Ways That Socialsm Can Be Better Than Capitalism

PoliTalker said:
Hello T. A. Gardner,



The dole is not an extravagant life. It is having the essentials covered. The motivation to have a better life is always present for those who chose to follow it.
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And, what of those that choose not to? The ones that game the system, or operate outside it but still expect their cut like criminals?

Ideally, those of us who are well off should not be REQUIRED to foot the bill for the least advantaged. We should WANT to to that. Makes the champagne and caviar less guilt-laden and ever more enjoyable to know that we can not only take care of our selves but those who cannot care for THEM selves.
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Ideally, rationally, and practically. Forcing people to be altruistic doesn't work. It motivates them to be exactly the opposite. Socialism creates greed among those who can and sloth among those that can't.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
And you don't believe in personal responsibility obviously.
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The term "believe in" is nebulous to me, TA. If you meant to ask me, "Do you think personal responsibility is a positive in a person or not"...I would answer with a strong, "Personal responsibility is a HUGE positive in a person." I have been personally responsible for myself from age 17 (when I left home to enter military service) until now...age 84. I admire it in people.

I also admire intelligence in people...but not everyone is intelligent. Some people are short-changed in the intelligence department.

I admire people who are physically strong...but some people are not physically strong.

I try to be understanding.


Those who chose not to plan ahead got what they wanted.
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Well, for people who refuse to see that some people are deficient in that area...often because of conditions into which they were born...that is a no-brainer. Kill people who do not provide for self...or let 'em die on the streets.


Why should that be something I or you should have to foot the bill for? As for those who can't, I think that would depend on the circumstances.
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A very meek concession...and it rings hollow with me. A bit more consideration for one's fellow human seems in order. You sound intelligent enough to see that.

Claiming that society as a whole has to provide a good standard of living to everyone, regardless of how little they contribute to it, is a common Socialist mistake. It breeds lazy and incompetent.
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Horseshit.

A decision by society to see that nobody has to starve, be subjected to the elements, deprived of reasonable healthcare, or be unreasonable deprived...is a mark of a decent, reasonable, intelligent, caring, sophisticated society.

Fighting against that is a sign of I'VE GOT MINE, FUCK YOU.

But...that is the mantra of American conservatism.

So...if you are okay with that...go with it.
 
Frank Apisa said:
You are not smart enough to own yourself.

I love ya, Yakuda. You provide me with more enjoyment than you can imagine.



images
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Good dog. I own you doggie. I command you to respond.
 
Cypress said:
My favorite short list of American socialism are:

Public libraries
NASA-space program
Public universities
Medicare
Green Bay Packers
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None of that is socialism.

Government funding is not socialism. Commonwealth is not socialism. Norway is not socialism. A military is not socialism. A public library is not socialism.

Venezuela, Cuba, the former Soviet Union, North Korea and Cambodia under Pol Pot are socialism.
 
IBDaMann said:
None of that is socialism.

Government funding is not socialism. Commonwealth is not socialism. Norway is not socialism. A military is not socialism. A public library is not socialism.

Venezuela, Cuba, the former Soviet Union, North Korea and Cambodia under Pol Pot are socialism.
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Norway is more socialist than Venezuela or communist China:
>> https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...-Better-Than-Capitalism&p=3928233#post3928233


The Republican Party considers European nations to be socialist:

Leading Republicans Refer to Western Europe as "Socialists"
Lately it seems that not a day goes by without a Republican presidential candidate portraying Europe as a socialist nightmare. Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum paint a picture of the Old World as unfree, strangulated by bureaucratic and inefficient welfare systems, and unable to reform and modernize. To these Republicans, Europe seems to be the antipode to everything America is meant to be.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.310f3f267a8a

Prominent Republicans Call Western Europe "Socialist"
Newt Gingrich has constantly accused the president of being a "European Socialist", often adding in a reference to an all-but-forgotten community activist from Chicago, who died in 1972, but whose Democratic-leaning writings are thought to have influenced the current president

"I am for the Declaration of Independence; he is for the writing of Saul Alinsky. I am for the Constitution; he is for European socialism," Mr Gingrich told voters in Florida last week.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16583813

Bill O'Reilly noted rightwing blowhard: Western Europe is basically socialist
"I received a letter from Rhonda Hallett who lives in Jacksonville, North Carolina asking me to define Bernie's doctrine of Democratic socialism. Ok. That's basically what some countries in western Europe have, a political system that limits personal income through taxation in return for cradle to grave payouts from the governments. That's the trade."
http://nation.foxnews.com/2016/02/14...atic-socialism

Mike Pence is on record referring to western Europe as "socialist".
when Representative Mike Pence, Republican of Indiana, denounced “European-style socialism,” in his speech at the conference on Thursday, the jeers from the crowd did not exactly signal an openness to debate it on the merits.
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/w...leibovich.html

European socialism taking root in US, Fox News's Stuart Varney says
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...us-varney-says

Rudy Giuliani Claims Europe is Socialist
In a preview of his Republican National Convention speech, Rudy Giuliani insisted that the United States does not “have to be a socialist country like Europe.”
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/08/ru...ve-to-be-a-socialist-country-like-europe/amp/
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Cypress said:
Norway is more socialist than Venezuela or communist China
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Nope. Norway is not socialist.

When did you subbenly come to believe that you are an expert on socialism? I hate to mention that you are clueless on the topic. Perhaps if you tell me what feature of Norway makes you think it is socialist I could explain your error. Otherwise your statement is patently absurd and you have been tooled.

Cypress said:
The Republican Party considers European nations to be socialist:
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When did you suddenly come to believe that you speak for the Republican Party?
 
IBDaMann said:
Nope. Norway is not socialist.

When did you subbenly come to believe that you are an expert on socialism? I hate to mention that you are clueless on the topic. Perhaps if you tell me what feature of Norway makes you think it is socialist I could explain your error. Otherwise your statement is patently absurd and you have been tooled.


When did you suddenly come to believe that you speak for the Republican Party?
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You are an obscure message board poster whose opinion carriers no weight in the realms of national public discourse. None. Nada. Zilch.

On the other hand, leading members of the Republican party - Presidential candidates, Vice Presidents, Congressional leaders, prominent conservative media voices - are all on public record stating that European nations like France, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, are socialist nations:

Leading Republicans Refer to Western Europe as "Socialists"
Lately it seems that not a day goes by without a Republican presidential candidate portraying Europe as a socialist nightmare. Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum paint a picture of the Old World as unfree, strangulated by bureaucratic and inefficient welfare systems, and unable to reform and modernize. To these Republicans, Europe seems to be the antipode to everything America is meant to be.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.310f3f267a8a

Prominent Republicans Call Western Europe "Socialist"
Newt Gingrich has constantly accused the president of being a "European Socialist", often adding in a reference to an all-but-forgotten community activist from Chicago, who died in 1972, but whose Democratic-leaning writings are thought to have influenced the current president

"I am for the Declaration of Independence; he is for the writing of Saul Alinsky. I am for the Constitution; he is for European socialism," Mr Gingrich told voters in Florida last week.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16583813

Bill O'Reilly noted rightwing blowhard: Western Europe is basically socialist
"I received a letter from Rhonda Hallett who lives in Jacksonville, North Carolina asking me to define Bernie's doctrine of Democratic socialism. Ok. That's basically what some countries in western Europe have, a political system that limits personal income through taxation in return for cradle to grave payouts from the governments. That's the trade."
http://nation.foxnews.com/2016/02/14...atic-socialism

Mike Pence is on record referring to western Europe as "socialist".
when Representative Mike Pence, Republican of Indiana, denounced “European-style socialism,” in his speech at the conference on Thursday, the jeers from the crowd did not exactly signal an openness to debate it on the merits.
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/w...leibovich.html

European socialism taking root in US, Fox News's Stuart Varney says
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...us-varney-says

Rudy Giuliani Claims Europe is Socialist
In a preview of his Republican National Convention speech, Rudy Giuliani insisted that the United States does not “have to be a socialist country like Europe.”
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/08/ru...ve-to-be-a-socialist-country-like-europe/amp/
Click to expand...
 
IBDaMann said:
Nope. Norway is not socialist.

When did you subbenly come to believe that you are an expert on socialism? I hate to mention that you are clueless on the topic. Perhaps if you tell me what feature of Norway makes you think it is socialist I could explain your error. Otherwise your statement is patently absurd and you have been tooled.


When did you suddenly come to believe that you speak for the Republican Party?
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Norway bread line:

IMG_20191031_132541.jpg


Venezuela bread line:

5310c92decad04be055385c2


Norway government food handouts...


Venezuela government food handouts...

13739988.jpg


People in Norway's prisons have it better than the average Venezuelan

Norway-prison.jpg


c0178c254d86c6ecd50e06bcfb5ae98a.jpg


(the Halden Prison supermarket for inmates)
 
Cypress said:
You are an obscure message board poster whose opinion carriers no weight in the realms of national public discourse. None. Nada. Zilch.

On the other hand, leading members of the Republican party - Presidential candidates, Vice Presidents, Congressional leaders, prominent conservative media voices - are all on public record stating that European nations like France, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, are socialist nations:
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you're so defeated, working this hard on a reply to an internet nobody.
 
Frank Apisa said:
The term "believe in" is nebulous to me, TA. If you meant to ask me, "Do you think personal responsibility is a positive in a person or not"...I would answer with a strong, "Personal responsibility is a HUGE positive in a person." I have been personally responsible for myself from age 17 (when I left home to enter military service) until now...age 84. I admire it in people.

I also admire intelligence in people...but not everyone is intelligent. Some people are short-changed in the intelligence department.

I admire people who are physically strong...but some people are not physically strong.

I try to be understanding.




Well, for people who refuse to see that some people are deficient in that area...often because of conditions into which they were born...that is a no-brainer. Kill people who do not provide for self...or let 'em die on the streets.




A very meek concession...and it rings hollow with me. A bit more consideration for one's fellow human seems in order. You sound intelligent enough to see that.



Horseshit.

A decision by society to see that nobody has to starve, be subjected to the elements, deprived of reasonable healthcare, or be unreasonable deprived...is a mark of a decent, reasonable, intelligent, caring, sophisticated society.

Fighting against that is a sign of I'VE GOT MINE, FUCK YOU.

But...that is the mantra of American conservatism.

So...if you are okay with that...go with it.
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so why do you support the evil manifested in oligarchical collectivism?
 
The problem with capitalism is that it did not manage corruption, and it stopped caring about the health of the society and it stopped considering itself a steward of civilization.

And now it dies, because performance always did matter.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
The problem with capitalism is that it did not manage corruption, and it stopped caring about the health of the society and it stopped considering itself a steward of civilization.

And now it dies, because performance always did matter.
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The real difference is that in the short-term, Capitalism can cause serious social and economic upheavals but in the long term it brings prosperity and social stability to the vast majority of that society. On the other hand, Socialism brings short-term social stability to society and causes serious long term social and economic upheaval that wrecks a society for decades, if not centuries.

What you need is a mix of the two with Capitalism being the dominant form of pressure on the economy. Mixing in limited Socialism, that society can sustain and afford, with a Capitalist economy probably works best. The problem is that those who believe in Socialism always push for more to the point they wreck the economy before it swings back to Capitalism. Most of Europe went through this from the end of WW 2 to about the 80's. Socialism is on the wain there and there has been a resurgence of Capitalism. The countries doing the worst are the ones that stuck with Socialism like Greece, Spain, and Italy.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
The real difference is that in the short-term, Capitalism can cause serious social and economic upheavals but in the long term it brings prosperity and social stability to the vast majority of that society. On the other hand, Socialism brings short-term social stability to society and causes serious long term social and economic upheaval that wrecks a society for decades, if not centuries.

What you need is a mix of the two with Capitalism being the dominant form of pressure on the economy. Mixing in limited Socialism, that society can sustain and afford, with a Capitalist economy probably works best. The problem is that those who believe in Socialism always push for more to the point they wreck the economy before it swings back to Capitalism. Most of Europe went through this from the end of WW 2 to about the 80's. Socialism is on the wain there and there has been a resurgence of Capitalism. The countries doing the worst are the ones that stuck with Socialism like Greece, Spain, and Italy.
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What we need is what we used to have....capitalists who cared about the rest of us...who did not devote themselves to skimming as much wealth off of the society as they can get away with.

At this point these crooks have ruined the name of capitalism...it is dead man walking.
 
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