Thousands beaten, raped in Irish reform schools

You are trying to deflect the topic away from the church.

No one is defending the public school teachers who molested kids.

The original post is about a catholic run set of schools and reformatories that systematically abused kids. Then someone made the claim that bashing the church was the last politically correct form of bigotry.

Can we stay with the topic? If you want to start one concerning molestations of children in public schools that is fine. I will be happy to rail against those molesters too. If you can show me evidence of a systematic misuse of power to hide and deny the crimes I will rail against the organization as well.

But don't try and justify the enormous crimes of the church in aiding and abetting these perverts by trying to use the "but other people do too!" line of bullshit.
 
Southern Man said:
To ignore the molestation that has occurred in the public school system while railing against the Catholic Church for the same thing is indeed Catholic bashing.
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I railed against a specific instance and included the organization that has continually aided the molesters.
 
Southern Man said:
I don't have a clue how many teachers the teacher's union and school boards protected. *shrug*
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And there you have the difference. We know that the Catholic Church systematically protected those who would victimize children.

It brings a twisted and sick meaning to the words, "Suffer the little children come to Me."...
 
Go stand by Tutu, you both give the same ridiculous comments all the time.
 
WinterBorn said:
Does that really matter? Is it ok if other did it too?

Besides the charge was made that bashing the catholic church is the last politically correct form of bigotry. The points I have been making were answering that charge.
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The comments were mine, in answer to this post:

frequent assaults and humiliation designed to make them feel worthless.[end quote]

"I thought that's what Catholocism was all about."

Ca·thol·i·cism (k-thl-szm)
n.
The faith, doctrine, system, and practice of a Catholic church, especially the Roman Catholic Church.

Where in Catholic dogma, doctrine, theology, patristics, ecumenical councils, canon law, catechism, scripture, traditions or liturgy is the acceptance and approval of abuse?

Catholicism didn't taint the abusers, they along with all the aiders and abettors of the abuse tainted the religion.

The poster bashed Catholicism the religion with his bigoted comment. I hope we're finally clear on this.
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Damocles said:
Catholicism drew more of these people to itself by hiding those they knew were pedophiles.

People act as if pedophiles never talk to each other, like sick crap like NAMBLA doesn't exist, as if marriage stops this kind of thing they suggest it wouldn't have happened if they just allowed the Priests to marry... None of that crap is true.

NAMBLA does exist, groups of pedophiles meet and talk about the best ways to ply their wares and places where they can go for access and protection, and the vast majority of pedophiles are married and "straight" (sick fricking bastages are anything but straight).

When Priests were protected by the Church, pedophiles knew they could be protected too. This creates a draw, they are in a place with access and a powerful entity that will protect them from public notice and prosecution.

Sick crap.

(And yes, this part is for you Jarod: Even letting these sick people marry wouldn't stop this so long as the church is willing to hide this "blemish" on their public image and protect these Animals from prosecution they would simply marry and use that as additional camouflage of their sick sexual deviancy...)

As for the abuse by Buddhists in your link, I will note that it is rarely children (in fact I've read many of the names and offenses and have yet to see one who victimized children) and that Buddhists turn in the offenders. The rules set by The Buddha for Monks and Priests clearly state that this is one of the most egregious offenses they could commit as they victimize the trust inherent in the orange robe, and punishment is also directed whereby they are to turn them in and cast them out of the Monastery.

I will also note that a large portion of the "buddhists" in your link are really Hindi and not Buddhists at all and a good chunk are simply people who call themselves something they never practiced. It would be like calling Charlie Manson a "christian", I mean he does say he is Jesus Christ...

Those Buddhists who abused the trust of people who came to them for help were thrown out of the Monasteries, and turned into police.
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Your post tells me you understand what I said, that it's the abusers, not the religion itself who are to be criticized.

Bud·dhism (bdzm, bdz-)
n.
1. The teaching of Buddha that life is permeated with suffering caused by desire, that suffering ceases when desire ceases, and that enlightenment obtained through right conduct, wisdom, and meditation releases one from desire, suffering, and rebirth.
2. The religion represented by the many groups, especially numerous in Asia, that profess varying forms of this doctrine and that venerate Buddha.

Ca·thol·i·cism (k-thl-szm)
n.
The faith, doctrine, system, and practice of a Catholic church, especially the Roman Catholic Church.
 
Damocles said:
And there you have the difference. We know that the Catholic Church systematically protected those who would victimize children.

It brings a twisted and sick meaning to the words, "Suffer the little children come to Me."...
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And we don't know how many perverts the school system protected, because people are all too happy to demonize the Church.
 
christiefan915 said:
Your post tells me you understand what I said, that it's the abusers, not the religion itself who are to be criticized.

Bud·dhism (bdzm, bdz-)
n.
1. The teaching of Buddha that life is permeated with suffering caused by desire, that suffering ceases when desire ceases, and that enlightenment obtained through right conduct, wisdom, and meditation releases one from desire, suffering, and rebirth.
2. The religion represented by the many groups, especially numerous in Asia, that profess varying forms of this doctrine and that venerate Buddha.

Ca·thol·i·cism (k-thl-szm)
n.
The faith, doctrine, system, and practice of a Catholic church, especially the Roman Catholic Church.
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What it tells you is that if the Buddhists systematically covered the behinds of the sick bastards who victimize children, protected them from prosecution by silencing their accusers, and then simply moved them elsewhere to victimize more children then it would be the "Church" leadership that would be open to criticism. Buddhists everywhere would be looked at differently.

And as an apologist, that you use non-equitable victims and even members that are not of the religion on your link to make a false similarity. In short, when trying to say that Buddhists had this problem to, you gave a link that had adult victims, not children.

I don't criticize the religion or blame the religion, I blame the people who reacted in a way that victimized more children... the leaders.

I can't imagine how dirty I would feel to have been "blessed" and had my confession heard by a Priest who was victimizing children. I'd feel even worse if I found out that he was transferred there after he had been caught in another diocese.
 
WinterBorn said:
...

No one is defending the public school teachers who molested kids.....
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Bullshit- they get a pass while you and your ilk Catholic bash.

Any institution that has allowed children to be harmed by predators deserves to be taken to task for it. No institution should get a pass. And no profession should get a pass. Not preachers, not priests — not even teachers.

Especially not teachers. And yet …

Consider the statistics: In accordance with a requirement of President Bush’s No Child Left Behind Act, in 2002 the Department of Education carried out a study of sexual abuse in the school system.

Hofstra University researcher Charol Shakeshaft looked into the problem, and the first thing that came to her mind when Education Week reported on the study were the daily headlines about the Catholic Church.

“[T]hink the Catholic Church has a problem?” she said. “The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests.”

So, in order to better protect children, did media outlets start hounding the worse menace of the school systems, with headlines about a “Nationwide Teacher Molestation Cover-up” and by asking “Are Ed Schools Producing Pedophiles?”

No, they didn’t. That treatment was reserved for the Catholic Church, while the greater problem in the schools was ignored altogether.
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/24/opinion/main1933687.shtml
 
Southern Man said:
Bullshit- they get a pass while you and your ilk Catholic bash.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/24/opinion/main1933687.shtml
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A pass? My ilk?

You want to try and steer this away from the catholic church's involvement? Hate it for you.

The thread started with a story about a 9 year investigation into allegations of abuse. Did you bother to read that or did you go straight for the "You and your ilk are bashing these poor church people" bullshit?

You want to compare public schools with the church? Did you read the Dallas newspaper article I quoted?

"Roughly two-thirds of top U.S. Catholic leaders have allowed priests accused of sexual abuse to keep working, a systematic practice that spans decades and continues today, a three-month Dallas Morning News review shows."

Two-thirds?? You think any other organization has a comparable record??



If you want to start a thread about public school molestations I will join in bashing them.

But what you have done here is to try and deflect the blame. You have tried to remove the catholic church from the discussion. You want to maintain the illusion of innocence of the church. Your defense of the systematic enabling of the abuse is disgusting. Do you feel no outrage at the use of your money for bribing victims to be quiet? Do you feel no shame for the continual abuse by those you supported?
 
May 22, 1:37 PM EDT

3 more names on Iowa diocese's sexual abuse list

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) -- Three more names have been added to a list of credible cases of child sexual abuse by priests in an Iowa diocese.

The Diocese of Davenport added William Kerrigan, James Lawrence and Daniel Emrich to the list Thursday, bringing to 31 the number of priests and brothers named by the diocese.

Release of the names is a provision of a settlement for the diocese to emerge from the bankruptcy protection it sought because of its clergy sex abuse scandal.

A bankruptcy judge approved a plan in May 2008 allowing the diocese to pay $37 million to more than 150 people who said they were sexually abused.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CHURCH_ABUSE_IOWA?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

31 priests ind brothere in the diocese of davenport Iowa? How many can they have there anyway?
This Diocese should end!
 
Whomever said:
May 22, 1:37 PM EDT

3 more names on Iowa diocese's sexual abuse list

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) -- Three more names have been added to a list of credible cases of child sexual abuse by priests in an Iowa diocese.

The Diocese of Davenport added William Kerrigan, James Lawrence and Daniel Emrich to the list Thursday, bringing to 31 the number of priests and brothers named by the diocese.

Release of the names is a provision of a settlement for the diocese to emerge from the bankruptcy protection it sought because of its clergy sex abuse scandal.

A bankruptcy judge approved a plan in May 2008 allowing the diocese to pay $37 million to more than 150 people who said they were sexually abused.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CHURCH_ABUSE_IOWA?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

31 priests ind brothere in the diocese of davenport Iowa? How many can they have there anyway?
This Diocese should end!
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Yes, let's ban the Catholic church based on allegations that are automatically assumed to be true, without evidence. Certainly nothing constitutionally wrong with that.
 
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charver said:
I think you may be confusing him with a Christian Brother.
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My late brother used to go to a Jesuit run secondary school, in the 60s, in Essex. They had a charming instrument called a ferula which was a strip of whalebone covered with leather, those guys were fucking sadists and I thank the Lord that I failed the selection interview.
 
WinterBorn said:
A pass? My ilk?

You want to try and steer this away from the catholic church's involvement? Hate it for you.

The thread started with a story about a 9 year investigation into allegations of abuse. Did you bother to read that or did you go straight for the "You and your ilk are bashing these poor church people" bullshit?

You want to compare public schools with the church? Did you read the Dallas newspaper article I quoted?

"Roughly two-thirds of top U.S. Catholic leaders have allowed priests accused of sexual abuse to keep working, a systematic practice that spans decades and continues today, a three-month Dallas Morning News review shows."

Two-thirds?? You think any other organization has a comparable record??



If you want to start a thread about public school molestations I will join in bashing them.

But what you have done here is to try and deflect the blame. You have tried to remove the catholic church from the discussion. You want to maintain the illusion of innocence of the church. Your defense of the systematic enabling of the abuse is disgusting. Do you feel no outrage at the use of your money for bribing victims to be quiet? Do you feel no shame for the continual abuse by those you supported?
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I'm not deflecting blame, just putting it in perspective. The public school, system is 100 times more guilty- if your agenda is to protect kids, then put them on trial first. If your agenda is to bash Catholics, then proceed as normal.
 
tom prendergast said:
My late brother used to go to a Jesuit run secondary school, in the 60s, in Essex. They had a charming instrument called a ferula which was a strip of whalebone covered with leather, those guys were fucking sadists and I thank the Lord that I failed the selection interview.
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Sounds like you had a lucky escape.

I notice that the new Archbishop of Westminster delivered a damning indictment of the Irish abuse scandal, calling the perpetrators "brave" for admitting their rapes and beatings. I'm sure we'd all like to shake these paedophile abusers by the hand and offer our own warm congratulations if only they hadn't sued the enquiry team to ensure no names were included in the final report.

I also find it a little strange that there doesn't seem to have been any equivalent investigation into the church's abuses in England.
 
Watermark said:
Yes, let's ban the Catholic church based on allegations that are automatically assumed to be true, without evidence. Certainly nothing constitutionally wrong with that.
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Why I said earlier that criminal prosecutions should be pursued.
Priests would not lie under oath would they?
 
Southern Man said:
I'm not deflecting blame, just putting it in perspective. The public school, system is 100 times more guilty- if your agenda is to protect kids, then put them on trial first. If your agenda is to bash Catholics, then proceed as normal.
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Has the public school system had two-thirds of their top leaders allow teachers accused of child abuse to continue working? Have two-thirds of the public school's top leadership worked to transfer a teacher to another school system after they have been accused, so the teacher could continue to work in the same situation where they committed their crimes?

In every case I know about the school administrators worked to remove child abusers. If there are exceptions you can point them out. But that still does not excuse the organization of the catholic church. And that is what I am bashing. And I will continue to do so.

All you have done is defend their acts with "other people do it too!".
 
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