Until We Find ONE WMD in Iraq, Republicans Should Really Calm Down About “Obamacare"

Firsr Saddam gassed the Kurds and killed about 5000 Iraqis, now that is a WMD or Weapon Of Mass Destruction. He had that giant 600 mile cannon from that guy who later got assassinated, another WMD. There were three ships sailing away aimlessly, where did they go, undoubtedly to Syria to unload the WMD. If we did not "get" Saddam, just what would he be doing now, could we take that chance after 911?

Read Poet's posts, he starts using the "B" word, the "F" word, the "C" word and the "N" word all the time. You are pissing up the wrong tree Crashy, butt of course I just got your goat good, so I will now add you to my list of Lib jackasses who I routinely dominate...LOL...TOUCHE'

Operations DESERT SHIELD and DESERT STORM resulted in the total destruction of the Iraqi Navy. US Naval forces literally eliminated the Iraqi Navy and projected power ashore. Coalition surface combatants, helicopters, carrier-based aircraft, and land-based P-3s all contributed to the destruction of more than 100 Iraqi vessels. The Iraqi Navy had 19 ships sunk and 6 vessels damaged.

As of late 2002, of the units that remained, most were in a poor state of repair, seldom operate even for training purposes, and the crews were estimated to be in a poor state of readiness...
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/navy.htm

If 3 ships aimlessly sailed to Syria how did they get there? Around the horn, past Gibraltar and thru the Med? Thru the Suez with the Kennedy sitting there? or overland thru the desert? You're so full of shit.

We know they gassed the Iranians we sold them the gas. Look it up.

Oh and it's a fact Saddam had nothing to do with 911, remember?
 
As of late 2002, of the units that remained, most were in a poor state of repair, seldom operate even for training purposes, and the crews were estimated to be in a poor state of readiness...

But Barbara Boxer said this in November 2002...didn't she?


“Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement.” — Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

And Robert Byrd said this in October 2002, didn't he?

“The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability.” —
Robert Byrd, October 2002
 
BS. Saddam was being contained by the UN sanctions, and presented no threat. Karl Rove's design to make "W" a "wartime president to rival his father was the bottom line...but as Cheney disastrously concluded, we would be
welcomed as liberators with leis thrown round our necks, and be back home in time for Xmas. As fate and karma would have it , the exact opposite happened....to the tune of tens of thousands of lives. I use he B, F, C, words but never the N-word( so you just lied, again...)..because I'm calling you what you act like and "are", and Newsflash, you
have never dominated anyone here? Ad hominem attacks? Is supposed to be you definition of dominance?????
Bitch, please. The only thing you can dominate is your own dick, and you probably fuck that up.
I know who I dominate and you are at the top of the sheet list along with your cohor, CoalBlack, who has been hiding from me lately because he is tired of getting his ass handed to him, like I am doing to you Right now...LOL...What is that rediculous "NIG" photo at the bottom of your posts supposed to represent, is that all you gots? Now, I hope that you don't follow CoalBlack into a hole, no pun intended......I WIN AGAIN...I was in the Army, the guys with the biggest dicks were not Black, its all Lib BS, my two brothers(REAL) confirmed it when they both went into the ARMY, so keep it up, no pun intended...OMYAss..another SJJRSJJS victory, keep on pushin SJJ.....
 
Identical? Hardly

If I were to say that I have no doubt that the Red Sox will win the series again next year, that is a statement of my opinion and cannot, therefore, be a LIE. If, on the other hand, I were to say that no doubt exists anywhere that the Sox will repeat, that is a statement of fact, and it IS a lie, because I know that there are, indeed plenty of doubts about that topic, and stated that none existed. A false statement that I would KNOW to be false when making it.

Lots of people expressed their opinions about Saddam's WMD stockpiles. Only ONE democrat - Al Gore after he left office - stated that their existence was an absolute certainty like Bush and his team repeatedly did.

Gore was speaking for himself, not making claims about others.....
If thats what he thought, what he believed, whats your point....he thought their existence was an absolutely certainly...therefore, he told the truth as he believed it to be.........whether he was correct or incorrect is irrelevant....thats called a mistake...

Your lack of understanding of English is extraordinary...You say, "If, on the other hand, I were to say that no doubt exists anywhere that the Sox will repeat, that is a statement of fact, and it IS a lie'.......

....your addition of the words "exists anywhere" adds to the claim....it becomes two different claims and considering that, you may have a tiny point in the
way you express it............you cannot possibly know what exist everywhere and cannot reasonably make that claim....BUT....its still not a lie....
at worst, it can be said to be hyperbole...reasonable people understand what hyperbole is....Reasonable people KNOW you cannot foresee the future.........an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

Can you wait 'an eternity'....? obviously not....is it a lie ?...again, obviously not....its hyperbole....but then, neither Gore nor Bush said such a thing. They spoke for
themselves, not others.
..

English Primer-3rd grade
--------------


if in fact you believe what you say is true, it cannot be a lie...
Its irrelevant if your correct or incorrect....its impossible to lie about something that has yet to happen....
You can only lie about something YOU KNOW is false, you MUST have the intent to deceive and hid what you know is the truth in order to lie.
Reasonable people KNOW you cannot foresee the future....
 
President Bill Clinton (D)
Vice President Al Gore (D)
Sec. of State Madeline Albright (D)
Nat. Sec. Adviser Sandy Berger (D)
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D)
Sen. Bob Graham (D)
Sen. Carl Levin (D)
Sen. Tom Daschle (D)
Sen. John Kerry (D)
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D)
Sen. Robert Byrd (D)
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D)
Rep. Henry Waxman (D)
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D)
All told us, for years, that Saddam had WMD's.......but when G. Bush said the same thing, he lied.......:whoa:that logic is astonishing....


All those in the above list made statements of fact as they believed the facts to be....

If they used words like "maybe" in their statements, I could say they were expressing opinions...they were not....they were expressing the facts as they
perceived them to be....its irrelevant that some were more adamant than others...
 
Gore said the NSA spying is disgraceful, too, didn't he?

I must have missed Admiral Mexicanmans post about that...


I'm thankful I'm not a school teacher....trying to pound the fact that 1+1=2 in the head of an imbecile must be as
taxing as teaching mexicanman basic English....
 
I know who I dominate and you are at the top of the sheet list along with your cohor, CoalBlack, who has been hiding from me lately because he is tired of getting his ass handed to him, like I am doing to you Right now...LOL...What is that rediculous "NIG" photo at the bottom of your posts supposed to represent, is that all you gots? Now, I hope that you don't follow CoalBlack into a hole, no pun intended......I WIN AGAIN...I was in the Army, the guys with the biggest dicks were not Black, its all Lib BS, my two brothers(REAL) confirmed it when they both went into the ARMY, so keep it up, no pun intended...OMYAss..another SJJRSJJS victory, keep on pushin SJJ.....

what does this incoherent, rambling almost-paragraph have to do with anything? Show me more info on the 3 ships. Backup your stupidity with some real facts and links. The only thing you win is the dipshit award for today and you wear it well.

Dumb as a fence post, but at least a fence post has a purpose.
 
All those in the above list made statements of fact as they believed the facts to be....

If they used words like "maybe" in their statements, I could say they were expressing opinions...they were not....they were expressing the facts as they
perceived them to be....its irrelevant that some were more adamant than others...

and when George Bush said "THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT SADDAM HAS STOCKPILES OF WMD's"... that was a statement of fact that he KNEW to be false, because he was well aware of the existent of the very doubt within his own intelligence community that he claimed did not exist.

your willful failure to understand the nuances of our language has long been established.

you're dismissed.
 
I know who I dominate and you are at the top of the sheet list along with your cohor, CoalBlack, who has been hiding from me lately because he is tired of getting his ass handed to him, like I am doing to you Right now...LOL...What is that rediculous "NIG" photo at the bottom of your posts supposed to represent, is that all you gots? Now, I hope that you don't follow CoalBlack into a hole, no pun intended......I WIN AGAIN...I was in the Army, the guys with the biggest dicks were not Black, its all Lib BS, my two brothers(REAL) confirmed it when they both went into the ARMY, so keep it up, no pun intended...OMYAss..another SJJRSJJS victory, keep on pushin SJJ.....
You delusional bitch. STFU. You can dominate my dick, is what you can do. Just watch the teeth. And LOLOLOLOLOLOL. Keep telling yourself that. Why the fuck do they say, "once you go black, you never go back"? Do you watch porn? Why is it more exciting to see big black dick penetrate white pudenda? Because you types can't keep the fuck up, with your little pee pees. I don't fucking care what anecdotes you bring. Who fucking believes anything you print. You have lied that you dominate any forum members, so your story about your brothers is yet another lie.
 
what does this incoherent, rambling almost-paragraph have to do with anything? Show me more info on the 3 ships. Backup your stupidity with some real facts and links. The only thing you win is the dipshit award for today and you wear it well.

Dumb as a fence post, but at least a fence post has a purpose.

Now that's how you own or Pwn a bitch. Well-said. And he's too stupid to find a rock to hide under. What a joke.
 
It's always fun to watch the righties trip over themselves trying to give the Dems "credit" for the Iraq War.

Really shows you how successful they really think it was.
 
and when George Bush said "THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT SADDAM HAS STOCKPILES OF WMD's"... that was a statement of fact that he KNEW to be false, because he was well aware of the existent of the very doubt within his own intelligence community that he claimed did not exist.

your willful failure to understand the nuances of our language has long been established.

you're dismissed.

You don't even comprehend what you own post claims.....Bush was not speaking for anyone but himself, he certainly did not say "there is no doubt in the US Intelligence community, etc, etc"...........so its irrelevant if there was one person or anyone held different beliefs, ie, that had doubts
.....which is a claim YOU can't make with any certainty....thats what is known as conjecture; the formation of conclusions from incomplete evidence; guess....thats what you do to satisfy your preconseived beliefs.....
(what if his chefs grandson didn't believe Saddam had wmd and Bush was aware of that, wtf difference would it make? Hes not speaking for the chefs grandson.

A speaker speaks for himself unless he specifically says otherwise, ie, includes others in some claim........


President Bill Clinton (D)
Vice President Al Gore (D)
Sec. of State Madeline Albright (D)
Nat. Sec. Adviser Sandy Berger (D)
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D)
Sen. Bob Graham (D)
Sen. Carl Levin (D)
Sen. Tom Daschle (D)
Sen. John Kerry (D)
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D)
Sen. Robert Byrd (D)
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D)
Rep. Henry Waxman (D)
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D)
President Bush

You could make that same stupid, narrow-minded claim about any or all of these people concerning what they said about Saddam, Iraq and WMD. Its quite irrelevant
to what degree they professed certainty.....I doubt any of them said anything that they did not whole-hearted believe to be true....
Even I'm not partisan to claim all Democrats are liars....especially about Saddam....the claims
they made in their public statements over all those years tells me, they believed what they claimed.....
As a matter historical fact....Saddam having wmd was believed by just about every government in the Western World, and there is no doubt thats especially true
about the United States....Oops...did I just lie?
The fact that Bush made the same claim, and irrelevant though it is, with the same certainty as some of the Democrats, proves to reasonable people, beyond a shadow of a doubt, he is no more lying than those Democrats....

I say, "There is no doubt that Pres. Bush was not lying when he claimed that Saddam had wmd"......is that a lie because you believe otherwise....?
what you believe is irrelevant to what claims I or others make about anything.....I can be right or wrong, but I can't be lying.

So, because you're proving to be a dolt and simpleton with 3rd grade English comprehension, I'm sad to inform you, that you just don't qualify for 4th grade level
work in this subject....I believe that you can find plenty of uneducated and illiterate Mexican peons what can surely help get a grasp on the fact that
declarative statements usually mean EXACTLY what they say, while at the same time considering that a deliberate exaggeration could be used for effect (hyperbole), or
an expression that uses words in a nonliteral way, like a metaphor, or in an unusual way.
 
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Other than the pinheads in denial, do you think we'll all forget these claims by Democrats all whining about Saddam and WMD...long before Bush was elected..???

“[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.” — From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998

“This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.” — From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others

“Whereas Iraq has consistently breached its cease-fire agreement between Iraq and the United States, entered into on March 3, 1991, by failing to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction program, and refusing to permit monitoring and verification by United Nations inspections; Whereas Iraq has developed weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological capabilities, and has made positive progress toward developing nuclear weapons capabilities” — From a joint resolution submitted by Tom Harkin and Arlen Specter on July 18, 2002

“Saddam’s goal … is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed.” — Madeline Albright, 1998

“(Saddam) will rebuild his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction and some day, some way, I am certain he will use that arsenal again, as he has 10 times since 1983″ — National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, Feb 18, 1998

“Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement.” — Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

“The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability.” — Robert Byrd, October 2002

“There’s no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat… Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He’s had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001… He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn’t have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we.” — Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002

“What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad’s regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs.” — Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

“The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow.” — Bill Clinton in 1998


And what do you say about the intelligence being fixed around the facts, after bush became president?

• As originally reported in the The Sunday Times, May 1, 2005 SECRET AND STRICTLY PERSONAL - UK EYES ONLY
DAVID MANNING
From: Matthew Rycroft
Date: 23 July 2002
S 195 /02
cc: Defence Secretary, Foreign Secretary, Attorney-General, Sir Richard Wilson, John Scarlett, Francis Richards, CDS, C, Jonathan Powell, Sally Morgan, Alastair Campbell
IRAQ: PRIME MINISTER'S MEETING, 23 JULY
Copy addressees and you met the Prime Minister on 23 July to discuss Iraq.

This record is extremely sensitive. No further copies should be made. It should be shown only to those with a genuine need to know its contents.

John Scarlett summarised the intelligence and latest JIC assessment. Saddam's regime was tough and based on extreme fear. The only way to overthrow it was likely to be by massive military action. Saddam was worried and expected an attack, probably by air and land, but he was not convinced that it would be immediate or overwhelming. His regime expected their neighbours to line up with the US. Saddam knew that regular army morale was poor. Real support for Saddam among the public was probably narrowly based.

C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.

CDS said that military planners would brief CENTCOM on 1-2 August, Rumsfeld on 3 August and Bush on 4 August.

The two broad US options were:

(a) Generated Start. A slow build-up of 250,000 US troops, a short (72 hour) air campaign, then a move up to Baghdad from the south. Lead time of 90 days (30 days preparation plus 60 days deployment to Kuwait).
(b) Running Start. Use forces already in theatre (3 x 6,000), continuous air campaign, initiated by an Iraqi casus belli. Total lead time of 60 days with the air campaign beginning even earlier. A hazardous option.
The US saw the UK (and Kuwait) as essential, with basing in Diego Garcia and Cyprus critical for either option. Turkey and other Gulf states were also important, but less vital. The three main options for UK involvement were:
(i) Basing in Diego Garcia and Cyprus, plus three SF squadrons.
(ii) As above, with maritime and air assets in addition.
(iii) As above, plus a land contribution of up to 40,000, perhaps with a discrete role in Northern Iraq entering from Turkey, tying down two Iraqi divisions.
The Defence Secretary said that the US had already begun "spikes of activity" to put pressure on the regime. No decisions had been taken, but he thought the most likely timing in US minds for military action to begin was January, with the timeline beginning 30 days before the US Congressional elections.
The Foreign Secretary said he would discuss this with Colin Powell this week. It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran. We should work up a plan for an ultimatum to Saddam to allow back in the UN weapons inspectors. This would also help with the legal justification for the use of force.

The Attorney-General said that the desire for regime change was not a legal base for military action. There were three possible legal bases: self-defence, humanitarian intervention, or UNSC authorisation. The first and second could not be the base in this case. Relying on UNSCR 1205 of three years ago would be difficult. The situation might of course change.

The Prime Minister said that it would make a big difference politically and legally if Saddam refused to allow in the UN inspectors. Regime change and WMD were linked in the sense that it was the regime that was producing the WMD. There were different strategies for dealing with Libya and Iran. If the political context were right, people would support regime change. The two key issues were whether the military plan worked and whether we had the political strategy to give the military plan the space to work.

On the first, CDS said that we did not know yet if the US battleplan was workable. The military were continuing to ask lots of questions.

For instance, what were the consequences, if Saddam used WMD on day one, or if Baghdad did not collapse and urban warfighting began? You said that Saddam could also use his WMD on Kuwait. Or on Israel, added the Defence Secretary.
The Foreign Secretary thought the US would not go ahead with a military plan unless convinced that it was a winning strategy. On this, US and UK interests converged. But on the political strategy, there could be US/UK differences. Despite US resistance, we should explore discreetly the ultimatum. Saddam would continue to play hard-ball with the UN.
John Scarlett assessed that Saddam would allow the inspectors back in only when he thought the threat of military action was real.
The Defence Secretary said that if the Prime Minister wanted UK military involvement, he would need to decide this early. He cautioned that many in the US did not think it worth going down the ultimatum route. It would be important for the Prime Minister to set out the political context to Bush.
Conclusions:
(a) We should work on the assumption that the UK would take part in any military action. But we needed a fuller picture of US planning before we could take any firm decisions. CDS should tell the US military that we were considering a range of options.
(b) The Prime Minister would revert on the question of whether funds could be spent in preparation for this operation.
(c) CDS would send the Prime Minister full details of the proposed military campaign and possible UK contributions by the end of the week.
(d) The Foreign Secretary would send the Prime Minister the background on the UN inspectors, and discreetly work up the ultimatum to Saddam.
He would also send the Prime Minister advice on the positions of countries in the region especially Turkey, and of the key EU member states.
(e) John Scarlett would send the Prime Minister a full intelligence update.
(f) We must not ignore the legal issues: the Attorney-General would consider legal advice with FCO/MOD legal advisers.
(I have written separately to commission this follow-up work.)
MATTHEW RYCROFT
 
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