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Some Dioceses have, not the Church.
 
Southern Man said:
Some Dioceses have, not the Church.
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fine line there. Are not Dioceses in and run churches?

I guess you mean the Vatican by the church? And if they knowingly hid pedo priests then they are guilty as well.
I find it hard to believe that they (the Vatican) did not know this was going on.
 
Whomever said:
fine line there. Are not Dioceses in and run churches?

I guess you mean the Vatican by the church? And if they knowingly hid pedo priests then they are guilty as well.
I find it hard to believe that they (the Vatican) did not know this was going on.
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Its a huge hierarchy spanning several continents. The crap with the Boston Diocese a few years back had me disappointed in Vatican oversight. When Bishop from Boston knelt down to kiss the Pope's ring, The Pope should have reached over and pulled the Bishop's funny hat off. I honestly think that he would have if he had been a younger man at the time. But at that time he could barely talk, and he clearly didn't have the energy to deal with the situation as he should have.
 
Southern Man said:
Some Dioceses have, not the Church.
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In any organization, if there are repeated violations of law and the perpetrators are not punished (especially if they are aided in avoiding punishment), the entire organization is held responsible.

I am not blaming all catholics. But the church itself (catholic church as an organization) is responsible. The moving of priests from one area to another in order to avoid prosecution and doing nothing to prevent the same things from happening makes them a partner in that crime.

They also paid victims and witnesses to remain quiet.
 
WinterBorn said:
In any organization, if there are repeated violations of law and the perpetrators are not punished (especially if they are aided in avoiding punishment), the entire organization is held responsible.

I am not blaming all catholics. But the church itself (catholic church as an organization) is responsible. The moving of priests from one area to another in order to avoid prosecution and doing nothing to prevent the same things from happening makes them a partner in that crime.

They also paid victims and witnesses to remain quiet.
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Its common to make out-of-court settlements. Again, it's a large international organization.
 
This is an interesting article from the Dallas Daily News http://www.dallasnews.com/cgi-bin/bi/dallas/2002/priests.cgi

"Roughly two-thirds of top U.S. Catholic leaders have allowed priests accused of sexual abuse to keep working, a systematic practice that spans decades and continues today, a three-month Dallas Morning News review shows."




There were at least 10,667 minor victims accusing 4,392 priests of abuse between 1950 and 2002. That is a serious number. And there have been many within the catholic church organization that critisised the vatican for the failure to respond.
 
Southern Man said:
How many molestation charges were leveled against public schools in the US alone in a similar time period?
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Does that really matter? Is it ok if other did it too?

Besides the charge was made that bashing the catholic church is the last politically correct form of bigotry. The points I have been making were answering that charge.
 
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WinterBorn said:
Does that really matter? Is it ok if other did it too?

Besides the charge was made that bashing the catholic church is the last politically correct form of bigotry. The points I have been making were answering that charge.
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So basically you admit that you are simply bashing Catholics?
 
Southern Man said:
So basically you admit that you are simply bashing Catholics?
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I see that you do not wish to address the issue.

No I am not "simply bashing catholics". I am expressing my disgust at the catholic church on this issue.

You were defending the catholic church.

Are you square on where this debate is now?
 
Southern Man said:
How many molestation charges were leveled against public schools in the US alone in a similar time period?
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How many of them were deliberately hidden and univestigated then moved to new places to continue raping ever increasing numbers of new victims? How many instances were the teachers protected against being named as they were never arrested or investigated by any source other than the non-existant non-government entity of "schools"? And after they were uninvestigated, how many of the kids were paid off Michael Jackson style and told to shut up in the agreement, knowing that many parents would accept this crappy deal in order to not force their child to have to publicly admit the rape by the teacher?
 
Southern Man said:
So basically you admit that you are simply bashing Catholics?
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There is nothing wrong with "bashing" an organization that deliberately hid and housed people who would victimize children, never turning them into the police, nor even just firing them, all to just move them to a new place where uninformed parents would have to go through the same thing.

There is no excuse good enough for this action, not even "God Forgives".
 
WinterBorn said:
I see that you do not wish to address the issue.

No I am not "simply bashing catholics". I am expressing my disgust at the catholic church on this issue.

You were defending the catholic church.

Are you square on where this debate is now?
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To ignore the molestation that has occurred in the public school system while railing against the Catholic Church for the same thing is indeed Catholic bashing.
 
Damocles said:
How many of them were deliberately hidden and univestigated then moved to new places to continue raping ever increasing numbers of new victims? How many instances were the teachers protected against being named as they were never arrested or investigated by any source other than the non-existant non-government entity of "schools"? And after they were uninvestigated, how many of the kids were paid off Michael Jackson style and told to shut up in the agreement, knowing that many parents would accept this crappy deal in order to not force their child to have to publicly admit the rape by the teacher?
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I don't have a clue how many teachers the teacher's union and school boards protected. *shrug*
 
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