Thousands beaten, raped in Irish reform schools

Southern Man said:
Yes, but the Vatican has not done what you have accused.
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What?

Instructing bishops to cover up cases of sexual abuse under threat of excommunication?
The Vatican instructed Catholic bishops around the world to cover up cases of sexual abuse or risk being thrown out of the Church.
The Observer has obtained a 40-year-old confidential document from the secret Vatican archive which lawyers are calling a 'blueprint for deception and concealment'. One British lawyer acting for Church child abuse victims has described it as 'explosive'.

The 69-page Latin document bearing the seal of Pope John XXIII was sent to every bishop in the world. The instructions outline a policy of 'strictest' secrecy in dealing with allegations of sexual abuse and threatens those who speak out with excommunication.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/aug/17/religion.childprotection
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And the current Pope apparently agreed that it was still in effect in 2001.
 
charver said:
What?

Instructing bishops to cover up cases of sexual abuse under threat of excommunication?


And the current Pope apparently agreed that it was still in effect in 2001.
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We should invade and occupy the Vatican.
They were/are a major axis of evil.

I am only half joking.

What would have been the reaction had this been a muslim document/doctrine?
 
Whomever said:
We should invade and occupy the Vatican.
They were/are a major axis of evil.

I am only half joking.

What would have been the reaction had this been a muslim document/doctrine?
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Considering the views of women by much of the muslim world and our continued catering to them, I doubt it would be an issue.
 
tom prendergast said:
You have to remember that they were different times, my parents were poor Irish immigrants to England and they knew that you needed a good education to get on in the world. The former Jesuit school had and still has an excellent reputation for academic excellence. We were also caned at primary school and that was run by nuns, they subscribed strongly to the ethos that the devil needed to be beaten out of children.

I believe it was the Jesuits that said "give me the boy till the age of seven and I will show you the man"
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I apologize if it seemed there was implied criticism. When I was in school and told my parents about the punishments, they automatically took the side of the nuns or priests, and I'd get smacked at home in addition to getting it at school. Most of us kids quickly learned to toe the line and keep our heads down rather than misbehave. Of course not all of the teachers were harsh, but one tends to remember those above the rest.
 
christiefan915 said:
I apologize if it seemed there was implied criticism. When I was in school and told my parents about the punishments, they automatically took the side of the nuns or priests, and I'd get smacked at home in addition to getting it at school. Most of us kids quickly learned to toe the line and keep our heads down rather than misbehave. Of course not all of the teachers were harsh, but one tends to remember those above the rest.
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Don't worry about it, you're right they weren't all sadists by any stretch of the imagination in fact some of the lay teachers could be just as nasty.
 
charver said:
What?

Instructing bishops to cover up cases of sexual abuse under threat of excommunication?


And the current Pope apparently agreed that it was still in effect in 2001.
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It sounds like a typical memo to keep your mouth shut and let the lawyers handle it. I have one from my liability insurer that instructs me to do the exact same thing if I screw up on a project.
 
Southern Man said:
A cover-up yet to be proven; in other words, spin.
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The report seems to verify and accept the testimony of thousands of former students and officials.

"The commission said overwhelming, consistent testimony from still-traumatized men and women, now in their 50s to 80s, had demonstrated beyond a doubt that the entire system treated children more like prison inmates and slaves than people with legal rights and human potential."

"Overwhelming" and "consistent" are the two words that mattered.

And since the church has been shown to coverup in numerous cases to call it spin is nuts.



The church has a history of covering up for pedophiles and the overwhelming and consistent testimony of thousands of former students and officials combine to make it quite credible.

"Spin" would be what you have tried to do in all but your first post in this thread.
 
WinterBorn said:
The report seems to verify and accept the testimony of thousands of former students and officials.

"The commission said overwhelming, consistent testimony from still-traumatized men and women, now in their 50s to 80s, had demonstrated beyond a doubt that the entire system treated children more like prison inmates and slaves than people with legal rights and human potential."

"Overwhelming" and "consistent" are the two words that mattered.

And since the church has been shown to coverup in numerous cases to call it spin is nuts.



The church has a history of covering up for pedophiles and the overwhelming and consistent testimony of thousands of former students and officials combine to make it quite credible.

"Spin" would be what you have tried to do in all but your first post in this thread.
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Gee former students in a reform school complaining about their former teachers. Did they say that the nuns rapped them on the knuckles with rulers?:rolleyes:
 
Southern Man said:
Gee former students in a reform school complaining about their former teachers. Did they say that the nuns rapped them on the knuckles with rulers?:rolleyes:
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Gee "The commission said overwhelming, consistent testimony from still-traumatized men and women, now in their 50s to 80s, had demonstrated beyond a doubt that the entire system treated children more like prison inmates and slaves than people with legal rights and human potential.".

Maybe you know some 50 to 80 year olds who hold grudges from their childhood but I don't. And certainly not large numbers of them consistently saying the same thing.
 
WinterBorn said:
Gee "The commission said overwhelming, consistent testimony from still-traumatized men and women, now in their 50s to 80s, had demonstrated beyond a doubt that the entire system treated children more like prison inmates and slaves than people with legal rights and human potential.".

Maybe you know some 50 to 80 year olds who hold grudges from their childhood but I don't. And certainly not large numbers of them consistently saying the same thing.
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There is a reason why they were in reform school to begin with- bad character.
 
Southern Man said:
It sounds like a typical memo to keep your mouth shut and let the lawyers handle it. I have one from my liability insurer that instructs me to do the exact same thing if I screw up on a project.
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Oh that is very weak.

You couldn't do better than that?

You sound like you could have had a promising career in the Church yourself as an "official spokesman", defending the indefensible, accusing people of "bashing Catholics" while, at the same time, denigrating the suffering of the very Catholics who were, in the main, the actual victims.
 
charver said:
Oh that is very weak.

You couldn't do better than that?

You sound like you could have had a promising career in the Church yourself as an "official spokesman", defending the indefensible, accusing people of "bashing Catholics" while, at the same time, denigrating the suffering of the very Catholics who were, in the main, the actual victims.
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Why is it weak? That is a policy almost uniform in this litigious world. If someone accuses you of something you keep your mouth shut and let your lawyer handle it.
 
Southern Man said:
Why is it weak? That is a policy almost uniform in this litigious world. If someone accuses you of something you keep your mouth shut and let your lawyer handle it.
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Heaven forbid that you'd have to pay a $50 excess on your kiddy-fiddling insurance.
 
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