Vicious Political Movement

Not even for my family does it cost that much. I carried my own insurance for a bit when changing companies, it does not cost that much and that is with three kids.

Jesus, Damo, what planet do you republicans live on?

I presume you have health insurance through your employer. Of course it doesn't cost you as much.

Have you tried to shop for a family insurance policy on the open market recently? Doesn't sound like it. The deductibles alone range into the thousands of dollars a year, the copays are high, and they only pay like 70 or 80% of clinical or hospital coverage.

1200 dollars a month is entirely reasonable for a family.

Do you guys really want to get into a contest about the Frost family lying again?? You wingnuts just got burned on that earlier this week. You sure you wanna go there again? ;)
 
Both adults and two kids, not just the two kids. The parents didn't have insurance through their employers, either. I think that our own HealthSelect would probably cost about that if the principal's (the employee's) premium wasn't covered.

From what I read it appeared that neither were working full time, so that is one avenue they could have gone down to increase their income. Also, they did have an investment property on top of their home. So I find it very hard to believe they could not have afforded a healthcare plan.
 
From what I read it appeared that neither were working full time, so that is one avenue they could have gone down to increase their income. Also, they did have an investment property on top of their home. So I find it very hard to believe they could not have afforded a healthcare plan.

You really must be joking. I make more than 45k, have no children, and I coudln't afford 1,200 a month for insurance.
 
Also, I forgot in my post above, individually obtained policies are a LOT more expensive than those obtained through employers through a group plan. A woman I know, healthy, no preexisting conditions at all, found that her individual health insurance coverage rose to $6,000 per month!!! when she turned 50. I don't know what company that was.

I think that depends on the type of policy you are offered in the group plan vs. the insurance that you actually need/want.

For families I think your above is probably accurate. But for individuals it may not be the case.
 
She could have just stopped spending her money on frivilous stuff and paid the premium instead of whining about it.

I guess she has to go to the movies instead of buying health insurance, and that's my problem.
While the cost of movies are so very equivalent to the cost of health insurance, it would be 'Cruel and Unusual' punishment to ask her to give that up along with her HBO and SHOWTIME.
 
Gee, thanks for verifying exactly what I said.

Emergency care doesn't mean shit to anyone with a catastrophic brain injury.

Or with cancer.

No matter what George bush tells you.

And...you are BILLED. And, you will pay. And if you don't pay, and have anything, it's gone.
This point is the most important. Non-insured still get billed. If you are idigent then it gets written off, but if you have a house or a car or a bank account or paycheck that can be garnished you will pay untill it is paid. And don't look to bankruptcy law anymore to bail you out. The changes have made it almost impossible to file bankruptcy. Depending on your state if you have equity in your home beyond the homestead exception, they can get a court to order you house sold to the highest bidder. If you have more than one care you own outright they can order all but one sold. They can garnish up to 25% of your wages and in community property states 25% of one half of your spouse's wages. So you choose, your childs health or the home your child need to live in so that his or her health gets better and not worse. It is a bullshit choice to have to make. Shit we just a divorce where the Husband is 86 and the wife 89. She is headed to a full care nursing facility in the next year or so and she does not want it to break him so they divorced and he got the house and she pays rent to him so the transfer does not appear fraudulent. If she didn't, the home they owned outright would be available for the payment of bills and in NM our homestead exemption is only $35,000 and their home is worth a bit over 400k.
 
Jesus, Damo, what planet do you republicans live on?

I presume you have health insurance through your employer. Of course it doesn't cost you as much.

Have you tried to shop for a family insurance policy on the open market recently? Doesn't sound like it. The deductibles alone range into the thousands of dollars a year, the copays are high, and they only pay like 70 or 80% of clinical or hospital coverage.

1200 dollars a month is entirely reasonable for a family.

Do you guys really want to get into a contest about the Frost family lying again?? You wingnuts just got burned on that earlier this week. You sure you wanna go there again? ;)
I was talking about when the employer wasn't paying for it. Or do you have comprehension problems today?

I said, "When I was changing companies and didn't have insurance I carried my own..." and so forth. So please, READ THE POST at least!

You have to be absolutely the worst about this. I admit that I can't read every post, but I at least read the one I am responding to.
 
You really must be joking. I make more than 45k, have no children, and I coudln't afford 1,200 a month for insurance.

No, I am not joking. From the article in the Times, it appears that NEITHER were working full time. Which means that they could have increased their income had one or both gone full time. Again, if they can afford an investment property but could not afford healthcare, then I am guessing they made a bad choice on where to invest.
 
This point is the most important. Non-insured still get billed. If you are idigent then it gets written off, but if you have a house or a car or a bank account or paycheck that can be garnished you will pay untill it is paid. And don't look to bankruptcy law anymore to bail you out. The changes have made it almost impossible to file bankruptcy. Depending on your state if you have equity in your home beyond the homestead exception, they can get a court to order you house sold to the highest bidder. If you have more than one care you own outright they can order all but one sold. They can garnish up to 25% of your wages and in community property states 25% of one half of your spouse's wages. So you choose, your childs health or the home your child need to live in so that his or her health gets better and not worse. It is a bullshit choice to have to make. Shit we just a divorce where the Husband is 86 and the wife 89. She is headed to a full care nursing facility in the next year or so and she does not want it to break him so they divorced and he got the house and she pays rent to him so the transfer does not appear fraudulent. If she didn't, the home they owned outright would be available for the payment of bills and in NM our homestead exemption is only $35,000 and their home is worth a bit over 400k.

That's heartbreaking. And despicable.
 
Don't let her fool you thorn.... Care is quite the troublemaker. :rolleyes:

OH NOOOOOOOOO!!!!


Hahahahahaha! You are "on to me" Superfreak!!! LOL

Seriously though Super, I know I can infuriate SOME, like you on certain issues, :D but BAN worthy? You KNOW, that I am not!

Care
 
No, I am not joking. From the article in the Times, it appears that NEITHER were working full time. Which means that they could have increased their income had one or both gone full time. Again, if they can afford an investment property but could not afford healthcare, then I am guessing they made a bad choice on where to invest.

It appears? It seems. Some people say.

Ok, whatever, they were eligible under their state law for SCHIPS and all of the lies that claimed otherwise, have been debunked.

What you think they should have been earning is really irrelevent.
 
This point is the most important. Non-insured still get billed. If you are idigent then it gets written off, but if you have a house or a car or a bank account or paycheck that can be garnished you will pay untill it is paid. And don't look to bankruptcy law anymore to bail you out. The changes have made it almost impossible to file bankruptcy. Depending on your state if you have equity in your home beyond the homestead exception, they can get a court to order you house sold to the highest bidder. If you have more than one care you own outright they can order all but one sold. They can garnish up to 25% of your wages and in community property states 25% of one half of your spouse's wages. So you choose, your childs health or the home your child need to live in so that his or her health gets better and not worse. It is a bullshit choice to have to make. Shit we just a divorce where the Husband is 86 and the wife 89. She is headed to a full care nursing facility in the next year or so and she does not want it to break him so they divorced and he got the house and she pays rent to him so the transfer does not appear fraudulent. If she didn't, the home they owned outright would be available for the payment of bills and in NM our homestead exemption is only $35,000 and their home is worth a bit over 400k.


That is so sad.
 
OH NOOOOOOOOO!!!!


Hahahahahaha! You are "on to me" Superfreak!!! LOL

Seriously though Super, I know I can infuriate SOME, like you on certain issues, :D but BAN worthy? You KNOW, that I am not!

Care

Anyone can infuriate SF. He is very emotional and overwrought. I find it attractive...you can tell he is really in touch with his feminine side.
 
OH NOOOOOOOOO!!!!


Hahahahahaha! You are "on to me" Superfreak!!! LOL

Seriously though Super, I know I can infuriate SOME, like you on certain issues, :D but BAN worthy? You KNOW, that I am not!

Care

Well personally, I have only run across one or two posters on any sites that I would consider ban worthy. You would most certainly not be one that I would ban.

Doniston I would have banned, but Damo wouldn't do it. Evil bastard that he is and all. :)
 
Anyone can infuriate SF. He is very emotional and overwrought. I find it attractive...you can tell he is really in touch with his feminine side.

LMAO.... ok, so you are saying that my "feminine" side is what gets me all emotional and overwrought??? Just remember... YOU are the one that said that.
 
Not completely accurate care. It is not a question of how much you sell, but the balance between supply and demand. Fixed costs may behave in the manner you suggest, but variable costs do not.

Ok, Super, let's talk this through....

you have an xray machine or a cat scan or an mri machine that the hospital has bought for diagnosis.

the more people sick and in need of these, the more they will use this machine and the cost of this machine to their overall business would be less as a percentage because they would have multiple people using it, right?

And the administrators and boards and all of that would also be fixed where their salary would be the same whther there were 100 patients or 150 patients.... so that too should bring overhead costs down as a percentage of over all business....right?

And medications, and supplies they may use or need to purchase should go down because they should be able to buy them with a bulk discount compared to a state with fewer patients and fewer sick, right?

sure their electric bill may go up but even this would not be an equal percentage increase with the increase of patients because in slow periods the lights are on in a hospital room, only with 1 paying patient verses with 2 paying patients....

So to me, I think they should still go down in cost per person, in this type of business.

I can understand what you are saying with an increased demand and no supply to support it would cause the rise, but I am uncertain if this is the case....?

And if it is the case Super, in any other business model in the free market a competitor would come in and produce more of the product, to grab the extra sales, no?

care

ps. if you answered this somewhere already, I will look for it.
 
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"Ok, Super, let's talk this through....

you have an xray machine or a cat scan or an mri machine that the hospital has bought for diagnosis.

the more people sick and in need of these, the more they will use this machine and the cost of this machine to their overall business would be less as a percentage because they would have multiple people using it, right?"

Theoretically, yes, the actual cost to buy the machine would be spread out over more patients. That is the fixed portion of the costs. But the more you use a machine, the more wear and tear you put on it. So you could also be spending more on the maintenance of the machine. These costs are variable. If a machine needs replacement every 5 years vs. every 7 years, that could send the costs right back up again.

"And the administrators and boards and all of that would also be fixed where their salary would be the same whther there were 100 patients or 150 patients.... so that too should bring overhead costs down as a percentage of over all business....right? "

Again, yes, these costs would be fixed. But the administrator would also likely be hiring more staff if the workload became too high.

"And medications, and supplies they may use or need to purchase should go down because they should be able to buy them with a bulk discount compared to a state with fewer patients and fewer sick, right?"

Not necessarily. It depends on how they are able to store the supplies.

"I can understand what you are saying with an increased demand and no supply to support it would cause the rise, but I am uncertain if this is the case....?"

Think of it this way. You have a finite amount of space in a hospital. Once you are at capacity, then you are essentially screwed. You either have to build more space or turn people away. You also have a finite amount of time. A doctor/nurse etc... can only work effectively for a certain period of time. After that period you either hire more staff or take the chances on higher incidence of malpractice.

"And if it is the case Super, in any other business model in the free market an competitor would come in and produce more of the product, to grab the extra sales, no?"

In many cases that would be correct. But in healthcare there are significant barriers to entry. If you don't have the ability to hire more doctors/nurses due to a lack of supply (which is the case) then your costs go up, because it forces hospitals to fight for their services.... which drives up labor costs.
care

ps. if you answered this somewhere already, I will look for it.

in bold above....

The final parts that matter are

1) the regulations that each state imposes.

2) advertising
 
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