Althea
Althea told me...........
Cute. You've yet to display even a cursory understanding of the topic. Anecdotes about fantasy discussions you've had mean nothing. Show us you understand the law, or stick to the racist threads.
Trump Lied
- Thread starter PoliTalker
- Start date
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello rjhenn,
I would be willing to compromise with something like that.
But ultimately there is no competition with Single Payer. The payment is not determined by the free market, which is itself not allowed to fleece people in need to medical care.
Health care workers are ultimately working for the people they are providing care to. And the people's representatives should be the ones to determine the amount, based on the demand for those workers, and the available supply. And the government has every right to fortify the supply with newly trained workers from government schools who would be motivated to perform positive work for a worthy salary. I understand this would be a radical change from what we have now, so I am willing to compromise for the time being with a Single Payer system.
I just don't hear that word 'compromise' coming from any Republicans.
I would be willing to compromise with something like that.
But ultimately there is no competition with Single Payer. The payment is not determined by the free market, which is itself not allowed to fleece people in need to medical care.
Health care workers are ultimately working for the people they are providing care to. And the people's representatives should be the ones to determine the amount, based on the demand for those workers, and the available supply. And the government has every right to fortify the supply with newly trained workers from government schools who would be motivated to perform positive work for a worthy salary. I understand this would be a radical change from what we have now, so I am willing to compromise for the time being with a Single Payer system.
I just don't hear that word 'compromise' coming from any Republicans.
Althea
Althea told me...........
That was what ACA corrected. Cost sharing is the foundation of every type of insurance. Everyone pays in order to keep costs affordable for those who are ill, while encouraging insurance companies to cover everyone in return.
Feds made guarantees to the insurers via cost sharing language. (same as they have for Medicare forever). As part of the law, it bypassed appropriations by Congress.
That was the first thing Boner successfully killed in court, and subsequently removed funding for. The Feds fucked insurance companies for millions, driving a dozen start ups out of business and creating rate hikes throughout the industry.
By design.
PE conditions will always be a killer for insurers. That's always going to be the hard part about any new plan. The recently killed mandate was the trade off for insurers in exchange for PE coverage.
Show that i dont.
Althea
Althea told me...........
You already have in your own thread
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Republicans don't have a very good track record for implementing good health care policy.
Oh, well just show us the fine, fine Republican plan. They have had 10 years to refine that plan. Lets see it. Remember when Trump said, "who knew healthcare was so complicated". That shows you what level that blundering fool is at. The reds have no plan other than keeping a system in place until they have the votes to eliminate all social programs. Then the reds will win.
Damn, do Repubs deny the impending 2nd great depression Repub/Bush policies put us in? It was a scary as hell time with the Reds crippling and threatening the entire economy. Obama had to fix that mess and he did. He left Trump a thriving and growing economy that Trump immediately took credit for.
I wonder how reds can rewrite history so badly. Is that something Fox Gnus says? Is it Infowhores? It certainly is not facts.
Obama was addressing the debt at the end, when the economy could handle it. Trump did the red thing. Cut taxes and increased spending. He added another 2 trillion to the debt.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Gonzomin,
Longer than that.
" "In the 25 years I served in the United States Congress, Republicans never, ever, one time, agreed on what a healthcare proposal should look like. Not once,"
Guess who that was?
John Boehner, after he retired and doesn't have to care about toting the party line.
You know, the whole idea of the personal mandate to fund a capitalist for-profit health care system?
A REPUBLICAN IDEA.
Democrats adopted it in hopes that some Republicans would vote with them.
Fools.
Republicans don't think for themselves. They are party first, America second.
Longer than that.
" "In the 25 years I served in the United States Congress, Republicans never, ever, one time, agreed on what a healthcare proposal should look like. Not once,"
Guess who that was?
John Boehner, after he retired and doesn't have to care about toting the party line.
You know, the whole idea of the personal mandate to fund a capitalist for-profit health care system?
A REPUBLICAN IDEA.
Democrats adopted it in hopes that some Republicans would vote with them.
Fools.
Republicans don't think for themselves. They are party first, America second.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
I bet you can inform us of the Republican healthcare plan. It has been 10 years, I am sure they have a great plan, the greatest of all time. Lets hear it.
They were all published and even noted on these forums.
If you are unaware of them perhaps your sources for current events is lacking.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Celticguy,
That's a lame answer.
The Republican ideas were all over the place. None of them gained traction because each was rife with serious deal-killer level issues.
Boehner said (now that he is retired and doesn't have to suck up to campaign donors any more) in his 25 years in Congress not once did the Republicans present a single plan that they could rally behind.
It should come as no wonder that people don't want to scrap a plan that is working for millions so that Republicans can take whiffs at something that doesn't exist - that 'better' Republican plan!
Repeal and replace involves two steps. The first step alone does not fix the problem. All it does is hurt people. It doesn't do anyone any good.
That's a lame answer.
The Republican ideas were all over the place. None of them gained traction because each was rife with serious deal-killer level issues.
Boehner said (now that he is retired and doesn't have to suck up to campaign donors any more) in his 25 years in Congress not once did the Republicans present a single plan that they could rally behind.
It should come as no wonder that people don't want to scrap a plan that is working for millions so that Republicans can take whiffs at something that doesn't exist - that 'better' Republican plan!
Repeal and replace involves two steps. The first step alone does not fix the problem. All it does is hurt people. It doesn't do anyone any good.
Actually it does FAR more people good than harm.
For that reason alone it should come as no surprize that most want it gone.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Celticguy,
So all you really want to do is repeal?
What good will it do to throw out the law that required insurance companies to cover everyone despite any preexisting conditions?
So all you really want to do is repeal?
What good will it do to throw out the law that required insurance companies to cover everyone despite any preexisting conditions?
Obamacare needs to die because it was a shitty idea, passed along straight party lines and the person who led that charge, Pelosi, didn't even know what was in the bill.
In addition, it has never lived up to all the lies used to pass the bill. Costs continue to rise, many lost their plans and their doctors and no one is healthier as a result of it.
It will allow them to write plans that suit the varying needs of the public. It will eliminate forced reporting of your and my personal health information to Uncle Sam (for what purpose we dont know and in violation of HIPPA).
Among much else.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Celticguy,
Those concerns do not outweigh the life or death situation of those with preexisting conditions who would be instantly dropped by greedy insurance companies if the ACA is repealed.
Those concerns do not outweigh the life or death situation of those with preexisting conditions who would be instantly dropped by greedy insurance companies if the ACA is repealed.
Pre existing is the only incentive that is effective in getting people covered. Do something to make care affordable to improve proper decisions regarding buy/dont buy.
When care got needlessly expensive the young and healthy stopped buying ins which even the ACA recognized as being vital.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Celticguy,
You are correct in identifying a big problem in the USA. Low wage workers are unable to afford health insurance. Health care coverage has become a luxury only available to the richer classes. This is not a failure of socialism. This is a failure of capitalism. The health care industry has become more focused on profit-taking than on care-providing. The health care industry has become more about increasing profits than about providing health care where it is needed.
Capitalism caused this problem. Capitalism has no solution to this problem. The ACA was created to address this problem because capitalism couldn't do it.
The real lesson is that the capitalist profit-seeking approach is wrong for making health care available to everyone. The only way to provide health care to everyone is for it to be a socialized system.
Trump dangled a false promise in front of voters when he said “I am going to take care of everybody."
It sounded too good to be true. It was suspect from the start because there were no details. Trump had no plan, just empty words. But he correctly identified what the nation wants. The nation wants everybody to to be taken care of when it comes to health care.
Before the ACA rates were lower (they were still unaffordable to many) because people with pre-existing conditions were simply refused coverage. Insurance companies did not pay for their treatment, so they often simply died for lack of enough money to pay for care. Many Americans knew or were related to people caught in this capitalist nightmare, and were adamant that had to be fixed.
The ACA forced insurers to offer coverage to everybody. It also sought to provide financial assistance to those who still could not afford coverage. Understandably, this caused an increase in rates for others.
Republicans looked for any way to destroy Obamacare and make it fail. They found it by challenging the crucial part of it which required everyone to buy in. Without that part of the law the rates have risen and will continue to rise. This leads to a system which is not much better than before the law. Health care is still prohibitively expensive, and the powerful executives of big insurance and big pharma are still getting fabulously rich at the expense of everyday working Americans and tax payers.
This leads us right back to the premise that capitalism is simply not right for health care.
Health care needs to be a basic right, guaranteed by our country, and provided by government. Everyone should be taxed to pay for it, according to their ability to pay. By removing the big profit-takers from the equation, the cost will be as low as possible. Since health care will no longer be tied to work, more entrepreneurship will flourish. Without the need to provide health insurance to workers, small businesses will be freed up to become more competitive, especially with foreign companies which are not burdened with health care costs.
When everyone has health coverage, there will be fewer sick people, and a healthier more productive nation.
Sometimes the socialist approach is better and more appropriate than the capitalist one. Certainly on a national scale this is true.
Several candidates are promoting a Public Option for health coverage. This is the ultimate test of doing something for profit or seeing if government can do it better. If the profit motive leads to so much more efficiency that the profits can be paid for by the payers, and it still comes out cheaper, then they should have nothing to fear from a government-provided plan which will not be burdened by the need to turn a profit, and instead can operate at cost. But instead of putting their money where their mouth is, conservatives fear the Public Option, for obvious reasons.
It only stands to reason that two essentially identical systems, where one has to add in the cost of profit-taking, and the other does not, will show that the non-profit system is more affordable to the user.
That is what scares the capitalists, and why they fight so strongly against the Public Option. But if what they say is true, that the profit-motive leads to a much more efficient system, then they should be willing to let it stand the ultimate test. If they are unwilling, then it shows they do not believe their own words.
You are correct in identifying a big problem in the USA. Low wage workers are unable to afford health insurance. Health care coverage has become a luxury only available to the richer classes. This is not a failure of socialism. This is a failure of capitalism. The health care industry has become more focused on profit-taking than on care-providing. The health care industry has become more about increasing profits than about providing health care where it is needed.
Capitalism caused this problem. Capitalism has no solution to this problem. The ACA was created to address this problem because capitalism couldn't do it.
The real lesson is that the capitalist profit-seeking approach is wrong for making health care available to everyone. The only way to provide health care to everyone is for it to be a socialized system.
Trump dangled a false promise in front of voters when he said “I am going to take care of everybody."
It sounded too good to be true. It was suspect from the start because there were no details. Trump had no plan, just empty words. But he correctly identified what the nation wants. The nation wants everybody to to be taken care of when it comes to health care.
Before the ACA rates were lower (they were still unaffordable to many) because people with pre-existing conditions were simply refused coverage. Insurance companies did not pay for their treatment, so they often simply died for lack of enough money to pay for care. Many Americans knew or were related to people caught in this capitalist nightmare, and were adamant that had to be fixed.
The ACA forced insurers to offer coverage to everybody. It also sought to provide financial assistance to those who still could not afford coverage. Understandably, this caused an increase in rates for others.
Republicans looked for any way to destroy Obamacare and make it fail. They found it by challenging the crucial part of it which required everyone to buy in. Without that part of the law the rates have risen and will continue to rise. This leads to a system which is not much better than before the law. Health care is still prohibitively expensive, and the powerful executives of big insurance and big pharma are still getting fabulously rich at the expense of everyday working Americans and tax payers.
This leads us right back to the premise that capitalism is simply not right for health care.
Health care needs to be a basic right, guaranteed by our country, and provided by government. Everyone should be taxed to pay for it, according to their ability to pay. By removing the big profit-takers from the equation, the cost will be as low as possible. Since health care will no longer be tied to work, more entrepreneurship will flourish. Without the need to provide health insurance to workers, small businesses will be freed up to become more competitive, especially with foreign companies which are not burdened with health care costs.
When everyone has health coverage, there will be fewer sick people, and a healthier more productive nation.
Sometimes the socialist approach is better and more appropriate than the capitalist one. Certainly on a national scale this is true.
Several candidates are promoting a Public Option for health coverage. This is the ultimate test of doing something for profit or seeing if government can do it better. If the profit motive leads to so much more efficiency that the profits can be paid for by the payers, and it still comes out cheaper, then they should have nothing to fear from a government-provided plan which will not be burdened by the need to turn a profit, and instead can operate at cost. But instead of putting their money where their mouth is, conservatives fear the Public Option, for obvious reasons.
It only stands to reason that two essentially identical systems, where one has to add in the cost of profit-taking, and the other does not, will show that the non-profit system is more affordable to the user.
That is what scares the capitalists, and why they fight so strongly against the Public Option. But if what they say is true, that the profit-motive leads to a much more efficient system, then they should be willing to let it stand the ultimate test. If they are unwilling, then it shows they do not believe their own words.